Is NOED the NEW go to HEX?
I am not sure if this is the right place to post this but I am not sure where is the right place. I will say sorry if it is in the wrong place.
My question to fellow survivor mains or just people who play both roles have to noticed an increase in the use of NOED since Hex was changed? In my last 10 games and this is not an exaggeration, at least 7 killers used NOED. It is to the point I no longer go into a game without using the Small Game Perk and then just run around the map hunting down all the totems and hope my team can do the gens. I mean I do a gen if I can but my focus has become totems. I am personally getting burnt out on the NOED Perk because I feel like it is almost like a OH CRAP button for killers. I feel like Hex totem was even easier to counter than NOED because that totem is lit from the start.
I know just like hex totem they can be countered simply by breaking totems but that is also a issue because in my games I have seen survivors just walk past totems and because they are dull leave them. I actually had one game where a survivor opened the gate and could see the killer lifting another survivor on the other side of the map and he was standing next to the lit NOED totem and he decided to leave it and just walk out.
Sorry for the random rant or whatever just was wondering if it was just me or if other players or seeing a rise in this perks use as the go to perk now that Hex is reworked.
Comments
-
I think a lot of insecure Killers use NOED out of anger after the Ruin nerf. It really doesn't make sense as it's two completely different perks, though. I also find it ironic in intself, as Ruin really wasn't as effective as a lot of people say. As always, on red ranks it depended largely on what group you faced. If it was a well-organised SWF, Ruin would either be ignored or cleansed within the first minute - basically rendering it useless anyway. Against poor teams you would have won anyway.
The same goes for your argument with totem cleansing. Against good teams, the totems will be cleansed (or the match won't even get to the collapse).
3 -
I agree that Hex even before the rework was pretty useless. I was confused when they decided to rework it because they said it was to used and wanted to change things up but left BBQ alone? I mean Rancor is from what I see the same thing. When a gen pops you see survivors and BBQ is when you hook a survivor. Only difference is you get BP for BBQ.
I think they should have maybe moved the BP to Rancor and left all the perks alone at least then they would have got what they wanted and Rancor would be used and not BBQ. It is a dumb idea but just trying to shoot out some ideas.
I didn't mean to argue against or for totem cleansing. I am sorry if I did. I just was trying to say all my games I have teammates that won't cleanse them and just walk right past them and then later when NOED pops cry and run out the gate if they can. I just want one good team where they do a little bit of each thing. lol
0 -
No I hear you, I experience the same thing as I usually play solo. I bring Kindred every game to try and control it as much as possible, and cleanse totems myself to even things out. It's really all you can do, as ranks are no longer any indication of a player being skilled at all, unfortunately.
0 -
I see noed on oni nowadays.
2 -
I agree! I play solo as well. I have had all green rank players and watch as the entire team comes to save me as I have kindred on. They should see each other and a couple go to gens or something. The rank system is almost useless these days. I have more games where i do 4 gens and save and I end up the only one dead and it just makes me scream. I have seen games where I save a teammate and they make it to the actual edge of escape. I go to spectate and see them on a hook and am like #########?! You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. I just play for BP now and no plans on really getting out alive.
0 -
NOED has ALWAYS been a thing, ever since release.
Back in the day there were NOED vs Sprint Burst debates. Where people would argue NOED was needed to balance against sprint burst. Just think the same 'insightful' arguments you see now, just in a different timeline.
Anyway, long story short sprint burst isn't even particularly relevant anymore its been through that many nerfs. Compare NOED which has gone through a bunch of iterations, but I'd struggle to say it was ever nerfed at any point.
I guess my point being that for anyone that's been playing since release, NOED has been a regular cheese perk that gets mentioned by people such as yourself every now and then. But the devs maintain it.
I guess its just funny when you see killer mains complain about how survivor is favoured by the devs (lol). Because when you follow the NOED debate since release, for example, you cant make comments like that with a straight face, if you know what you're talking about.
0 -
I personally do not mind the use of NOED and have come to expect it but I am just burnt out because of it. When my team seems to flat out ignore totems and later as I am on the hook being ignored because of it just sit here and laugh because I knew it was gonna happen. It just makes me hate playing survivor and I just recently seen an incline in its use again.
0 -
What you've stated there is IT, in a nutshell basically. What you've described is literally par for the course. Killers maintain just cleanse it, but its based off maps, team mates and motivation to do it.
It's also worth pointing out that its a train wreck at low levels. New survivors can't even manage skill checks, let alone understanding what 'cleansing' is supposed to achieve.
It's definitely a cheese perk.
2 -
Exactly and when the ranks reset and I go from high to low ranks and play with other either low rank or 100% new players I get screwed. I cannot do all the gens and totems and also keep my low rank teammates off the hooks.
I mean I manage it and my husband laughs as he watches the three escape and I die and still get the most points.
The low ranks are just learning to do gens and do not even begin to think totems can be issues yet. They really only bother when its lit and that wont lit until the end and then they are running for the gate.
0 -
It's just not in their purview as new survivors, and it tells you something too, when your score is higher than those who have escaped. They need to learn what to do, but its brutal for new survivors. I honestly don't recommend this game to new people if they interested in playing survivor, they're going to be frustrated.
The devs metric is 2 kills and 2 escapes that they try to balance around, but they only apply this metric at higher tiers . With kills around 70% (its much worse for survivors at lower tiers), killers are FINALLY getting some push back. But I've seen NOED being a top tier perk since release and watched the devs skirt around the issue.
NOED is here to stay, lest they prove otherwise.
1 -
I love that you said "Killers are FINALLY getting some push back" and I loved how you said something to the other person on the Sabo Changes forum as well. I am seeing many Killer mains or people who claim to play both but favor killer complaining the Devs are Survivor mains and the game is already in survivor favor.
That is a crock of poop because in the past 2 or 3 days I am lucky if 1 of us gets out of the match alive and 2 survivors living gives me reason to celebrate. I got lucky once and all 4 got out but that was pure PURE luck.
If killer mains think they aren't favored our at least equal give survivors a oh crap perk like NOED. lol You really proved a point in that other forum and are very knowledgeable. =) I would like to pick your ear and learn about this more. lol
2 -
It may when playing weak killers because of a rubbish kit but stronger killers don't need it.
0 -
It's been funny watching the development of this game, purley from a psychological perspective.
It makes you realise terms such as 'group think' mentality.
Its amazing how many people really have no perspective beyond 'OP survivor, poor killer'. That once you start pointing things out and actually ARGUING their points, that the entire narrative breaks down.
It's so bad that I literally have points copy and pasted on file, just so I don't have to type out the EXACT same things over and over again........
Honestly I blame the devs and how they mismanaged things.
They never predicted that people would want to play with friends in an online game at release (serious). So at release 'lobby wars' started, where people would join lobbies, looking for their friends and would leave if they weren't there. It took FOREVER to find games due to this, hence why swf was created and suddenly you had coordinated groups in voice comms that completely destroyed the devs metric '2 kills, 2 survive'.
Since release its been nerf after nerf to survivor with little push back, till recently. Hence why killers in general are 'outraged' because they've literally never had to deal with any major nerfs till now.
If you can join some coordinated swf groups, you'll have a better run, but soloq is rough for survivors, it really is.
1 -
Ok, and hear me out, what if someone just likes NOED?
5 -
I haven't noticed an increase in NOED which surprises me. I figured even less people would do totems now with the Ruin change (I play on console, Ruin was incredibly strong). I've had a lot of games where I do four totems and die on my first hook to NOED, so I always run Small Game and prioritize totems because i know no one else does. I am still amazed by the amount of games where not a single teammate does even one totem. I usually do all five.
I played one game with Devour to see if I could get any use out of that perk after the Ruin change and it was cleansed within 30 seconds. Go figure.
There seems to be a decent amount of Haunted lately but it could just be because everyone completely stopped playing Spirit when she got changed and now she's back again because of the Tome. I actually missed Spirit so I'm glad to see her. I still think she's a strong killer, it's just possible for her to be countered now.
0 -
Devs took away Ruin that slowed down the start of the match and now act surprised when killers bring NOED for end game.
A lot of us said this was going to happen when the Ruin changes became known. It's the most logical outcome with matches going too quickly.
OP seems to be doing the appropriate action when facing muiltiple NOED users. Doing bones and not focus solely on holding M1 on gens.
2 -
Survivor rulebook rule #235 Killers can not support or like a perk survivors find unfun.
1 -
I've noticed a slight increase in it. I play close to 50/50 and view playing against NOED in a similar way I view DS. I've only really noticed an increase of NOED on Billy and Leatherface so if I'm playing them I make it a point to cleanse everything. It's like when playing killer if I see I have an obsession and I'm not running an obsession perk I assume that all four brought DS and adjust my play style accordingly. All that being said though I don't really play to survive unless I'm doing challenges that require it, otherwise it's just for fun.
0 -
Noed on Deathslinger is a must. Grabbing survivors stupid enough to wait at the exit gates. Turned a four escape into a 3 sacrifice. Pretty satisfying.
2 -
I'd suggest running Detective's Hunch instead. Far better for removing all the totems.
0 -
Nowadays, one little mistake as Killer costs all 5 generators against non-dumb survivors. There's absolutely nothing any killer can do against 4 survivors that split up, do gens and play optimally. Many killers are aware of that and want to at least try to secure one kill in the late game. It's a bet tho, most of the times I use NOED it gets cleansed within 20 seconds, just like old Ruin.
1 -
I honestly hate noed. I think it is cheap. But with each passing day I get closer to using it. At least one game a night I get a group of survivors who focus solely on gens and when you play certain killers or get certain maps you can't do anything about stopping a 4 minute game. People will ignorantly say "pressure gens" but many of us know how it goes. Normal groups who do totems when they see them etc are not an issue. But when it's the main goal to end a game as quickly as possible by all 4 survivors you may as well just stand still the entire match.
0 -
I honestly have nothing against using NOED and see it as a teaching tool to survivors to CLEANSE TOTEMS! I just get burnt out when 8 games in a row it was used. I also go into a game knowing I am not gonna make it out alive anymore and just focus on Saboing the hooks and totems for points. Then work on gens and healing and saving teammates. I will unhook the last survivor with BT just so they can escape and I die. It is not about getting out alive to me but having fun and NOED has kind of killed that for me.
I do understand using it though but overall just tired of seeing it like others were sick of seeing Hex Ruin. Hex Ruin never bothered me really even if left up.
0 -
I do not mind the use of the NOED totem but 8 games in a row is a bit much when you are playing with sometimes new players who can't even do gens. The odds of them focusing on totems is slim and I watched them actually ignore them.
I know personally when I play killer there is many other fun perks to use then the OH CRAP I AM NOT GOOD AT THE GAME NOW TO CAMP THE GATES AND ONE SLAP EVERYONE perk lol
0 -
it actually makes a lot of sense.
They brought Ruin to slow the game down, now they bring NoeD to force the survivors to do Totems aka slow the game down OR they will get punished for it, which is fine.
1 -
If survivors are so worried about finishing the gens as fast as possible instead of taking the time to cleanse only five totems, NOED is there to punish that. Cleanse totems. That’s the hard counter to NOED. Against optimal survivors, NOED isn’t usually a problem because all the totems are cleansed.
1 -
I haven't used NOED in over a year I think. Used to use it on freddy before his rework occasionally.
0 -
Exactly this. Both actually do have the same effect really, they both force survivors to look for totems, which slows down generator completion rates.
Also with how fast gens go now as slowdown perks are all reactive (pop requires a down and hook, tremors requires a down and no guarantee it stops anything, corrupt just takes three gens out of action for a while) most killers just accept that the game will come down to endgame with 2-3 survivors alive at minimum. NOED at least draws the endgame out a little and gives a killer time to mount a comeback.
Personally I'm lukewarm on NOED as it's not a fun perk from the killer side either, it does nothing until late game, it can be cleansed at any time, and when the last gen pops there is no guarantee it's going to net you anything other than 1 extra down. But in the current state of the game killers are looking for something, ANYTHING to slow down generator progression, and forcing totem cleansing is one of the few options left.
1 -
What else are we supposed to use. The survivors already took away ruin(the only thing that gave killers actual gen pressure)which like you said was easier to counter because it's up the whole game. Imagine using that perk when ruin wasn't awful. Probably would have helped a lot. But the devs listened to the survivors complain and where all to eager to oblige. And instead of seeing that 40% of players using the perk and asking WHY 40% of killers use ruin they said "okay rework it". And I can already tell in the next three months noed will be nerfed in some way because in this community the survivors are heard a lot louder then killers. And now killers are left with Devour Hope,Noed,The Third Seal,Huntress Lullaby,and Thrill of The Hunt and Haunted Grounds. Haunted Grounds and Thrill are just support for other hex perks, Huntress Lullaby is pretty easy to work through if you stay calm and focused and third seal is useless. Devour hope takes half a game to actually do something and if one survivor see it before youve hooked 3 people and break it its a waisted perk. Finnaly Noed is the only hex that cant be broken in the first 2 minutes of the game and you almost always know that now that gens are free game that their gonna get done like it or not so noed is a way to punish survivors for gen rushing and trying to escape as fast as possible. But most good teams just break as many hard to find one's they can find and if noed does pop up then they go to the ones that spawned in the open that they saw earlier in the game and break it. So Yeah....thats why killers use bored. Sorry it was long. But thats the answer to why.
1 -
Wasn't NOED already like in the top 2 used hex perks?
0 -
Wow. Someone is in rank 11 and cant get out because bad teammates. I dont know what you mean buy theirs plenty of other fun perks to use but ive played 2 reps of trapper, 1 rep of huntress and most characters are at close to 25-40 and from all the perks in the game their honestly arnt many good perks. Most of them are useless like missed attack recovery(thats only useful if your really new and are missing a lot which you shouldn't be doing if your decent), seeing peoples blood easier(if you pay better attention to the ground you can see the blood pretty well and plus just listen around and you'll hear them regardless), or the other dozens of perks that are either super situational(like monsterous shrine) or perks that ultimately arnt useful(cauliraphobiea........I doubt I spelled that right. Clowns perk.) The more questions about things like this make me think more and more that their is A LOT more people that play survivor and never touch killer for more than 20 levels than youd think.
0 -
We use noed because we try to balance the mess that devs left behind with the ruin nerf. It have nothing to do be "insecure" lol... Is about trying to have fun. Try to play from rank 8-1. Its 1 downed survivor, 1 gen that lights. Anyone that calls that balanced don't think straight.
0 -
I think it is the 1st sentence of the 1st paragraph of the 1st page of the rule book. The rule is written in all caps. So yeah, gotta follow the rule book ya know.
0 -
It's used about as much before. At least now though you don't get the crutch gamers that take the strongest killers with Ruin AND NOED. Hell I still remember all the bad players taking omegablink nurse, 5 blink nurse, instasaw billy, prayer beads spirit, iri head huntress - all with Ruin, NOED and an ebony mori on top.
Unless you're an absolute garbage player it was literally just "pick this build and win".
0 -
I think "ruin" was helpful when combined with other perks, even if it only slowed gens down occasionally against strong SWF teams. Also, using NOED doesn't make a killer insecure. End game builds can be fun, and surprising.
0 -
I am rank 1 as Killer every reset, usually within 2-3 days. Same with Survivor, as I play both parts. I don´t know who "we" are based on your comment, and what you are describing is not something I´m familiar with.
1 -
I play both sides, and I've definitely seen a lot more Noed as of late, but out of about 10 of the matches I was in yesterday there were only two killers who actually got some use out of it. Honestly, when I heard the Ruin change I just subbed it for Hex: Haunted Ground and it works just fine..
1 -
Isn't all totem perks are risky play anyway? You talk about situational perks but why take any totem perks if they can be easily beat as well. I am not a Rank 11. I am typically rank 8 to 7 and like I said I do not mind the use of NOED it is just tiring when you get put with low rank or new players who do not think to cleanse totems.
Also there are other fun perks. If you are worried about people getting out then use Rancor for when a gen pops you can see the survivors. That for one is a fun and good perk. I have used NOED once and thought wow this is cheap. I know that is my opinion but I stopped using it in favor of other perks. I wanted to teach myself to not depend on my oh crap I couldn't down any survivors let's hope NOED helps kind of game play. There are tons of perks that give vision all the time on Survivors without the use of NOED.
Also about the Rank 11 comment I guess if you play survivor you can't win. If you play with SWF people look down on you but if you play solo que like me and we all know how tough that can be you still get looked at for being a supposed cry baby. I do not mind playing with new people and in fact I like to try and teach them. I am just tired of being killed every match because I was babysitting. I guess really they should fix the rank system more than the actual game itself.
I mean look at the current NEW SABO Perk. I consider that to be the survivor NOED the way it is now and yet killers everywhere are crying. I think Sabo needs to be fixed before release because it is to strong. It is not okay if the killer can't kill but it is okay if the survivor can't get out because of bad teams who can't do gens without popping 4 times in a row.
0 -
Probably.
Since the Ruin nerf, killers are using NOED to have some extra power during the end game.
0 -
I use it on two killers. Wraith, because I don't have any decent forth perk for him yet.
Plague, though, I usually always use it, to combat the EGC cleansing.
I do think NOED is more prevalent today than before. Ruin was to slow the early game, NOED slows the late game. Considering how fast gens go, can you blame them for its usage?
0 -
I love using Plaque and I never use NOED. I can typically get a 4 game kill but most the time let one go. I never use NOED even when using Wraith either. I mean I use Corrupt Intervention and that gives me a chance because it forces the survivors to come to the closer gens near me and with whispers I can hunt them down. I know when the Whispers perk is dark no one is around when lit they are around and it gets louder as you get closer. It is like a game of hot and cold but easier.
There is many ways to play a game without using NOED. You could use BBQ and Rancor for constant vision on the Survivors along side maybe Surveillance for when they stop and restart a gen and we all know that happens often. You could also use Discordance which lets you see when more than 1 survivor is working on a gen.
I am not saying do not use NOED but do not rely on it and use it every game. I feel like it is a crutch in a sense. I may be a bit biased just because I do not use it and my track record with games the past few days have been so full of NOED I grew tired of the game and have taken a break.
Also YAY another Plaque player! I love her! The funny thing is she was the first killer I tried and I hated her but I went back a little while later and loved her.
0 -
I can honestly say I do not think Hex Ruin was ever that tough anyway. I mean annoying yes but workable against. However NOED the ONLY way to counter it is to break the totem. At least with Hex Ruin you could work and yeah it would take longer but you could do it.
I am not saying do not use NOED but I am just tired of seeing it but that might be because I am a Nintendo Switch player and the killers are still new and need to use it.
0 -
This thread reeks of survivor main
0 -
I love how your only input is bashing people that play survivors. I play both and I think NOED is okay to use when you are a first time learning killer but there is many other good perks as well. I also only dislike it when you are playing 10 games and 8 of them bring NOED and you are with players who have no clue because they are new and have no idea to cleanse totems because if not it can screw you.
I also learned you play most games solo but I am gonna guess you also play with friends sometime so you also have the advantage at times to talk. When you play strictly Solo que with no means of communication and you have players that pop gens so much they undone all your work. It just makes the game that much harder when you need to make sure to also cleanse EVERY totem because your team does not think about it because they are new.
I will apologize on behalf of whoever or whatever comment offended you. I would just say please instead of bashing people you could maybe add some actual input. Even if they are survivor mains they still are adding stuff to the conversation.
0 -
I do not mind the use of either but I felt like Hex Ruin was easier even with new players because they could see a lit totem. I have been put in games with clearly new players who can't even do gens who walk right past a dull totem and don't cleanse it because they are more gen focused and don't think about late game. At least with HEX within a minute you know its in game and now you go look for the totem.
IN THE END I DO NOT MIND ANY PERK AT ALL BUT WHEN 8 OUT OF 10 GAMES ARE NOED AND EVERY GAME I GET KILLED SAVING NEW PLAYERS IT GETS A BIT MUCH. I EVEN WATCHED ONE SURVIVOR WHO WAS PRACTICALLY SITTING ON THE LIT TOTEM AND WATCHING HIS TEAMMATE ON THE ENTIRE OTHER SIDE OF THE MAP GETTING PICKED UP RUN OUT OF THE GATE INSTEAD OF TAKING THE TIME TO CLEANSE THE TOTEM. THE MAP WAS Memorial Institute and the totem was right behind the push door near the gate and he could have cleansed it with time and everything but decided to leave instead.
PS sorry about the weird font I am not sure what or how it happened.
0 -
I guess when I play killer I just try to use other perks so I don't have to hope and rely on NOED. I find at that point it is to stressful so I use more vision perks and Whispers I love! It is like a game of hot and cold and most the time I win but normally let 1 maybe 2 if I am feeling nice, survivors go. =)
0 -
I understand the frustration of noed, but it's a complete non-issue because the time it takes to find the totem at the end of the game is offset by how quickly the game goes by in the first place.
With old Ruin staying up for a good portion of the game, I can see how noed was cheap.
And the reason I didn't add thoughtful input is because I already know how conversations go with these types of people, and I feel I have the right to make such a comment given that I have over 1500 hours in this game, with 80% of them being survivor.
0
