Dead Hard should lose the distance boost
So with all the talk of breakable walls taking skill out of shack recently it got me thinking about Dead Hard. You see some of us like shack because it's strong but it can be mindgamed. It's one of the higher levels of play by DBD standards. A strong loop for survivor but the killer has the opportunity to outsmart his opponent. It's not like a god loop with no mindgame, but it's not a weak pallet.
Some are for the breakable walls while others like myself feel it's one of the better parts of DBD.
This has me thinking about Dead Hard. When used for distance it effectively removes the skill out of the loops. The killer can mindgame and force the survivor to make a mistake but with a quick tap of the E button the survivor gets another try. Shack being one of these areas where even if you outplayed your opponent the distance boost can be enough to make it null and void.
I feel like the game should be encouraging more skillfull plays and rewarding players for experience and knowledge they have gained. Having a mini speed boost on a button press kind of sucks the skill out of it.
I've lost count of the amount of times I've played a loop well, say a jungle gym or shack and the survivor has been granted the window or pallet for free because of Dead Hard.
Couldn't it keep the i-frames but lose the distance? or am I expecting too much?
Comments
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Deadharding for distance is a legit good play, and it's an even bigger dick play if you time it right to dodge a swing, and it's easily baited out. Not a necessary nerf.
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Inb4 "just bait it out, bro".
Also, how can you bail out a DH for distance, do i buy magic pills to enlarge my lunge?
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How is it easily baited out when it's used for distance? you get a survivor to make a mistake in a loop ensuring you close enough distance to get a hit, then tap E while running towards a pallet or vault and that's it.
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If you can't see Deadhard coming from a mile away as a killer...I mean, it's an easy read 90% of the time. It's like when a killer plays NOED. You can tell they're a NOED gamer long before it procs, if it procs, just by how they play. I really don't think this is an issue with deadhard. Just work on your reads and predictions.
If they do it once, you know they have it. If you let them get away with it again, that's really on you.
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I mean I see a survivor is running towards a pallet or vault, I know a Dead Hard is coming to give them the distance....care to explain how you "bait it out" at that point even when you have correctly predicted it's coming?
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Baiting it out doesn't necessarily give you a hit, but a possibility to just get them to use their dead hard. Now, they have nothing. Of all the things survivor related that need work, dead hard is not really one of them. All dead hard gamers play the same; knowing if they have it is easy.
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if they are doing it for distance there is no way for you to "bait "it out. not sure what the guy is trying to argue.
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Baiting them can simply be forcing them to use it prematurely, even if you don't get the hit. If a dead hard for distance really makes you lose a chase that easily, I don't really know what to say at that point other than continue to play killer and learn. Not you personally, but killers in general. I don't often lose a lot of time because of a DH for distance.
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Dead hard is fine.
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This^^
Easily outplayed. Let's actually look at survivor perks that are an issue instead of the ones that can be outplayed by honing your skill.
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DH has not worked right since dedicated servers were forced on us. Sprint burst is the new meta. DH's only use is distance now. You sound like a killer who's never played survivor and tried to use DH on the ded servers. Once a killer is within maximum lunge range the command to activiate DH rarely registers before the killer's hit does. You get exausted, your client recognizes the ability was activated, but you still take a hit. It's only use is for distance now if you mess up a loop. It adds less distance between you and the killer than any other exaustion perk so why would ever ask for a nerf. I'm glad when a survivor DH's. No head on, no sprint burst, no BL which all give you a much larger gap to close.
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Lithe and Balanced are escape perks. They aren't there to extend loops, they're there to help the survivor get away. DH will be receiving improvements for dedicated servers, at the moment it's just a legit "second chance" perk.
Sprint burst is crutch as hell I give you that. Free loop everytime.
Head on, survivor has to stay still to use it. Doesn't extend loops nor does it interrupt mindgames.
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DH is fine. No nerfs are needed.
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I'm curious. How do you consider Dead Hard somehow...problematic and unbalanced...and Decisive Strike balanced given the far worse situations when it can be abused? Without saying "just don't tunnel" or "i never get DS'd". Just a question. Dead Hard doesn't stop a chase, doesn't end a chase, and you don't lose a lot of time. I'm failing to get your logic of how you find that unbalanced, yet DS balanced.
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They would have to multiply the invulnerability time a few times to compensate.
I mean , you really think anyone would touch the perk if all it did was make you invulnerable for 0.5 sec? You would probably get hit 99.9% of the times you try using it.
It's fine the way it is. Not close to being OP.
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Because the fun of the game is the mindgames between killer and survivor. Having a free speed boost to make up for a misplay takes the skill out of that and effectively means your effort was for nothing.
DS....eh I just tend to not try and hook the person who just got off hook. It's rare I ever get hit by DS and if I do it would be once for the game and that would be it. Meanwhile almost every survivor in the game will use DH in every chase. Normally about 3 survivors run it, once per chase = seeing it used 9 times per game. About 30-50% of those you can bait it out, the other half no it's just a free pallet/vault on a button press.
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But as I said, Dead Hard doesn't cost you that much time (it's negligible unless you're a fairly unseasoned killer, then it might give you issues, but that's how we learn). DS can be create situations at times where you have no counterplay as a killer, and there's no stopping it. Dead Hard...I mean, unless they are literally in the exit gate when they use it, there's always the likelyhood you'll still get them unless they somehow juked you with dead hard. So to complain about Dead Hard...and not Decisive Strike...seems extremely off to me.
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One is just a free chase extender on demand at all times. The other only activates if a survivor is picked up within 60 seconds of being unhooked. Yes you can always still get them with DH but it's just another loop you need to run. You might as well have "Press E to spawn a pallet".
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thats one of the whole purposes of the perk......
plus dedicated servers makes it work half the time anyway so....why are we having this discussion again?
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You're over thinking it. It's doing literally what it's supposed to do. If it's that detrimental to you as a killer, all you need to do is get better. That's not me being a dick, I genuinely think you need to (and are capable of) getting better. DS is a far larger issue, because with Dead Hard, you will get them. With DS, there are situations where there's no actual counter play.
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all of the perks are there to extend a chase. I'm not going to get bogged down with word games. Of them all, as a killer, DH is the one I'll wish the survivors use EVERY time. Rank 1 killer with 1500 hours (about 500 as killer), btw.
Also, I can guarantee you, 100....no...1000% DH will NEVER work on dedicated servers on all but the lowest of killer survivor / server combinations. If a killer has a ping of 100, and survivor has a ping of 100, there is a 200ms delay between the 2 clients in the BEST case scenario. Factor in jitter and hardware / input latency and ANY critical timing action, (to which this entire game is based), will not work.
It looks like BHVR has increased the matchmaking threshold to 150ms also, (which I don't think they told anyone), to speed up matchmaking. 150 ping to the server on both sides makes this game unplyable for any high skill player who is accustomed to better response times from gaming in 2020, as they should.
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Killer mains again trying to ruin the game for survivors smh. Nothing is wrong with dead hard and if you think there is something wrong with it or consider DH op then your wrong. It can easily be baited and half the time it doesnt even work. Youll get the exhaustion effect but you wont even get the speed boosts.
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I agree. Also, can we make it so that Dead Hard doesn't just completely negate Trapper's traps or Huntress and Deathslinger's projectiles?
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Wouldn't mind swapping the extra distance for more i-frames. it needs a lag compensation mechanich since dedicated servers.
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You mean remove the main reason for taking Dead Hard? It's to make that pallet or vault you would not make otherwise. Dodging a killer hit is a bonus, but a last ditch move since Dead Hard is so unreliable what with dedicated servers and it not even triggering sometimes.
Sure, if it was more reliable in dodging a killer swing - but how it is now, no way.
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Trapper's traps I can see maybe why.. but I have no idea why you think it shouldn't be able to dodge Huntress or Deathslinger.
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@Malik1178 This community lol I’ve gone from being accused of never playing killer to a killer main.
Dead hard always grants distance. The only time it doesn’t work is when you use it as the killer swings due to latency, this is being looked into though.
@Spooky13 I completely agree. If Trapper places a trap in a doorway like shack of springwood school then the survivor can Dead Hard through but Trapper has to stop to pick up his trap before be can pass through. Why does a killers power hinder him more than the survivor?
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If you Dead Hard forward in a straight line, you should still get hit by the harpoon or hatchet, but you don't, you just phase completely through it because of the invulnerability..
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Just play more killer matches and you will have the masterbait skill, DH is fine, stop complaining for nothing!
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removing the distance is FINE people should not get a second chance when they lose a mindgame every seconds. Actually this would make dead hard more unnoticeable the killer would think they missed the attack instead knowing they have dead hard, in other words will still be a STRONG perk
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Well Deathslinger has a reach of 18m. Either way, though, if you are invulnerable at the point where the hatchet or harpoon collides with your hitbox then you should not be hit.
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I'm fine with Dead Hard as a perk.
I'm not fine with the Devs taking away Nurse's ability to bait its use.
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Considering the i-frames don't even work half the time, I think takin out the speed boost would make the perk absolutely useless. On that note, I've been downed despite apparently not havin a hitbox enough times that I don't even use the perk anymore so have at it.
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I strongly agree! DH is being used for distance and not what's intended for. BHVR usually does something about perks not being used as intended, but it's a survivor perk so nothing is going to happen about it
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As a long term player and killer who faces insane amount of Deah hards I say don't touch it. Imao it's perfectly balanced perk that has advantages and disadvantages and rewards skillful gameplay and good timing unlike so many other survior meta perks. Yes it can be used to cover mistakes but those happens most of the time due to dead hard which makes surviors greedy for more loops then they could normally aford. If you remove the bonus distance all it will make is just force surviors to play more safe and give you less chances to force them to use DH at bad times and get downed themselfs for beiing greedy.
If DH gets nerfed I'll be pretty amazed and certainly complain about it on behalf of both sides.
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Um this game is too killer sided at least let us keep our powers like dead hard like this is unfair our gen speed is low were gonna lose too box time like we need extra hook time or something this game is really unfair
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Boy you can spot the survivor mains that are praying the devs continue to be survivor sided. It wouldn't be a meta perk if it wasn't insanely strong. Deadhard is far more powerful than sprint burst, which is why you see it more often at top ranks. Sprint burst requires skill and has downsides. You need to walk everywhere, or get your exhaustion to 99%, then run everywhere for it to be useful.
Dead hard on the other hand is available at all times and has too much versatility. Got out mind gamed? E button. Made a mistake at a loop? E button. Need to make an extra loop around a pallet? E button. Need to dodge a nurse blink, oni smash, or huntress hatchet? E button. When used properly, there is nothing that the killer can do about it. Don't swing and they make the pallet, but do swing and they use dead hard, there is no baiting that.
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I don't understand why people want Dead Hard nerfed instead of Sprint burst, dh for distance is very situational and it genuinely takes some skill, while sprint burst is zzzzz and has the most brainded skillcap
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There is no counter to Dead Hard "for distance" (that is, using it to reach a window/pallet that you then use to extend the loop/chase), barring Exhaustion Add-ons / Blood Echo.
It doesn't matter if you know they have it or not.
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I've never used DH, because I decided to level my killers first. The tome had me use it to make a killer miss. Within two games, I was using it to potential on loops.
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I said you could bait Deadhard. I didn't specify when used for distance, lol
But even if they use it for distance, you straight up are terrible at killer if that REALLY wastes that much of your time.
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If I was in charge of balance I’d obliterate sprint burst as well. Its just a free time wasting perk against the killer. Takes no skill and all the survivors that use it think they’re MLG. Used by crutch gamers.
I think Dead Hard gets more discussion though because (at least on PC) you can expect at least 3 survivors to run it per game at red ranks. Last one will probably be using sprint burst.
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I still fail to understand how you can call all these other perks "crutchy" and "no skill"...and still defend DS, and call it balanced. That boggles me. If it were anti-tunnel, and only anti tunnel, I would agree...but it's so much more than that.
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I agree, but then they would need to buff the incredibly unreliable invulnerability aspect of it. If it gave no distance, then you would avoid damage, the Killer would whiff and then... just hit you a second later, because you're still right next to them. It would become only useful against ranged killers, bear traps, or if you happened to dodge a hit RIGHT in a pallet that you could immediately throw down. And that's all apart from the fact that, thanks to dedicated Servers, the game often just gives the hit to the Killer anyway even if you were supposed to be invulnerable.
So if they fixed the latency issue, and then gave some kind of reward for dodging a hit (Maybe if an attack hits your hitbox during the invulnerability period, you get 2-3 seconds of haste. So like a midchase sprint burst, but only if you actually use it to dodge hits) then I'd totally be in favor of this, but at the moment this change would just make it worthless.
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Deadhard for distance is a good way to get to pallets which you would not be able to get to otherwise.I sometimes use it for just that.
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You sink more with every post. Please stop embarrassing yourself. Just admin that you were wrong...
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Okay, then the .5 seconds of invincibility needs to be changed to 1.5-2 seconds to account for latency (that already screws Dead Harders over anyway) and to account for not having to hope and pray you somehow get the knee jerk reaction split second invincibility frame to keep from dying.
Even though I think Dead Hard shouldn’t be changed anyway, this is the only way I can see any change happening if one is implemented.
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Omg imagine thinking killer shack was "high end mindgames" and not just having a ridiculously safe loop.
On to the point. Dead hard has more uses than just dodging a hit. The distance is half of what people use it for. Literally.
Besides, it gets exhaustion, its not like they can use it 5 times in a loop.
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Dead Hard is really unreliable on dedicated servers. You don't notice it as killer, but it's pretty annoying for survivors.
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DH is literally a 50/50 chance perk now with dedicated servers.
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