One condition to make NOED more fair

You

You are lying, If you wanna De-rank you DC Or sit in the corner. Making people take longer to do gens is just a bad way to derank. This nerf is also pointless and not needed. I've already explained several times, playing the game with out a 4th perk is a big deal and if you played killer you'd know it.

you can prevent NOED from activating by cleansing totems. i don't see any problem with both NOED and DS they have their own risk.

There are people who camp just to ruin fun for others, just look in the forum and tou will find more than a few.

This nerf is not pointless or not needed, you meet campers/tunnelers quite often, you would know if you played survivior.

So again, this nerf I proposed would change NOTHING in high ranks, it would only make NOED campers possible to counter. So YOU lose nothing. Absolutely nothing. Why would you be against a change that doesnt affect you or anyone with IQ higher than a potato?

Again, using NOED is not playing without 4th perk, NOED gives you 80-120 seconds of GEN SLOWDOWN. This is comparable to Thanatophobia.

everyone is too busy completing all 5 gens in 6 minutes rather than cleansing totems - honestly NOED should be built into every killer at this rate.

Again, playing with NOED is not playing with 3 perks, NOED gives you over 80 seconds worth of gen slowdown, this is comperable to other slowdown perks in the game.

NOED rewards failure, defending gens is your objective. Betting on the "last chance" is not bad by itself, but NOED requires no tokens/stacks to activate, so there is no difference of you played well or not, camping 1 person all game gives you the same NOED as getting 11 hooks and 3 kills.

Both DS and NOED reward you when the other side does their objective. DS rewards you when the Killer gets many hooks in a short amount of time. Also you are guaranteed to to use DS, as you can just force it by doing gens/gates in front of the killer. Pairing it with Unbreakable gives you a guaranteed health state.

And yes, Fire Up also rewards failure, except this perk has way weaker effect than NOED.

Blood Warden does NOT reward failure, it rewards you for hooking someone during EGC, and this is a success, not a failure

Actually it does not. Most survivors do not clense every totem, if NOED Pops up they typically just remove it shortly after it spawns. Mainly because you don't need to do every totem, just the one that spawns. If the killer is camping then destory NOED, save friend using full health *Unless its bubba* make sure to 99% a door before doing this and bring BT/DS and your good. Most survivors run BT or DS or Both so camping is really not a problem. There is easy counter play to this perk even in this hypethetical camp land that a lot of high rank killers do.

It’s completely fair. I’m a level 16 killer. If I’m going to be matched with a lobby where half of the survivors are level 2 and 3 (which happened just now), and the other two are 8 and 15, I need to have something like this to even up the odds.

And even THEN I am still probably going to only kill 2 at most.

Thats why its not fair lol. You shouldnt be able to win against them. Well, you also shouldnt be matched with them in the first place, but matchmaking is broken.

So lution to that is fixing matchmaking, not giving you a perk that lets you win against people better than you.

They wouldnt get tunneled... Why? Because when you are unhooked, you are INJURED. So you can be 1shot anyway... So you will be able to use NOED only on people you have hooked EARLIER, so its not tunneling at all.

For instance, as a survivor, I just came across two other survivors working on a gen with a glowing, active totem literally right next to them within their line of sight. I’m sure they would have gotten to it afterwards, but given the odds that the killer would be by (and he was by) before the gen was done it seems really silly to leave that standing given how much faster it is to cleanse.

It won't matter if you're exposed because the killers camping anyway right? In your hypothetical scenario where this perk is overpowered The killer is camping and cannot protect the totem. Most people who use NOED don't try to protect it but rather try to stop people going for the gates so just don't go for the gates and look for NOED. The killer can typically down one or two people if their group together using this perk. So as a survivor all you need to do is just destroy the totem then use your full health to unhook. You might trade yeah but both people have borrowed time and/or DS so it shouldn't matter. You are only complaining about this perk in the sense of camping but when you camp with it's not good, and furthermore weaker than used correctly.

Ds can always be avoided if you play well enough. The only time " it cant be avoided" is in the end game when they are crawling to the exit gate and you have to pick them up. But even that scenario can be avoided by playing better.

What if you are in a game where it is you and 2 or 3 other new players who do not even think about cleansing totems because they see it is dull and think eeh it's okay? I have had many MANY games where I get a high rank killer and very low rank players if not completely new players who don't even know you can't heal a reverse bear trap from their heads. They last thing they are thinking is NOED is gonna pop up and get them.

I mean they could worst case just make it a totem that is lit but wont take effect until the end to give new players a chance to learn. I last game tonight had 2 players who followed me because they thought I could heal them and I guess take off their traps from their heads. I felt bad but nothing I could do but now I am expecting them to also know to cleanse every totem.

I also have to ask if NOED is completely fair then why was everyone so scared or mad at HEX Ruin? That perk was nothing compared to NOED. At least when the game started you knew from the start to cleanse that. You have no idea that NOED will be in effect meaning from now on in every game you should skip all gens and just focus all totems first.

I personally do not mind ANY perk just have been burnt out on NOED because I have seen a huge spike in its use since Hex Ruin was reworked and 85% of my games have it. I would like to see other perks used.

Last time I check to active DS you need to take a huge meathook to the back and then HOPE the killer picks you up. I could be wrong though. lol If the killer is the smart they just let you lay like a dumb slug.

I also agree with what you said about NOED. There should be at least some requirement beyond the simple just needing survivors to leave one dull totem. You pointed out how devour hope needs tokens yet there is little to nothing needed for NOED. I wish people would be honest and think about how often does every totem really get cleansed when they play. It is even worst in solo ques unless you make it your only job to try and find them all.

Or what if the killer brings an ebony mori are we suppose to " just do totems." You'll lose if you do that especially playing solo. In many cases you have to rush gens.

I know a lot of survivors will rush gens when it is completely unnecessary and actually hurts them because even if the killer doesn't have noed they get less blood points and it's much harder for them pip. If the killer has only downed 2 survivors the entire match there is absolutely no reason to rush the last gen.

But there are many more situations, I think, where rushing gens has to be done or you'll find yourself in a spot where finding the hatch is your only hope of escape.

I think you are forgetting Lockers, Adrenaline, Unbreakable, other surviviors and the fact that the killer doesnt have 4 60 second timers in his head and doesnt always remember who has DS and who not in an important situation (example: bodyblocking hook in EGC). Not to mention that you can get multiple people running the same character with the same cosmetics.

Well that depends on skill of the surviviors, good surviviors or SWF will pick the guy up as soon as he finishes recovering. DS in a locker means you cant slug them, you can only do a locker grab and get DSed. Amazing.

I dont think it matters if they are EXACTLY the same. These perks work similiar, reward similiar plays, dont require any skill/effort to use, have annoying, partially counterable counterplay and both have a powerful effect that can turn the tide of the game. Both perks have can be countered, but you have to go out of your way because enemy MIGHT have that perk, and you have to play around it even if it its not in the game.

DS is used to counter tunneling, but is also abused by good surviviors who use it as 60s invicibility they can use to do gens. Not to mention that DS actually CAUSES MORE TUNNELING, because killer assumes that EVERYONE HAS DS and tunnels EVERY survivior to trigger their DS early. This is literally the best counter to DS.

I think 60 seconds on DS are fine, but there have to be conditions when DS is immmediately disabled when:

• You are the last survivior that is not dead/slugged/hooked
• Another DS got activated
• You started doing any action (except vaulting and self healing)
• You got caught in a Bear Trap
• 2 other people got downed (-30s from the timer per down)
• TO IMPROVE ANTI TUNNELING PART: timer is stopped while in a chase

As for NOED balance:

You can use NOED only on surviviors you have hooked at least once before it activated.

So, here's where you lose (and I suggest you stop trying). Say the exit gates are opened. EGC has begun. You have someone on the hook and they get saved. They have DS for 60 seconds. Even if you slug that person, they have time to get to a door. What's the counter play? Oh wait, there isn't one. They either crawl out the door, because they have 60 seconds to get to either door which is more than enough, or you pick them up and get DS'd. Where's the part where it can be prevents? Go ahead. I'll wait. (I'll literally be waiting forever).

Also - do you know how many times I can hook someone, then go hook 2 other people, find the 1st person at a generator...and they still have DS? I hooked 2 other people? How were they tunneled? Your entire logic is broken. So just stop, lol. You only serve to hurt your own ego here, cause you have no real point to make other than shameless defense of your little crutch perk.

Good, now that we've established that your logic is broken, you can stop attempting. :) Just back away, bud. You started a debate you can't win.

"Last time I checked, you have to take a huge meathook to the back"...wait, so you have to get caught? Which means...losing a chase? Which if I'm mistaken...is a failure on your part? You have to fail to get your get out of jail free perk? K.

So you are going on the idea that you couldn't manage to get a kill and the exit gate is now open? It sounds more like a skill level failure on your part. I see many games where people with DS get killed way before the exit gate is open. Also I guess if we make up scenarios anyone can prove a point. I guess my turn to make up a fake made believe scenario.

STORY TIME!- It is a cold and dark night and I hear the screams of the survivors. I go and run one down and she looks at me praying I don't whack her in the head but I do it with a gleeful look on my face. I hook her and screams can be heard for miles and she struggles and cries. A fellow survivor comes to her rescue and I run to the hook and even with her teammate in front of her I refuse to slug here because I want the survivor that gof off the hook. I catch her and slug her and I am smiling because I know she is mine but I pick her up and I feel a cold metal thing stab my back. SHE IS FREE. I fall to my knees screaming 'WHY GOD WHY?!".-STORY TIME OVER

Heck let's even go with your Story. STORY TIME-You slug the survivor when the exit gate opens and hook her. Her partners get her off the hook and you go and hit her but DUN DUN DUN.....she has borrowed time....now you come to the forums to cry BT is to strong now. ROFL Wait sorry wrong story.....I mean she gets slugged and you go to pick her up and DS procs but she missed and now you get to hook her again.

You are acting like DS is a 100% hit chance. I have seen players miss by accident. You are talking about DS in the most perfect of setups. If it was as great as you claim I would think it would be used more often but I am lucky if one survivor in my game has it.

But you are right this is a most pointless debate because at the end of the day Perks are only as good as the setup they are in. We can keep making story time though to make the perk and or point better fit our points.

You are right about the characters running same cosmetics and stuff but I guess because I play Solo Que this almost never happens. I also play on the Switch so SWF is not an option and I have 1000k hours before anyone says I haven't played enough. On the Switch I am lucky to see DS on one survivor at all and body blocking does sometimes occur but that is more when the killer is tunneling a survivor and we just want to save the survivor and give them a chance to get any points. Most the time survivors on the switch just stay out of the way. I am sorry ahead of time I think I am just having a different experience then others.

Well the point of my DS change is to limit its use to ONLY anti tunneling, and this chamge would work perfectly for that

And yes it can be abused, for example by bodyblocking, taunting the killer to chase you or making noise (vaults, disarming traps, etc). I was thinking about limiting those things too (for example reduce the timer when location is revealed), but then I remembered that DS is Laurie's perk, the same survivior that has OoO, so this change would make no sense. So yes, you can still taunt the killer to tunnel you, but tou have to do so by doing useeless things (making noise, tbagging), you cant force the killer to tunnel you by doing objectives anymore. And I think its fair.

SWF are a problem, and some changes are needed, but we are talking only about DS and maybe NOED here. I think the DS change I thought of limits its use in SWF, as you cant just genrush with DS on.

I think NOED being invisible is fine, this is the uniqueness of this perk. So as long as NOED is not something that comes out of nowhere without any effort from the killer, I think its fine.