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Exit Gates should Reset or Regress
I apologize if this sounds like a rant.
We had this problem with 99%ing Gens years ago and it was fixed by allowing the killer to regress progress.
Whats the point of the EGC if the survivors sit at the Exit Gate BMing and open it once they see you approaching or hear your heartbeat. Survivors should be opening the gates asap.
This also isn't just a killer problem. I've had few occasions as a solo survivor where a SWF member will 99% the lever and block it till there friends arrive so I can't open the door and leave. My only choices are running to the other door, injured or not, and risk getting spotted by the killer, or going along with them and being forced to wait. While rare this has resulted in me being downed and left to the killer.
All I suggest is the exit gate lever to reset or at least regress if a survivor hops off (Reset preferably to prevent Door tapping/blocking). This would make Remember Me viable again and remove 99%ing Exit Gates. Maybe add some functionality with Blood Warden as well where if the gates are closed it resets the levers to 0 when a survivor is hooked.
I know that some people may say this makes opening the door as the final survivor much more difficult after the hatch is closed and I agree. To offset a change like this I would fully support doors to have their spawn distances more balanced.
Allowing Exit Gates to regress or reset will have little effect on overall gameplay and mostly give the killer a QoL change knowing the survivors have a time limit to save their friend or BM at the exit.
Comments
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This was actually something that was tested earlier on when the End Game Collapse was created, for what it's worth. While it's nice, it did mean that coordinated groups had a noticeable advantage over solo players. You could communicate and have one guy wait on the gate keeping it prepped and ready to open while the other guy goes for the save. Meanwhile a solo player would have to cross their fingers and hope for the best, possibly coming back to a gate at 0%.
Ultimately it was decided against. We don't want to widen that gap anymore than it already is.
As far as the blocking the gate bit goes, that would be considered griefing and you can report them for that.
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If they'll regress survivor is just gonna stand there and tap it
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But he has to stand there
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Perhaps it's time to move EGC up to when the last gen is completed (and make it 3 minutes again)? It's been a thing for a while now from my own experience it's really not that big of a deal as creates zero pressure as survivors found a loophole.
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EGC Isn't meant to create pressure, that's why, it's neither a tool for the killers or the survivors. It's meant to make sure that a match has a definite end, the sooner killers realise this the sooner they'll stop trying to make it a killer tool.
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It would be a nice change. BW would see more action and remember might actually be useful again. As for the "Making it impossible to open the door as the last survivor" well if the killer managed to kill 3 people before the gens were complete and they closed the hatch before the 4th found it, the killer probably deserves that 4k.
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Except coordinated groups already have a noticeable advantage over solo players. I don't exactly know why you make it sound like that isn't a thing. Maybe I'm missing something.That's exactly why SWF is so powerful. What you said, is already in effect.
And it's not like the gap is being closed at any point. Kindred was a good start, but that was the only thing done in, what, years?
How is gate regression going to change how a SWF acts when, again, they're already coordinated.
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You may want to read that again. I did explicitly mention "We don't want to widen that gap anymore than it already is." That's not making it sound like it's not a thing at all.
The point being, just because there's already a gap isn't a sound reason to intentionally make that gap bigger. That only makes it worse, not better.
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Once in the forum I suggested the regression to be just enough to avoid 99%. As much as 80% or 90% would suffice to avoid the instaOpening with 99% and would not be a harm to a solo player, or someone that legitimy stops opening the gate. First, if hes not at 90%, it wont regress. Second, if regress, will do that after some time and just until reach the 90%.
If thats an idea, heres my 5 cents. :D
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Here's my take one gate regression, no.
Gates are already spawning ridiculously close on most maps, unless forced not to Lerys/Game/Hawkins, this gate regression only makes it harder for survivors at end game, especially those who have had the hatch closed on them, it also only makes killers like Nurse/Spirit/Billy/Oni/Wraith, or any killer that can have great speed, even stronger than they already need to be at end game... you know... that bit where the survivors have done 95% of their objective and only need to do 5% more to "win".
If you want EGC, open the gate, sometimes it's necessary to start the gate, and stop it just before the red light comes on, so when the killers comes back to check it looks like it hasn't been touched, giving you just enough time between door checks to maybe make it out, especially if you're the last alive.
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Or you could open it yourself... you have that option. If I were incrementally opening a door in a 1v1 situation verse a killer, I would be able to do absolutely NOTHING due to regression. It doesn't need any more changes. You can open it yourself if you want EGC to be triggered.
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So in a kinda "Buff killer" post... the answer is no because it would not nerf all survivors equally?
So you discussed that 99% could be a problem but decided against a helpful tool for killers because of survivor balance issues and the solution to the problem is killers gettting nothing?
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I made a topic about this some time ago, dont bother, the mind is made up already.
Its a real shame because the EGC can offer really fun fair and exciting gameplay, but ya know, #nofunallowed.
Ill put my then typed conclusion about there here again:
Ok soo lets see here:
It wasnt the most interesting gameplay....yes 99ning a gate and then not having to worry about that at all, that, that is some interesting gameplay....
It removed close calls? what do you mean, it would introduce close calls more then anything, survivors running to a gate HOPING someone is there opening it for them? THAT is a close call, 99ning means its open with a single tap, that removes the idea of a close call entirely.
People could have someone stand there and keep the gates ready to open....yeah...thats the risk....that is exactly what would make it interesting.
You can go out with 3 survivors to save the person on the hook with the risk of not even able to open the door in time
OR, you can have 1 person behind making sure the door will be open when it needs to be and just going in with 2 survivors which will bare its own risks...
ORRR, you DO open the gate, go in with 3 people, now you have the risk of bloodwarden and the pressure of the EGC but you are a 3 man team and no doors are in the way.
That is the choice, thats gameplay, thats the game... that is exactly why this 99ing is bs, it just circumvents any pressure the EGC or closed doors could provide, the fun pressure it might offer.
If the killer has to open the gate, then the person will just be unhooked and everyone escapes, so what does the killer do? they camp, and against what? a squad with DS BT and some bodyblocking to the exit gates which now opens with a single tap....aka no fun for anyone involved.
Again if you want it to be over after the last gen is done just end it, why this nonsense time wasting?
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because they don't play their own game and the people that actually do and interact with us are forced to play along with their clownery.
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I wouldn't boil it down to something so simple. Classifying things as "buff X" or "nerf Y" turns things into us vs. them, and that never leads anywhere productive. In this case, we're talking about something that would widen the SWF skill gap- something I'm sure we all agree isn't ideal. You want to minimize that gap as much as possible so it's easier to balance around, not make it bigger.
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Well I agree, but what was the solution to this? "balancing around" would mean something got changed, but in this case it just sayed as it was.
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For the gates specifically? Nothing really needs to change. As far as I'm concerned as killer, that gate is open. If I really want the collapse to start so it ticks down, I could open it myself. Overall, though, the goal is to bring the two as close together as possible so you can balance around a single skill level. This way you're not leaving solo players behind in the process.
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The main problem is that 99%ing gates makes the EGC a mostly non-issue. You could easily wait for the killer to arrive, open the gate at the last second, take a hit if needed, and If you have dead hard (and it actually wants to work because lmao dedicated servers) you would have even MORE time to just waltz out of the exit. Pair this with the inconsistency of space between exits and it can be just as bad as it used to be where the killer essentially has to camp any hooks to not get BT/Adrenaline/DS rushed out of any last minute kills... all while the timer hasn't even started so survivors have forever to heal up and get ready. Not to mention poor Ms. Piggy still can't even use her traps in the endgame.
The "killer opening the door themselves" part of the mechanic is only really viable for killers with reliable instadowns, and if the exits are close together. In any other situation it happens, its literally just the killer admitting defeat. I've seen some people say that the EGC should be a tiny bit longer, but activate as soon as the last gen is powered, and I kinda agree. Its already a pretty decently long timer as it is (especially with the slowdown for hooks and downs) so it would make the mechanic feel less like its specifically for when the trapdoor gets closed and the last survivor is basically a dead man walking.
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Thats very much what I would expect it to be, the "removal of the stalemate" rather than some kind of free kill mechanic. The issue is that it in itself is still survivor sided with how exploitable it is, so in the end the only things it actually accomplishes is putting a time limit on how long we can teabag in the exit gate before we have to leave, and slowly secures an already assured kill vs a last survivor if the hatch is closed and the killer can see both gates. When properly circumvented, it accomplishes literally nothing else.
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That seems like a waste, Im on board with it not helping you get kills (atleast not directly), but reducing it to a mere "game ender" isn't doing the feature justice (even if it originally was designed only with it ending the match in mind), EGC has the potential to be a tense crescendo with some tweaks, but whether or not it even activates being dependant solely on survivors eliminates this potential entirely. (And no, the killer going all the way to the gate and opening it themselves is usefull only in extremely rare scenarios. 99.9% of the time it only serves a "I give up, leave" purpose)
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so the idea for EGC is for survivors to get out the map quickly ok makes sense but yet you slow down the timer when a survivor is in a dying state or hooked? why just so survivors can plan and take their time for a rescue with very little pressure. Wouldnt it make more sense to keep timer as is regardless of a another survivor on hook or floor and i would argue makes the ending game more fun as you now got to decide to leave or take the risk and save that team member but on a very little time and if they all die to EGC then it was their fault they had the escape but decided to take the risk and it backfired on them.
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The end game collapse is already massively in the killer's favor. There is absolutely no reason to make it even more in the killer's favor. If the killer doesn't want to wait until the survivor's open the exit gate then the killer always has the option to open the gate him or herself.
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It's meant to end the game when the game should be over. If there's still someone to be rescued, it's not over yet. Again, the point is not to give you more kills by forcing people to leave instead of going for save, it's meant to stop people from hanging around and making the game drag on way longer than it needs to.
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They can still do that by just not opening the gate, though. If the Killer opens it, they have completely forfeit the game. If the survivors have no urgency to open it entirely, then the end game hasn't even started until they do (at which point the will have the full EGC timer left)
I've had matches where I 99%ed one gate, waited for other survivors, nobody came, someone got hooked, and then there was an 8 minute cat and mouse game where everyone was working to get everyone else out, slowly hook trading and saboing their way across the map to whichever gate they could. I just 99%ed the other gate and waited. I could have just left and forced the ECG as a mercy for the killer, but since the killer had no time to go anywhere near the doors, it was entirely up to our side whether to even allow the EGC to start.
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Okay i understand the If there's still someone to be rescued, it's not over yet part but what im trying to get across is why do survivors get a massive reduction on the EGC timer when i managed to catch a survivor before they get to the exit it relive them off a massive pressure that they are on a time limit to get out and they can drag the game on longer then its need to be. Wont a fair comprimse be reducing the speed reduction of the egc when a survivor is down so the other survivors can try the rescue but still keep some of the pressure of the EGC has.
Also realised we gone off topic here lol so regarding the post about regression of gates i do find 99 frustrating but not a 100% sure if regression is the right choice would it be possible to put it in the ptb at some point so we can test it and let us advise if it something that we might want to potentially put into live.
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It's mind boggling that you don't think EGC does enough to help killers. Open the gate yourself if it's such a problem.
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The survovor bias is strong in this thread from the devs as usual. Id say we should nerf killers, that should fix all issues, including survivor-queues.
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the frustrating thing is im not saying killers should get more kills from EGC if EGC is activated that means game is ending and it should be ending no matter what, not slow down just cause a survivor is on the floor or hook :/ but i understand to some degree what peantis was saying which i suggest okay slow the timer down but not to a crawl as it gets rid of the pressure that EGC had
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I don't see your gripes with a mechanic that was solely designed to not only end games quicker, but also end the hatch stand off situation. It's completely killer sided by the way. Before survivors could open the gate, and even if you had blood warden, it wouldn't really do much of anything. Survivors would just hide for as long as they wanted until it vanished. Then run out the gates. Now survivors deny killers blood warden by not opening the gates, but 99ing it. 99ing the doors can potentially earn the killers some downs that they wouldn't have before the EGC was introduced. That split second of needing to open the gate even at 99% may have been all the killer needed to catch up in time. I've seen this happen playing killer, and as playing survivor.
EGC also heavily favors the killer towards the end game in a stand off. Most killers find the hatch before survivors can, and the door spawn points half the time are close enough that even just basic movement speed is enough for the killers to patrol them. If it's a Spirit, or Billy it's probably gg regardless of what the survivor does. About the only mediocre play a survivor can maybe do is....maybe get the door to about 30% right before the first light would come on, hide and let the killer go back and hope they can finish the door. But most of the time the EGC Timer is going to kill them. Now you can argue that if the killer got to this point, they deserve that kill. I'd agree, I'd also argue that if the survivors got to the end game by doing gens they also did their job, and the EGC shouldn't punish them further.
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99% the gate is a strategy, like slugging, body blocking etc.
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So if gate regression in any form is because of SWF vs solo (a balance issue created by the developers a LOOOONG time ago as we all know) then why not buff solo UP to SWF in a case like this? Gates regress in some form, SWF gets the full effect, solo gets a speed boost to compensate?
Personally, after the first gate is opened, I would like a notification (or aura color change etc) when the second gate is opened so I know not to waste my time in one way or another. SWF can communicate if both are opened/ being opened. Let's give the killer a little more info as well. Survivors already get a TON of info handed to them. I'd like to see killer's get a tad more in a situation like this.
Heck, how about Tinkerer being able to see gate auras intensity? It's a seldom used perk as is, but if you wanted to run it to know what gate is at what percent, it would make that a good "end game perk" then yeah?
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yes, lets leave the 1 person on the hook to open a gate, that will go well, do you ever play killer at all?
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I think what he is saying is that 99% the gates eliminates what the EGC was meant to do: end the game. No one wants the EGC to help killers get kills, we want it to force survivors to escape and end the game, 99% the gates eliminates the EGC's ability to do this, which is what many people see is the issue, not the fact it doesn't help them kill people. I believe that 99% the gates removes the entire purpose of the EGC, which is why I believe some kind of gate regression should be a thing because it forces the survivors to actually open the gates and leave, and while yeah the killer can go and do that themselves, what if they have someone on a hook and another one downed by the hook, they should leave all that pressure to open a gate?
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I think there should a gate nerf just make skill checks or the killer can regress the progress or change EGC it's just not very fun sitting at a walking to a gate knowing they have it open and are butt dancing
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This would be an unnecessary change.
I'll throw the good ole quote that gets thrown around here to survivors...specifically around gates being balanced.
"You've already had your chance at attempting to kill survivors, and pretty much at that point survivors have the upper hand".
Here is a list of the things you as a killer get with EGC.
- 90% of the time, gates spawn on the same side, or next to each other.
- EGC Kills the survivor, even if they are not hooked.
As it's already been said, EGC favors killers already. This would just make silver platter killers, golden platter killers.
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Yeah but how many times has the EGC really kills someone at least make it where it activates as soon as the last gen is done
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The EGC is meant to end the game, that is the whole reason they came up with it.
It wasn't a feature to allow you to get extra kills, but even then it is still very heavily killer sided.
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Sorry if someone already said this, i didnt read every comments, but what if you add a safe zone to the Exit Gate Progress? Like if u start opening and u cancel it at 39% it will go back to 20%. There could be more Safezones like on 20%, 40%, 60% and 80%. Just a Idea.
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The amount of comments here stating I (or any killer) want free kills from the EGC is astounding. I thought I was fairly clear in my post, but all I want is for the game to come to an end when it should be over.
For others stating it's a strategy like slugging, bobyblocking and tunneling, where is my counter? Unbreakable, Flip Flop, Tenacity, Adrenaline, and No Mither (kinda) help counter slugging. Decisive Strike counters tunneling and even more currently along with Borrowed Time. Mad Grit, Agitation, and Iron Will counter body blocking while carrying a survivor, while StBfL counter other moments.
Remember Me won't do anything against a 99%ed door, Blood Warden is COUNTERED by 99%ed doors and NOED can (and will) be removed from the match if the survivors are smart. My only move is to open a door and start the EGC myself which is admitting defeat UNLESS you downed a survivor next to a door and for some reason were running blood warden.
I honestly think Blood Warden in its current form is useless due to the topic of this thread, so why not have blood warden block the doors lever for 60 seconds after hooking a survivor, while retaining its current function if a door was open. The perk obviously can only activate once and can act as a counter for this strategy, while also being down a perk for the rest of the match as a trade off.
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ECG its second chanse for survivors if 1 teammate hooked and u open doors run with gold line and help or run away from map and not help ...silver line annoying
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Then why not add ways to reduce the gap between solo and SWF players? It's really the only thing that is impeding a more balanced flow. There have been several suggestions on the forums that haven't had any dev comments. Hopefully something gets done about this, because as of now, solo play sucks and SWF is fun for only the survivors most of the time.
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My idea would be that you have to hold the exit switch until one of the 3 lights comes on as is currently, but if the light doesn’t come on then it regresses as far as the previous light.
This wouldn’t change things too much as you could still 66% the gate, but it would stop the running and tapping it open with the killer right behind you; it would still only take a second or 2 though.
What do you guys think? The lights are already there and function in this way so I can’t imagine it would be too difficult to try Ruin-like regression and set stop points at 33% and 66%
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