Ruin nerf was like ripping off a bandaid and shoving dirt into a wound, and has had lasting effects
Before you say “ just git gud apply pressure” I’m not here to complain about ruin, I’m here to complain about what’s it’s done to the killer player base. A good amount of the killer player base has quit due to this change, leading to longer survivor q times and matchmaking inequalities. It’s a cancer effect, it’s sad but it’s the truth we can all say that people who left because of ruin are cry babies but that’s not true in my opinion. There’s nothing wrong in dropping a game that doesn’t entertain you anymore, and this new mmr has me even more concerned I feel like they are gonna just turn off matchmaking and just lump survivors and killers in the same match without any kind of matchmaking at all as a cover up....
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And before someone post DBD steam playtime stats/chart/whatever screenshot and saying "BuT pLaYeR sTiLl iNcReAsE" bs
Most of them are playing either "Wait for campfire simulator", "Early die by camp/tunnel/mori as survivor", "Easy and boring match as survivor because you face against noob killer" or "get bullied by playing killer and never come back again"
Heck, Twitch already prove this and i watch otzdarva stream where he get facecamped by basement bubba (And their toxic teammate blaming their own teams)
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Clearly, matchmaking issues are due to algorithm bugs and ranks being shown at the end screen.
Nothing to do with lack of killers.
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They are a weird bunch.
They seem to take a softly softly approach over a lot of changes then sometimes they will just make a massive change seemingly out of the blue.
Ruin of all things - the rubber band which held the whole wonky concept together in some semblance of balance.
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Really?
I didn't feel any difference.
Oh wait...it's because I used it like couple times in the past 2 years before the nerf. Hah.
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So...what? None of your examples account for an increasing/decreasing playerbase. However, you've missed one last example which would be "a normal game in which everyone pips". Basically, you've listed 4 different scenarious a match can follow, missed out on at least one I provided, so...where's your point?
By the way, you can cry about data all you want and claim it "bs". Data is data. And the data shows that since Ruin got nerfed, the playerbase on steam has decreased by 452,9, let's say 453 players on an average which is about 1,9% of the average playerbase in January. Is that considered substantial?
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I'm a survivor main, and tbh I don't like the ruin nerf. I think they could have nerfed it, but still kept it somewhat more powerful. Playing before the nerf, seeing that ruin was like a panic and you HAD to go find that totem. Now when I see ruin, I'm just like "oh dangit, ruin I guess" and don't feel the need to desperately find that totem.
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The devs are gonna "monitor" the change and balance some things out if necessary.
If you translate that they mean that they got no time to look into it atm and are concentrating on other things like dlcs, the rift and cosmetics. The balance team is looking into buffing several trash survivor perks tho.
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That is why games go always faster now even compared to games without using Ruin before. Usually there were one or two Survivors who would just start searching for a possible Ruin before hitting a gen. Now everyone just jumps on the gen.
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Well, if you are going to try to fix the core issues with the game, it makes sense to start with the "band aid" on the top and work your way down. Like any changes they make to the core mechanics is going to be heavily influenced by Ruin, so as a way to eliminate it's trickle down effects on core mechanics, you want to nerf it. Now they can more clearly see what the game is like at base, and therefore they can find better solutions to the issue.
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really? ruin made you panic? its the most basic thing....
If anything the rework is far more panic inducing, here you are, 70% on a gen, and the killer comes and chases you off, bye bye progress.
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My queues haven't changed much. They've actually been a bit faster.
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The must have had stats from Ruin-less games before they took it away.
I don't believe the idea that they took it away so they could then look at solutions. Even they are not daft enough to take away the Band-Aid with nothing to stop the blood coming out.
In their world they already had a solution which was 'New Ruin'. To them that was a rework not a nerf. That was the great fallacy.
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So glad as a killer I've never ran ruin, this change affected a lot of players by 0 because they never ran it, they all say the same thing, it isn't needed.
Killers are yet to realise they don't all belong in red ranks, so if you keep losing games without ruin you were never meant to be in red anyway, go back to purple/green and hopefully when MMR comes in, you'll be placed correctly and will have good matches.
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I admit a lot of people don't belong in the red ranks. The issue is the killers aren't equal. Many lack early game pressure because of their powers or lack of powers. Ruin was a half ass solution for this. No matter what killer your using you need to bring some sort of gen stopping perk to stand a chance against decent survivors. If they want to rush gens there's not much you can do about it. No amount of pressure is going to stop all of them without slugging because there's 4 of them and 1 killer. Most killers don't have a means to end chases in 15 seconds unless the survivor screws up. You shouldn't design a game to be balanced around one side making a mistake. If both sides play well survivors outplay killer every time because there are more of them. You can't apply pressure to all 4 at once. Even if you managed to injure all of them they can simply choose to ignore healing themselves and finish gens for adren. The problem is the core mechanic of this game. The gen speeds need to be adjusted depending on the killer being used. Perks don't fix anything, they make it worse. What might be great for the M1 killers can be OP on the meta ones.
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Get ready to get a ban/warning OP for using the «C» Word in a post.
Making light of a serious Sickness is no joke, Even if used to make a point.
if your quick enough you can Maybe Edit it out before they see it.
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There is a methodology in game design where you make sweeping changes to see how the game truly works.
If you want to see the true impact something has, double or triple the effects (or conversely cut the effect down by half/a third). This will paint a better picture of the true nature of the game than if you just incrementally increased/decreased the effects by 10% every update as the actual impact of such changes will be much harder to pinpoint.
Also they said they were changing Ruin as a first step. You can't make too many changes at once or else you don't know what change had what effect on the game. It makes total sense to drastically change one thing (Ruin), let things play out for a few months and monitor the impact on the game, then take the next step. Results for this don't happen overnight.
And I'm pretty sure they have an idea what the problems are, but you can't just assume things. You need data and evidence to support it. Otherwise you end up changing things haphazardly which have negative effects in the long term. Like yea, we all know gen speeds are the problem. But just increasing the time it takes to do gens is not a viable solution when 1) gen times are tied DIRECTLY to hook times, 2) increasing gen times has a disproportionate effect on lesser skilled players, and 3) there are so many variables you need to account for that any changes made can have serious cascading effects that were unintended. So they need to take a scientific approach, nail down exactly what it is about gen times that is the problem, find a solution that solves the problem without causing more problems, and do it in a way that doesn't fundamentally change the game. That's not an easy task and the actual solution might not be so intuitive that it's really as obvious as some many think it is.
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it is not needed but it sure makes playing characters like Trapper and Hag much much easier. nothing like seeing three gens pop as you are setting up traps!
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Then plank should be lowered. Let more killers feel like they actually belong in red ranks (when they actually don't) so they can somehow feel justified to be placed against red rank survivors. Because current state shows that killers that deservedly placed in low ranks get matched against ranks where they don't belong. No way I can tell that some survivors don't belong in red ranks, that's a blasphemy.
Oh, right, that's what new MMR is about. Can't see the rank - can't complain about it. Like with SWFs - if you can't see that they're in a group, you can't use it as evidance that you're always placed against groups.
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New ruin is actually an incentive to keep repairing a gen which results in gen rush.
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yeah enjoy doing that when someone is on the hook....
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Ruin was a bandaid on top of a staph infection. It didn't solve the base issue, and only benefitted against low level players.
Experienced players destroyed it immediately. Don't give me that hit every perfect skillcheck horse #########. You had to solo every gen because it would stop dead even if you hit every one. And there was a pay to win perk Stakeout that countered Ruin.
New Ruin rewards aggressive play by allowing you to not have to stop to kick a gen.
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There's a reason why the game hardly grows in players, every month of "growth" (usually an update) is immediately followed by a drop in players.
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"statistics dont matter, just how I feel"
ok bud.
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Hm kinda agree. I stopped playing killer since the ruin nerf but not because I cry about ruin nerf, I never used ruin though. I stopped cuz the devs still didnt do anything about earlygame pressure. And that is not fun at all, tryharding for every single game. I cant even do my killer dailys relaxed cuz survivors just try to genrush every time. If you know how to apply pressure you can do just fine with a 2k but still.. its not fun to sweat for every game unless you get baby survivors that cant even loop, but thats a different story with the broken matchmaking.
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I think what was nice about old ruin wasn't really the smaller area to hit. Any survivor skilled enough could do it with little practice. What was good about old ruin was the no generator boosts for greater skill checks which are massively easy to get. If that part of ruin stayed I'd be of the opinion there's no reason to complain about ruin because it offered the gen slowing effect killers want but also would offer survivors the effect they want for it to be easier to go against ruin and hit the zones. 80 second base is fast enough. That part of the revert is the balance for both sides imo
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Don't forget that DCing to deny a killer a 4k or challenge is also legit in their handbook.
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The truth is those killers didnt know how to play well without a placebo effect. Nothing less.
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And there is no need to, since if you leave the generator you'll lose progress soo you create a mentality that you got to finish this gen
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As survivor I like the ruin changes the games are more fun ...
but as a killer games do go by very fast now I’ve been playing killer and survivor 50/50 but I have not played killer in like a week as much as I used to..and if I do I only play spirit
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It’s bad ‘cause sometimes no body saves until they finish the gen first.
well, bad for the hooked survivor and good for the killer.
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I've always thought Pop and Corrupt were better anyway. I run Small Game and would usually cleanse the totem at most like 60 seconds into the game, if not immediately. I think the killers I'm going against now are better, to be honest. Ruin was way too strong on console. I realize it might have just slowed the game down on PC, but it was an almost guaranteed 4k on console if not cleansed. I have more than 1000 hours in this game and truly, I've had 2-3 games ever where everyone made it out while Ruin was still up. Does that seem right to you? I get why killers are upset, but I don't think people considered the affect Ruin had on all skill levels and all platforms.
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i think the ruin nerf was a bad idea. i don't think it was too strong at all, they broke something that wasn't broken. i guess i just had a different experiences than you. most of the time, the games i was in, the survivors would just do gens with the ruin and power through them. i found that it was quicker to do a gen than waste time looking for it and usually someone else would find it fairly quickly.
you say that no one considered the affect ruin had on all skill levels, but don't forget, at some point EVERYONE was new to ruin and no one was good at it when they first started the game. survivors started getting better at it the more they played. its like anything, the more you practice the better you get so why have they decided to nerf it now?
in my opinion, ruin wasn't that common in the lower ranks anyway. i just feel like the devs have used that as an excuse. next thing you know, they will remove all gen skill checks because rank 20's can't hit them.
my point is everyone has been in the same situation before so why does it all of a sudden matter now? or is it because the matchmaking system is changing and the lower ranks have no chance against the higher ranks who actually use the ruin. fyi, the lower ranks don't tend to have a chance against the higher ranks anyway. even with the broken matchmaking now the lower rank killers i've been matched with have all given up or can't even hook someone. its not their fault and it feels bad. the nerf to ruin makes it worse for them. but thats just my opinion, i know a lot of people won't agree with me.
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People are complaining not about ruin nerf itself but about it's a 100% big buff for survivors. Devs should have given some buffs for killers instead of ruin and considered why killers had used it at 80% red ranks. "Corrupt" is a good perk but it doesn't mean all killers can use the perk because Pig is copyrighted killer. Moreover, ruin has worked well as slowdown perk even if 60 sec life.
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Corrupt is a Plague perk. Pop is a Clown perk. Neither are copyrighted killers.
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I did not say that no one considered the affect that ruin had on all skill levels. I think the people screaming about how the Ruin change destroyed the game for them and are threatening to quit are not considering all skill levels and platforms. One perk shouldn't all but guarantee a 4k, and that's what Ruin did on console unless it was cleansed quickly. I never complained about Ruin - I decided to run Small Game and prioritize totems because it was nearly impossible to win a game without cleansing. I can't tell you how many games I single handedly have done all five totems and have taken NOED out of play too. But yeah, without a doubt, I think Ruin was too strong on console.
I am not kidding. In more than 1,000 hours in this game, there have only ever been 2-3 games where Ruin wasn't cleansed and all survivors made it out. You don't think that's insanely strong? Do you play on PC? Do you have any idea how difficult it is for the average player to hit great skill checks on console?
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I always knew ruin would get nerfed one day. However, I thought that would happen only once BHVR sorted the game out to the point that ruin was no longer needed. This game is pure misery for a lot of killers as they simply have no way to combat survivors that refuse to leave their gen until it's finished. Your first hook as killer is usually met with 3 gens being finished. One survivor comes in for the save while the other two go for separate gens. How do you counter that? The only way really is to camp, tunnel, and/or slug. Fun for everyone right?
Don't get me wrong. Not every killer needed ruin. Nurse, hillbilly, spirit, even legion and pig really didn't need ruin. But many other killers did and we're seeing that now first hand.
I'm seriously concerned that the devs are shooting themselves in the foot with the ruin nerf. Hopefully they'll do something about it soon. Surely they can't be satisfied with the game in it's current state. I know I'm not. I want to play all killers and feel like I have a fair chance to win at any rank.
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i still don't agree that it is too strong on console. it's annoying and it takes a bit of getting use to but its definitely not too strong.
like i said, you have obviously had different experiences than me. and anyway, how often does a full team escape even without ruin? i've seen plenty of games where the whole team doesn't make it out.
no i don't play on pc, i play on console. it was hard for everyone to start with and no i'm not awesome at it but i still think you get better over time. i max out my hex skill checks sometimes and sometimes it's a complete fail but i still wouldn't say that ruin was too strong.
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i still don't agree that it is too strong on console. it's annoying and it takes a bit of getting use to but its definitely not too strong.
like i said, you have obviously had different experiences than me. and anyway, how often does a full team escape even without ruin? i've seen plenty of games where the whole team doesn't make it out.
no i don't play on pc, i play on console. it was hard for everyone to start with and no i'm not awesome at it but i still think you get better over time. i max out my hex skill checks sometimes and sometimes it's a complete fail but i still wouldn't say that ruin was too strong.
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Both are under copy protection. They are licensed killers.
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I mean there's a reason I only play facecamping Leatherface as killer now...
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Yep, just another one in a string of hitting killers again and again lately. With no plans for reworks for low tier killers because after Freddy they won't put that much effort into it again.
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