Dead hard shouldn’t be as strong as it is
I believe dead hard is easily the best exhaustion perk and definitely the most popular, it has the potential to turn a 5 minute chase into a 2-3 minute chase to a 5-6 minute chase simply by pressing a button I don’t think a perk should have that much power, yes it may leave you on the ground exhausted sometimes but that’s because of the dedicated servers and latency if you had zero lag you would never have a problem with it.
Furthermore it shouldn’t reward a survivor for making a mistake for example you mind game the survivor and they run straight into you, NOPE you’re not allowed to hit me because I pressed a button that allows me to simply avoid all damage, dash forward and extend the chase even longer even though I screwed up but the killer has to pay for my mistakes.
Not to mention Dead Hard allows you to avoid The Doctors shocks if your desperate enough and even Trappers bear traps.
Meanwhile if the killer makes a single mistake it could cost them a lot of valuable time and even the game if the survivors are good enough.
Will we see a change in the near future involving Dead Hard ? Because 90% of my games at least 2 survivors are running Dead Hard
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Nah.
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Dead Hard is fine right where it's at
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Just the invincibility frames away. Devs won't because they only care about survivors
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The perk would be pretty much useless if they did that. DH doesn't need any changes. Devs care about BOTH sides. A few killers just got buffed and Toolboxes were pretty much nerfed into the ground. The Devs are working hard to make sure the game is as balanced as possible.
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As much as Dead Hard screws people over most of the time, this is bait if I ever did see it.
That's like saying to nerf Premonition because it's unfair that the Survivor knows which direction the Killer is coming from.
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The devs do a pretty ######### job of balancing. If they preformed like this in any other job they would be fired. Tool boxes are still good, just not comically op like they were. In terms of buffs for killers plague got a fountain so she can use some of power. Woah, she might be top tier now! Dead hard just allows survivors to not give a ######### about their positioning. "Oh no i got caught, lemme just dead hard". The fact that it gives invincibility frames greatly increase the value of this perk. Without the frames you can still use it dodge attacks and dead hard to a pallet or vault, but then it wouldn't be insane. The perk is picked a lot at high ranks, the exact same reason why ruin got nerfed. The devs may be "trying" to balance the game but they are doing a piss poor job. This game has always been survivor biased.
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Dead hard is not an issue for viable killers but i can see what you talking about. You will be injured anyway against loopable killer and dead hard allows you to abuse any loop to full extent while keeping you safe in case you screwed it up. But its not like weaker killers are better at other aspects. So its fine.
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Since it doesn't work most of the time because of Dedicated Servers I think it's not an OP perk. This certainly an ok perk though.
The Devs sure try to balance the game so that both sides have a good experience. However, since the Community is very divided on core issues of the game they balance the game for the majority of the players, which are Survivor players. Since Survivors constitute a majority, they mostly have to balance the game around them considering killer players have drastically different views on the issue. Ruin was nerfed partially because of new players.
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Totally agree, no perk should be able to extend the chase by 3 minutes which I have done basically every single game I run Dead Hard.
Not even the killers fault I just pressed E for distance. It even gets worse when you make a mistake and you don’t get punished simply because you pressed E.
“GG EZ baby killer learn to apply pressure” survivors will say as they run off with their dead hard making about 20 mistakes in a single chase.
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I mean it’s a perk that allows you to get away with a mistake when used correctly. In a game where the killer is on the clock and gens go flying, it’s kinda silly to get punished as a killer because a survivor just pressed a button, even though they just made a mistake. Combine it with most of the maps that are insanely large and a basic m1 killer without any mobility and you’re basically done for. You just chased after someone and they got away so you got no pressure in any shape or form.
I’m not saying it’s like this all the time. The amount of times I see people use it badly or it just doesn’t work out because they get downed a second later is still the majority.
Idk how they could change it in a way it doesn’t do that anymore while it still being useful though. They would have to rework it and I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
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Agreed, it's very hard to rework this perk in a way that Survivors will still use it. Chances are they'll start using Sprint Burst or Lithe if DH gets nerfed.
Survivors do profit from the perk a lot when they make a mistake or are near a Pallet at lunge range, and I agree that it hasn't that high of a skill cap most of the time.
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" for example you mind game the survivor and they run straight into you, NOPE you’re not allowed to hit me because I pressed a button that allows me to simply avoid all damage, dash forward and extend the chase even longer even though I screwed up but the killer has to pay for my mistakes."
Except you can easily bait this as killer, it's really not that hard to do. They will waste their dead hard if you just wait for a bit. This doesn't even work most of the time because of dedicated servers.
Dead Hard is strong because you can make distance with it and make it to windows and pallets you wouldn't have otherwise.
Also, sprint burst is the best exhaustion perk in the hands of a really good survivor.
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Learn to play against it, it's pretty easily avoided.
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LOL. Survivor uses Dead Hard and I simply catch them after 3 more seconds. The best is, when you use Dead Hard, it gives you the exhaustion, but the Killer still gets you in the last bit of a second
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Always expect them to have Dead Hard unless you know they used sprint burst, lithe, balances landing, and head on. Dead hard is extremely easy to counter. Instead of lunging right away wait 1-2 seconds to see if they use it. If they don’t then they most likely don’t have it. If they do use it on you then you know have the knowledge that they are running and can wait for them to use it next time you chase them. It always gets wasted and they have one less perk to their advantage.
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People are mostly talking about dead hard when it's used for distance
Dead harding used for I-Frames isn't that bad
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There are surely plenty of strategies to avoid it, such as not lunging early. DH also has a skill cap, but can be used without full knowledge of the perk. That being, the perk itself isn't OP, it's definitely ok though. (It doesn't work most of the time because of Dedicated Servers 😑 )
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I think Dead Hard has a far less potential to strech a chase like that compared to Lithe or BL. Dead Hard mostly allows you to manage one more loop on a pallet, which is max 5 seconds. And if you use dead hard before a window or get the speed bost after a window... I'd say the speed boost after the vault is better, because it gives you way more distance to run past 1 or 2 more loops before you need to mindgame again. With Dead Hard the killer can probably mindgame on the window you just have taken, without following you to the next one.
Also, without servers latency, it would NOT never have a problem. You might not get downed with exhaustion, but you still need the timing if you want to make the killer swing and that is in my opinion the most difficult exhaustion perk to use. With Lithe you just need to press a button as well and with BL you don't need to press a button at all, so not the best argumentation here.
Also, it is easiest to outplay. In many scenarios you can simply wait for the Dead Hard, cou cannot wait for a speed boost. And when you run into a killer and Dead Hard, you almost gain no distance, because you dash into the killer, not away from him. You only get the miss recovery, and that is not much.
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If you can tell me how to play against a sudden speed boost for distance to get to a pallet or window as a normal M1 killer then please do...because you can't.
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So you want to tell me that noone ever baitet DH or played with foresight so that its used for nothing? LOL Do you play this game just since yesterday?
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You can't bait dead hard for distance. Are you high?
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First of all, can we make Dead Hard work on Dedicated Servers before talking about changing it?
Second, if the Devs nerf Balanced Landing, sure there will be more Dead Hards. If you nerf one of the few good Perks Survivors have, it will break down to seeing the same Perks over and over again.
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but it is way stronger than most of the people think. It will never be addressed, so just be prepared when a survivor is gonna dead hard for distance at a super safe pallet, get outplayed nerd.
inb4: jUst b8 the swing!!!
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Noob use: DH to avoid a hit.
Pro use: DH for distance to get to a loop
Solution: make all loops unsafe/mindgameable.
The problem isn't DH. All it did was give them the distance to get to something ELSE that is causing these added MINUTES of chasing.
Dead Hard itself only adds a second or two to a chase. The problem is when it gets them to the next loop. It isn't DH that's strong. It's the loop that's strong. DH was just a means to get to *yet another* merry-go-round or 4.
Make the loops unsafe.
If not all loops, at least the ones that aren't jungle gyms. Leave jungle gyms. Change the rest. And you will see Dead Hards usefulness drop drastically in response.
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You can bait the DH before or you play smart, that they cant use it for distance. Or do you wanna nerf all other perks that give distance as well?
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Read the post above yours for the real problem.
You can totally bait DH. But you can't bait for distance. DH for distance means you are ALREADY out of the killers range, but wouldn't be by the time you make it to said pallet/loop/window. So despite already being out of their range, you slightly increase it further with DH to get the next loop *safely*. Which is an acceptable and smart play to use once in a chase.
The problem as I said above. Is the loops. Dead Hard to get there isn't an issue. It's smart. The loops are what are a bit overturned in some places.
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Let them fix DeadHard first. Then we talk. 50% of the time it´s a useless perk-slot. DH used to be awesome. It isn´t anymore.
I really enjoy seeing the DH-animation and then ending up on the ground, exhausted and twitching like having a seizure.
Before it got useless it seemed that the DH-animation had priority over the killer-swing. It´s not like that anymore. So, I don´t get your point.
DH has become so much weaker. I´m still hoping for the quick fix 8)
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Is there a list where when one thing is nerfed you all move onto the next? Can you guys let me know when it's time for Kindred or We'll make it to be too strong. I don't dare use DS, BT, Adrenaline or anything like that because that's apparently (According to several posts and in game actions) reason enough to be considered toxic and worthy of being tunnelled out of the game. I just want time to figure out what perks won't offend anyone a few months down the line when this seasons hottest 'nerf ticket' comes into fashion.
Thanks! :)
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I’m convinced most people are rank 15 here if they don’t have a problem with DH. All the best players all take it, probably has a 90% use rate among the top tier players.
There’s no baiting it out because its very rarely used to dodge a hit, its always used for distance. I had a game on the ptb yesterday on The Game and I’ve never seen a team of tryhards so carried by Dead Hard. Almost every single chase as I was about to get close enough to swing they use Dead Hard for distance to make it to the pallet. Theres no waiting it out, there’s no counterplay. As people have already said in here 1 button press just pads out a chase for far longer than it should. It really is a crutch perk.
This is the irony in all this. The devs just tore up all the maps and tile spacing because good survivors were chaining together pallets and loops across tiles. Know which perk was often letting them do that? That’s right Dead Hard. DH was the difference between them going down before the next pallet/window or them being given just enough distance to make it.
But you went through all that work to tear up the maps and create who knows what kind of balance issues because you were too stubborn to address one perk so good job I guess.
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Nerf Noed then too
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Dead hard fails to actually function like 30% of the time. 😂 Not the best exhaustion perk. Not a real threat. Next.
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Dead Hard is a very well designed perk and most people who play both sides agree. It has a very high skill cap and is the hardest exhaustion perk to use, and you need a good understanding of killers powers, lunge ranges, object hitboxes, and at this point latency to use it successfully. Dead Hard is more of a tool than anything. If you consider Dead Hard overpowered, then you must also consider bamboozle and spirit fury over powered.
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Dead hard is the single strongest perk in the entire game, accounting for both killer and survivor perks
Imagine if killers had a super lunge perk they could use every 40 seconds to triple their lunge distance and have the hit register before they're done swinging to dumpster on survivors trying to throw pallet down at the last second.
In higher level games, one dead hard is all that you need to initiate a 5 gen chase. You get caught out of position by killer, you run to a weak tile, you throw the pallet or vault the window for a little distance, killer catches up and hits you, you gain the short burst of speed, killer catches up again, you dead hard. This is enough time for you to get to any of the strong chain tiles in the game. Actually this is enough distance to cover the entire map.
Another scenario. Killer is mind gaming you at a very strong tile, like a jungle gym, he successfully mind games you, but nope you have second chance perks, you dead hard into the pallet that he's forced to kick, then you can make your way to the next pallet which should be at least a weak pallet and on some maps it's quite strong, could even be the killer shack. If you just play this pallet, you've wasted about 1 gen of time total for the killer based off of a mistake that you made and you should have been punished for.
When killers make mistakes, they lose the game. When survivors make mistakes it's ok because they have perks to make up for it. Even the infamous noed isn't that strong as it requires you to go through most of the game with 3 perks.
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Have you seen the upcoming update?
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The first scenario you are describing can be achieved with SB and Lithe as well. Those perk even allow you to get to a strong tile even without tanking a first hit. The second scenario is well ... how DH is supposed to work and something you as the killer has to consider as well, when mindgaming a survivor, by baiting the DH out. In some mindgame scenarios you can even block the pallet with the lunge for the survivor, while they DH.
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Since DH gives invulnerability, there is no way to counter play it. The instances where you can bait it out or wait for a swing are instances where the survivor is not utilizing it. You can't always block the pallet completely, it takes high precision. The fact that survivors can turn severe mistakes into wins is why DH is so strong. SB and Lithe have special conditions that aren't always present during the match. Dead hard has a condition that is present in every match and almost every killer interaction with a survivor. You have to walk or crouch everywhere with SB, and most windows aren't nearly as strong as pallets. It is also viable to run two exhaustion perks as well, so you can run DH and Lithe. SB can easily buy you 40 seconds so that you can then DH. DH, SB, Iron Will, DS.
DH can be used to get that extra 2-3 seconds a survivor needs to get to the next chain of pallets and windows to ensure a long chase, or it can be used whenever the survivor makes a pathing error. It's a very versatile perk and punishes the killer for doing what they're supposed to do, hurt and then down survivors.
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Y'know, as a killer myself, if you are having problems countering Dead Hard, then you are either a very bad killer or you have just given up. Dead Hard is just fine where it is now.
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A nurse can't counter dead hard. A perk shouldn't be that powerful against certain killers.
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The nurse literally counter everything else a survivor has. She goes through pallets and quite a few walls. Dead Hard is one of the few things survivors got going for them against a good nurse and even then it usually won't deter the nurse player.
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And then you hit a 1 shot killer and your dead hard is useless. Or you get exhausted on the ground. It's only reliable for distance, and SB / Lithe will get you way more distance than dead hard ever will.
"Can't outplay dead hard" except you can walk straight on top of the survivor and find out if they have it. It's only super tight loops where it can be used for distance that it is strong, and that's probably only happening at the highest levels of play. With the ruin nerf, the dev's have shown they are not balancing around that.
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You're missing the point of dead harding. If you can walk on top of the survivor and have enough time to hit them, the survivor isn't using dead hard properly and it actually doesn't matter whether they have dead hard or not, because they're bad survivors. You don't even need it for super tight loops. You can use it to buy you 2-3 seconds to get to a pallet or a window to continue looping the killer. Or you can use it if you lose a 50/50 juke which then can propel to you either a stronger loop or you slamming the pallet on the killer's face, buying you enough time to escape.
The reason why one shot downs are seen as so strong is actually quite related to the point I'm trying to make. One shot downs do not give survivors that much needed grace period of invulnerability where they can make it to stronger tiles.
I am talking about higher levels of play because this game is absolutely broken at higher levels of play, extremely in the survivors' favor. At high levels of play, the killer has to rely on the survivors making multiple mistakes to win, there is no possible way to win against good survivors. Higher tier killers can juke well, but I have laid out the problem with that, because there are perks that allow survivors to make mistakes and not get punished for it.
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I agree. Dead Hard feels cheap when used to correct a mistake and gain distance to a safe loop.
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If you truly believe that they should be fired, then fire them by not playing this game anymore.
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The problem is you don't get exhausted on the floor using it sometimes it's pretty much 50/50 as to whether it works or not.
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well being exhausted on the ground 3 out of 5 times its not to strong..to be honest maybe untill the devs fix dead hard maybe we can truly say that dead hard its strong..but right now we cant ...with the amount of SYNC problems with that perk...
NOTE: I think dead hard it's pretty balanced as it is right now...WITHOUT talking about being exhausted on the ground...thats my opinion
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Dh is basically a killer perk
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Yeah dead hard is op, leaves you exhausted on the ground all the time, needs a nerf.
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If you honestly think dead hard is OP then you’re either bad at the game, aren’t smart enough to deal with it or just love complaining about anything that help survivors.
Watch any top killer videos and you’ll see that dead hard is useless most of the time
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