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Let's talk about Billy...
Now before you open this thread and start a war between each other over nerfs and buffs and "he's fine the way he is..." I agree with all of those to an extent... See I rarely ever face one, and I assume that happens for plenty of reasons. However I think his chainsaw is something of an interest that might be worth just thinking about. Every killer has something that costs them time to use (especially if they fail to utilize it properly, Example; Bubba's chainsaw move if you hit something like a wall.)
His traversal speed is one of the very best in my opinion given how far he can go next to Nurse alone. It's a one hit down and is menacing as all can be, however in my personal opinion... That just seems a bit too much for him to have (and believe me, we all have seen slug billies) and it may or may not need to be tweaked in a way. Now again, I not here to complain about being downed or having him be too fast with it; I feel his speed and power is what makes him a real threat... However take this into consideration and think hard on it if you would; What if we instead of nerfing him badly or changing him entirely... What if we just reduced the distance he travels when he does it so that if he is using it to try and instantly down a survivor and they are at a distance (especially if it's a big map that's open enough) he has less chances of just riding up like it's a gang shooting and bringing in a sweet kill?
I'm not trying to target any side nor am I picking any in any kind of argument, I play mostly killer and I play a good bit of survivor... I don't claim to be the best but I won't shy away from saying I'm not all that bad either, I just think that everyone is so focused on "nerfs" and "buffs" that no one really sits down to think hard on the little things that could buff out a killer rather than us having to shave down certain things survivors hate and give things killers like?
Comments
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I tried pointing this out and I got attacked for most of my replies. All I can say is prepare for war.
I personally think that he has too much going for him to be the "centre of balance" and too much power in one button.
Apologists will also say that you can just 360 him or his chainsaw punishes bad positioning, which is just wrong. It rewards the killer bad play on both sides. Some generators are NOWHERE NEAR window vaults or pallets that you can use to avoid him and there's no 360 you can do against a Hillbilly tapping his chainsaw to be within 1m of a survivor.
There is also zero punishment for missing/colliding with terrain, unlike Nurse, Spirit, technically Freddy (teleporting to the wrong generator) or Bubba. Not even a cooldown until you can use the saw again!
He can also tap his activation to hover the meter, unlike Pig, Doctor, Deathslinger, Nurse, Spirit or Freddy. One you go for it, it's all or nothing.
Oni, who has basically the same ability, has to BUILD UP his power by using his actual weapon and collecting resource.
Now when you play him like a normal killer, as in use his hammer, he's GREAT! Still really strong, but infinetly less frustrating to go against. It also opens you up to more perks, such as Third Seal or Sloppy Butcher.
By all means, use the saw to bait a pallet. If they drop it, eat it. If they don't then you get a saw down. Use it against teabaggers and punish them for toxicity. Bridge the gap against Adrenaline or snipe people. Have some actual SKILL with your saw!
Saw-Billies are on the same level as BT, DH, DS abusers. You are exploiting one particular feature about part of the game for massive benefit. These people are just getting too great a reward, and only loosing out on some Chaser emblem so they can't double-pip as easily.
I don't like Billy because I've versed too many of them, been hit by too many unfair saws, and had too many apologists just tell me to "Git gud" for anyone to justify his current state to me. Because of his player-base. Because of those who think the saw is a weapon and they're godly at the game for it.
Billy is the popular King of the Meta on console and it's time for a coup. Let's dethrone him already and get some variety back in the game.
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Ohhhhh, yikes. Good luck guys. I’m just gonna hide over here and see how this goes for ya.
(Reminds me of the first time I saw a survivor teammate get moried up close to the thing I was hiding behind....)
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Uh. I havent seen a Billy in months. Im a rank 3 surv on console, and thanks to matchmaking, I get killers from all ranks (gj BHVR). Hillbilly is not difficult to counter. His chainsaw travels in an easily predictable arc, but again, because this is DBD, you are bound to get hit by some bs every now and then. You do realize that M2 Billys are severely limiting their offense by using the saw? Most high rank Billys mostly use it as means to get around the map, because in most scenarios, guaranteeing a damage state is better than maybe getting an instant down, but Im not that good with Billy soooooo..
Also he has hella punishment for running into objects. Oni doesnt, but he has a long ass swing cooldown. And yes, Billy does have a cooldown on the saw as well. After the saw is used, youll hear a lil engine noise, and that means that you can use it again. During said cooldown, you cant attack AT ALL, you can only move.
No Billy does not need a nerf or "tweaking". But you know what does? Adrenaline, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, etc.
So TLDR....git gud
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I wouldn't go so far as to say you're exploiting an ability. And have you ever played as a m1lly? It's boring as hell. Billy is one of the last killers that are super fun to play. It's fine for you to think that he has too much going for him, but he's fine against decent and good survivors. Him and Nurse (and maybe Oni and Spirit to a point) are the only killers that can actually keep up with the speed of a match. Should also say that Billy is one of the last killers that doesn't have any horrific downside or cooldown on his ability and it feels really good.
I also don't get frustrated against "saw Billies" if that's what you want to call them. It's infinitely MORE fun to me to actually have to concentrate a bit more when I'm getting chased. There are a lot of ways to counter a Billy and he can get looped to oblivion. I'd take facing a Billy trying to go for chainsaws over a boring M1 Billy any day. But I guess it's just a matter of opinion. Some people like default killer chases and some don't. I personally don't.
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Funny thing is that lately people have been showing heaps of love and saying how fun Pig is. An "M1" killer who does have pretty severe downsides and can be looped quite easily.
As for exploiting his ability, and I 100% mean this question, how is it not on the same level as BT body-blocking?
Or why should I be punished for where the game places a generator?
I don't believe for a second though that a three second animation is enough of a cooldown. If it totalled 10 seconds, with animation included, then people might throw some hammers and it would be healthier for the game.
Not saying that he should strictly be an M1 killer, but we should maybe not get all of his downs with the saw, maybe drop it back to about 20% of them. 30% at most.
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I like the pig a lot too. In fact my favourite killers to play against don't even have the ability to instadown (Demo, Pig and Huntress iri head doesn't count). I really don't know what you mean with that BT comparison.
He really doesn't need a cooldown that long. He just doesn't. You put a 10 second cooldown on him like that and he becomes one of the least fun killers in the game. Nobody would play him because he wouldn't be a good killer at all.
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BT "tech" is where you unhook someone while you have Borrowed Time, they bodyblock for you and proc the Deep Wounds effect, rather than you getting hit instead.
And the cooldown would realistically be 7 seconds, because of his animation. I just find it unfair and unfun to go from the missed saw animation immediately back into another saw. Especially on survivor!
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Billy is fine he’s easily loopable just learn to play against him or he will capitalize on your mistakes.
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His base kit is completely fine stop whining, it’s his add-ons that need a rework because some lithe the tuning guide ruin the game
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If he didn't get a penalty for bumping into things i might see your point here. However having played Billy a few times...trying to turn was a lot like trying to steer a shopping trolley with a rhino sitting in it. Now, I've seen plenty of Billy's take a corner like a formula one car, but it takes a lot of practice, which is why I suck at him because i spend most of my time running from him than playing him.
If you can move around a loop tightly, chances are his chainsaw is going to hit something and he's not getting that down. Maps like the cornfield are a godsend for Billies but there are also maps that are a complete nightmare.
While I don't agree with you, I will say thank you for an adult and well thought out post however. It can be difficult suggesting stuff like this knowing you might get dog piled for a simple suggestion :)
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And on maps or locations, such as on the MacMillain Estate maps with generators near nothing but a large rock and 3 trees, doing that generator is a mistake on my part, right? Not an unfortunate part of random map selection.
Having a Hillbilly refuse to let his saw down for a second, chasing me for three times as long through a jungle gym just to get a saw down is my mistake too, right? Not rewarding his bad play.
You see what I'm getting at? Hillbilly can reward bad play on the killer's side or misfortune of survivors just as much, if not more, as punishing bad play.
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Billy is intimidating because of his speed and insta-down ability, so it causes some to make mistakes that they normally wouldn't make against other killers. He can be looped and mind gamed pretty hard if you don't get intimidated and know what your doing.
"You gotta have balls.." ~Tony Montana
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Yeah tbh it kinda is your fault. You’ve already made mistakes by working on a generator that has low priority against a killer like Billy. In fact, any generator without any pallets close by is a bad thing, Billy just capitalizes better in this scenario.
As soon as you hear a chainsaw rev, if you’re experienced enough, you’ll know wether it’s a Hillbilly or a Bubba, from then, you should know when to tuck tail and run or just stay away from that specific generator.
I’m not trying to call you a noob, but it sounds like you don’t have much experience playing this game, or at least against Hillbilly if you can’t figure out what a “low priority gen” is and which is not.
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I've been playing the game since Darkness Among Us, consistently hit purple and hit red last season. Low priority or not, it is still an objective and one of MORE THAN TWO that will have to be done on a map that does not allow for safety against that particular type of killer.
Half the time I'm on that generator and hear the chainsaw, it's too late. OR it's the one time that the killer decides to switch targets after someone's come near me.
When I hit purple for the first time, it was nothing but Hillbilly for 95% of my matches. That is a LOT of time having a chainsaw stuck in my back because somebody doesn't want to play the game properly. He is THE single most popular killer on console, and I'm over it. No amount of just saying "just loop him, git gud" isn't going to change that, or the fact that most of the times I take a saw is because the Hillbilly player was braindead enough to rely on their ability for kills unless someone just got unhooked.
My point was that in those situations, it is FAR from strictly a survivor mistake and I'm tired of Hillbilly apologists claiming that it is.
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The skill of the billy player is definitly a variable too. But you being outpositioned makes it really easy for him.
Anyway, how is a killer relying on his ability to get downs bad? Is Nurse a bad killer, because she's not walking around at 98% hitting people with her M1?
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Does Nurse's ability get downs on it's own, let alone instant-downs? Does it let her cross the map in 3 seconds flat? Does it destroy pallets in half the time of kicking it? Can she toggle the charge her blink to get the perfect distance during a chase? OR is this limited only to Hillbilly?
When you add up everything that Hillbilly's chainsaw can do in ONE BUTTON which I highlighted in several posts, then it becomes a problem when people only need movement, camera and their power button and nothing else to do well in a match. You just move, aim and hold power. No real mind-games, or nowhere near Spirit or Nurse. Just walk around the corner, and hold that power button.
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No, but she has an excuse given her speed is far slower than a survivor lol. I think that your right when you say it's mostly based on the given situation and what is happening in it. But his chainsaw is like if Nurse's blink damaged you while she was lunging across the map... Forgive me if I'm wrong but to me it seems a tad unfair for a survivor (now again I don't play Hill Billy so I can't speak from experience as a killer.) I'm just trying to see if we can't all voice ideas on how he could be made more "manageable" by coming up with ideas rather than dismissing them on account of skill, rank or even the map.
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The blink doesn't get downs "on its own", but is used nearly everytime through a match.
Her map pressure with both CD addons/a range and a cd addon is half the time (map dependant) much better than billys.
She ignores pallets man. xD
You can modify the distance you blink with a fully charged blink by looking down more or less.
So no, not limited to billy.
I get what you mean by "relying on the saw too much", but that's just you don't liking hillbilly i think.
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I always laugh when people say that he has no cooldown after using chainsaw . He DOES HAVE A COOLDOWN during which he can't do jack ######### .
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Ok. First off, love the name. I'm a big Slaanesh fan.
Second off, it's a THREE SECOND ANIMATION. That is NOT a cooldown!
Point was that Billy has more map coverage, soft destruction and an instant down in his base kit with none of the limitations that Nurse has. I get that Nurse can ignore cover and what-not, but I've versed and played Nurse and all I can say is that it's WAY harder to get a good Blink hit than a saw no matter what level of gameplay you're at.
It's also an eternal crusade of mine with the warcry "You have a weapon, USE IT!" that I tell just about all Hillbillies. That's not me hating Hillbilly and his kit, it's a case of me having an ideological disagreement with 99% of his playerbase.
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I don’t particularly think Billy needs changes on his base-kit but I hate when people say that he is the “center of balance”. No he isn’t. He’s a bit too strong to be considered the most balanced killer. He’s not OP in the slightest but someone who is great at Billy will win a majority of their matches. Most of my matches against Billy are him winning with the same basic ######### build (BBQ, Spirit Fury, Enduring, Infectious Fright), don’t you get tired of running the same ol’ build 50 times in a row?
I don’t care if people came at me with their torches, but Billy is NOT the “center of balance”. No, he isn’t an OP killer who needs nerfs (besides his add-ons) but he is a bit too strong to be considered the MOST balanced killer (that is if the Billy is good). Getting a 4K with five gens up is not “balanced”.
@PigMainClaudette you have to choose your words carefully or you’ll me met with “git gud” and “play better”.
The most balanced killer IMO is Huntress.
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no
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Thx , it feels good when I see wh40k fan within dbd community
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I did and it still got me those exact statements. Hillbilly was the first of my The Killer Problem series where I highlight exactly what is said here: he has too much in one ability, too rewarding for his skill floor compared to other Top 5 killers, and the DEVS have said balance is centred on Hillbilly. Peanits or Almo can come on here and cinfirm or deny, but i won't force them to.
And I agree that huntress is most balanced.
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You got sniped by Hillbilly? You re just got outplayed by better player !
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Stopped reading after this "Some generators are NOWHERE NEAR window vaults or pallets that you can use to avoid him and there's no 360 you can do against a Hillbilly tapping his chainsaw to be within 1m of a survivor.".
You want all gens to be safe?
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In this video pay attention please to how one chainsaw miss allowed meg to cover such a huge distance to another pallet .
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Insta chainsaw is not the best build . It only takes one short loop to abuse insta saw Billy.
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Not even reading the OP. Billy's base kit is perfectly fine. Only his addons need to be reworked so certain things don't stack.
Period. Only bad survivors think Billy is OP. Including all the boosted usual suspects you see in here.
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If you do that it will ruin some hillbilly players. If some hillbillies plays with both steering addons what you suggest them to play with ? Thompsons Moonshine + what? Addon that reduce chainsaw charge time? it s only more like 0.30 seconds and if i want insta chainsaw im just going to hold m2. Green Engravings? It will work against thompsons moonshine addon. Begrimed chains ? Nerfed to the ground and here s the proper description of what that addon really does as the one in a game is/was false:
- Moderately decreases Repair speed of Survivors injured by the Chainsaw for 120s.
- Survivors injured by the Chainsaw suffer from the Mangled status effect for 120s.
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No. Billy is what a well balanced killer is. All killers should look at bIlly as a standard.
If you limit the distance of his chainsaw all you have is a Bubba that can only down 1 person. Look at bubba now... I personally believe billy should stay as is and be looked at as a standard and buff other killers to be on his level.(Clown, Trapper, Wraith, Bubba etc) This way when we play survivor we will see all types of killers and not the same 3.
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Referring to charge time, really.
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Stopped reading? Then don't comment. You missed the point, clearly.
The point of that statement was that heaps of people just say that I'm out of position when that is one of the few points remaining to do a generator, which happens to be in an open area, negating the redundant argument of "you're out of position".
It is a mute point, and people should stop championing it. Not every engagement is made optimally and we should stop treating each other as if they are.
Certain generators are safer from certain killers. That way all pallets are safe, but not all the time.
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Huntress will never be the most balanced killer untill the maps get fixed. She's on the weaker side right now IMO.
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There are more gens to fix not only the ones you mentioning. And you re out of position only if you stay on that unsafe gen until the very last second abusing hillbilly limits as he doesnt have that much of steering by default.
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Ok, but the point is if there is 3 or more like that, then they must be done making the argument presented irrelivant. Not every generator will be safe, so saying that I have bad positioning is incorrect since I'm forced to be there.
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And what would be your example?
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MacMillain Estate, the one with the long shed. There's a generator by trees and rocks, generally near an exit gate, one down a two-way path with a pallet at one, or has a single way in and usually a generator next to the pile of logs.
Pretty unsafe against a majority of killers. The second one can be useful against Huntress.
Or how about Ormond with one on a hill, another near some logs and the open just outside the house on the other side?
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MacMillain: so yeah there are 2 unsafe gens at the best. But if you re not waiting for a killer to come right at you you can make it to pallet close to some structure. And that case you describing is usually 3 gens which survivors can avoid .
Ormond : the one that is on a hill has structure nearby. Gen near some logs has structures on the both sides and the other gen as well.
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careful what you're agreeing. We don't want another nurse where all they did was trash her add-ons and "slightly" tweak her basekit
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Why would we make changes to the most balanced killer in the game?
People just want EZ escapes I guess.
Let's just nerf Billy so we can play against Freddy, Doc, and Spirit every game at red ranks. That sounds fun.
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This whole thread is a yellow rank mood. Nothing here should be taken seriously by anyone with an ounce of looping knowledge. By the looks of it, I'm pretty sure the people agreeing with Billy nerfs would love for another 1.9.2. to happen again.
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All killers should be Billy standard eh?
Legion goes FF. Downs entire team in 20 seconds.
Clown slows down target then one hit downs them inside gas cloud.
Wraith uncloaks, downs you instantly.
Demogorgon shreds you down in one hit.
Myers starts in perma tier 3.
Plague always has red vomit.
Iridescent hatchets now basekit for Huntress.
Ghostface stalk time is now half a second.
But it's ok because you can loop them.
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Smh, you guys just cant handle billy's cuteness can ya? Those soft neck hairs, those curvy bumps, those bright eyes, his beautiful face and those cute stitches. If you can't handle his cuteness then quit the game.
But seriously I agree with you.
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He is NOT the most balanced killer. That'd be Huntress.
It's not that we're agreeing to nerfs, just acknowledging that Hillbilly has a bit too much going for him within his kit. It's as @Tactless_Ninja said with adding all the instant-downs base.
However, I do agree with you that every other killer should be buffed if Hillbilly is this mythical "centre of balance" since he is regularly top 3 for power. Some like Pig could be better with a few number tweaks, while others like Clown need the Freddy treatment.
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Hillbilly with specific add ons is who you pick when you want to 4k but aren’t that great at the game.
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Ah yes, exploiting the game by using a killers power for it's intended purpose, BHVR get the ban hammer out ASAP. And while we're at it, gotta ban the Wraiths that use their bell to go invisible, everyone knows the only allowed use is to play a rousing song for the survivors.
Billy base kit is fine. Instasaw and crack Billy are busted, because CTG is a broken addon, but everything else is fair. Billy is counterable if the survivor is better than the killer: I have seen top tier players get absolutely shredded on Billy because survivors knew to stick close to vaults and not allow themselves to get caught out in an area with no cover. Billy is strong, definitely don't get me wrong: he was one of the few killers pre-Ruin nerf that didn't need Ruin, but he's still not OP by any stretch of the imagination. He's a killer with a moderate skill floor and a very high skill ceiling (curving is something I'm terrible at, even with almost two thousand hours in the game).
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Only Billy thats busted is stacked charge speed add ons. You remove his mobility hes just Leather face. You remove his one shot hes just a worse spirit.
Dont get caught in the open, thats where he thrives. If youre on a gen ALWAYS have a plan of where to run and listen for chainsaw sounds.
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Again. Power is not a weapon. I'm not saying don't use it, I'm saying don't ONLY use it.
And I agree that he's strong and not OP, BUT I think that his skill floor is lower than you give credit for.
I did also say earlier that my main problem with only using the saw is an ideological difference. I main Pig and like to use her dash as a primary attack before starting a chase, use Billy's hammer a lot and think that new Freddy is actually fun to play.
IF Hillbilly's combination of an instant-down, highest mobility in the game and destruction weren't all tied to a single button press that took no time to activate, then sure. Gold standard. But they are one button. One that can be toggled and held, unlike most powers.
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No killer should be able to traverse the map in seconds like he does.
It's too much map pressure.
I know, give him an addon when he chainsaws one survivor, he loses his ability to chainsaw for 2 minutes and he becomes a normal M1 killer at 115% speed.
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