Bring back the early game
Yep. Perfectly fine. Totally not like doing a generator in 52 seconds, without using any toolboxes might I add, is at all anxiety inducing for an inexperienced killer.
It's not like any killer could've done anything about this from happening. And then the second gen popped a minute later.
Can we please add back an early game and make the endgame a little less strong?
As a side comment I don't like how this clip just starts with a ranting thing. I just saw it in my feed. Clicked it because I was bored. And had to do a double take when a gen popped at 0:52.
Comments
-
Oh, a tru3-video where he gets a 4K.
How unique.
18 -
"It's not like any killer could've done anything about this from happening."
Actually discordance works pretty well against this?
3 -
And killers can teleport to the gens?
Killer can't pressure more then 1 survivor at a time in the early game unless survivor allows it(by bad play for example).
That means 2-3 gens always get done during firest minute and a half. Hence: No early game
5 -
Actually, quite a few times i saw discordance highlight 2 gens on both ends of the map. You can only protect 1 gen at best in those case
5 -
Which is ok, because the goal for the Killer is not to prevent any gen from being completed. In the video linked 1 Gen was left, so the Killer did his Job.
2 -
I don't think your actually getting the point of the thread
3 -
Fair enough I definitely understand that, just as a survivor of course you do have those games where gens go very fast, like this morning I actually felt so bad for this pig who was in a chase with one survivor the whole match and didn't even get a down.
But at the same time I also had a match where a deathslinger with infectious fright downed everyone in less than 2 minutes and I Michael who got everyone with 3 gens to go.
I just don't think it's fair with people being so objective over gen speed and gens "guarenteed" to go in the first 2-3 minutes as said above, it's VERY dependent from game to game. Doing something like extending gen repair time would be horrific especially in endgame, nerfing gen speed with 2 survivors working on a gen or making skill checks more difficult maybe could work?
1 -
Its another "Gens go too fast, here is a video of tru3 where he wins in the end anyway"-Thread.
We have a bunch of them already.
7 -
So wait it's OK for killers to have no early game?
0 -
No its asking for an early game. As it says in the title. And in the thread.
0 -
While that's true, but losing a gen where you can't do anything about it is not a good design and not a pleasant feeling.
It basically gives survivors a free head start
2 -
To the original poster, just no. Generator speeds are fine.
You totally ignore the survivor perspective. All the survivors died! Killers are getting 4 kills and you still demand nerfs to survivors?! It is absurd how much killers demand this game be tailored to them. The game is already so absurd tilted their favor. The second the killer encounters their first survivor the killers is going to start snowballing because anytime a surivior is running/healing/sneaking because of a killer, they aren't doing gens.
0 -
Nerf russian killers instead, smh
0 -
You must not have that many good teammates then because every single second someone is running away from the killer is a second those other 3 survivors have to finish a gen.
Why does it matter if he still ended up with a 4k or not? 60% of the survivors objective was 2 minutes in the game. How can you possibly say that’s fair? It puts the killer under stress and they’re forced to slug and how is this fun gameplay for both survivor and killer?
The “but he still 4k’d” is such a weak argument in my opinion seeing how it’s still unfair towards the killer with how easily the survivors can complete their objective compared to how much harder it is to do for the killer who’s under pressure, not necessarily because the survivors are better than him, but simply because of gen speed.
Besides, Tru3 does this stuff for a living. He plays this game 24/7 so he might make a comeback whenever this happens to him but what about the casual players? I mean they nerfed Ruin with the casual survivors in mind, didn’t they? So why not do something about the survivors objective for the casual killers? Not saying they should make gens take longer to finish because that would be boring and I honestly doubt it would do much.
That said, OP was more referring to the early game. The part where the killer lacks pressure by design, so no it’s not just another one of those let’s-complain-about-genspeed-threads
0 -
It matters because it shows that even with generators speeds, killer advantages are so huge they can still get 4 kills with generators speed is mute.
Killers are so selfish. You aren't even happy with 4 kills now. You want 4 easy kills now. The killer demands will never stop.
0 -
I love how the video immediately starts out by him talking bad about survivor mains again and pretending killer mains don't do the same. Sure, I've never ever seen a killer wanting to dictate how survivors should play the game. That guy is so set in this killer vs survivor mentality, it's really not healthy.
Regarding the actual topic, having a gen pop before the first minute of the game is pretty normal. Things slow down much more once you start hooking survivors and you have to patrolless gens. I'm never quite sure whether I agree that gen times are a problem or not. But this video definitely doesn't convince me.
0 -
People are missing a couple key aspects of this.
1) Tru is a rank 1 caliber killer who is capable and quite effective on every killer he plays. He dedicates a lot of time to this so him getting a 4k is usually based on the fact that he is very well versed in the game (and the fact that he's also a red rank survivor helps him understand the game from both ends) and isn't necessarily indicative of what the average killer experience is.
2) Tru uses an Eboni Mori in this game, which is the only reason he gets the 4k, had he not had a Mori, they would have completed the last generator and Tru would have likely been looking at a 2k.
3) Even with getting the 4k with the Mori, Tru BARELY safety pipped, with a silver emblem in gatekeeper.
4) While discordance can help locate multiple survivors rushing the first gen, once the killer finds them, unless it's something like Legion that can injure multiple at once really only the survivor being chased needs to leave the gen, once other survivors realize they are not being chased they should immediately return to the gen.
So after that's out of the way, here's a take.
Generator speeds are a problem for killers more because of how stupidly designed gatekeeper is than anything else. If gens pop early, that is already looking at a silver gatekeeper emblem, which makes pipping almost impossible for higher rank killers. It's pretty disheartening when 1 minute into the game your goal turns into "just don't de-pip". This could be fixed by changing the gatekeeper emblem to be how long did it take the GATES to open, and not how many generators are left, particularly when there is times killers will sacrifice certain gens to setup a good 3-gen strategy.
Generator speeds are not a problem for high rank killers who are intimately aware of this concern and usually setup their perk builds and addons accordingly to counter it. I hate the fact that I have to play A LOT of Freddy when rank reset comes to climb back to the rank 2-1 but no other killer right now has his level of map and generator pressure so that's the world I'm in right now. A newer killer player is not going to know this and suffer a panic attack when two generators pop 2 minutes into the game. Particularly if that new killer player is on a lower tier killer like Legion, Clown, etc.
Bottom line generator speeds are in a weird place because most high rank killers have adapted either through use of perk builds, addon setups, or just acknowledging that you need to go into a game trying to setup a 3-gen, but newer players are going to have a much worse time as they haven't learned nearly enough efficient movement and map presence to counter getting on the backfoot so quickly. The sad truth is I don't know if there's a solution, slowing generators down would make it pretty easy for red rank killers to dominate, but currently killer has a pretty unforgiving learning curve due to current generator speeds.
0 -
Not a great example video.
While it is obvious that most maps are survivor sided, this new map is not. It's actually probably a bit killer sided. If gens aren't going super fast on this new map, it's probably going to end up being a 4k.
And while Gen speed may seem like the culprit behind why the killer role is stressful, it really isn't. On the live servers I don't think I have had a single game as killer that hasn't ended as a 4k (or 3k with hatch escape) on this map.
What we should be asking for is a standard size that is adhered to for all maps. I shouldn't load into Ormond as killer and have a very small chance of victory, just as survivors shouldn't load into this new map with a very small chance of victory.
It is so frustrating that people are missing the forest for the trees. If the map is a decent size, generators can be effectively defended, which can lead to longer games. Making all maps similar to the best Macmillan maps would balance this game SO much more than changing Gen times.
0 -
I honestly stopped watching as soon as I read your "4k" comment.
I'm tired of people complaining that gens fly too fast and end up 4k'ing anyways.
0 -
Welcome to DBD with no ruin. As someone pointed out this was a killer sided map and he BARELY won. I can guarantee you that Tru tried a lot harder than those survivors. If they actually tried very hard, he would have still lost. If four survivors want to win, there's no stopping it regardless of the map.
BTW: Tru loses a lot of games, even with the strongest killers.
0 -
Remember, when you get 4k everything they spoken is false even there's a proof that early game is still a problem
0 -
DBD with no ruin...and killers are getting 4 kills. It is almost impossible to escape now even with ruin nerfs. Killers are so selfish.
0 -
the OP specifically references new killers and how crushing the feeling is. I float around in purple ranks, maybe MAYBE scratch red 4 with killer, and each time -- even when finding a survivor early, It's really common for the first gen to go off before I hook the first survivor, and the second to go off before I can make it far away enough from the hook to try to do anything about it. It feels absolutely awful, and I hesitate to remind you that videogames, ultimately, are meant to be FUN, or at the very least emotionally enriching experiences. It makes zero sense that the big scary slasher killer is the one who's on the extreme defensive with a ticking clock over their head, while survivors can jerk around as much as they want and still pull off a victory. The fact that there's just no let for the killer to make even the tiniest mistake, or dare to bring anything but the most meta perks on the strongest killer is such a source of burnout for me, and I feel safe presuming the same for many other players who prefer to play killer. The highest ranked, most popular youtube and twitch personalities do not represent the majority of the experience of the players, and even they find this sort of thing exhausting.
Playing killer almost never feels like you've performed some masterstroke or outwitted the team, and you're under constant pressure. Meanwhile my survivor is constantly in red rank now, and the only thing I ever had to do was learn when to pressure generators, and I nearly exclusively play solo, rarely duo survivor. Yes, ranking is broken, but the fact that the current design of the game rewards survivors for the most braindead actions very consistently, while requiring that the killer be anticipating the actions of 4 separate players at once, and demanding so much more of their gameplay. Not to mention if a killer is toxic to you as a survivor? You have your whole team to back you up and laugh it off in the postgame. But as killer? You're ######### alone and the fact that so many survivors hate you for playing the role that is the entire reason they're even able to play the game drives me into misanthropy and makes me wonder why I even play this game sometimes.
But I get it, you're taking the piss, and I'm writing a wall of text because I'm not doing anything else right now. We all get frustrated and it comes out in our leisure time. You are forgiven.
PS: Take this with a grain of salt, because I'm writing it with about a hundred times that much salt: but I really like how current killer ranking penalizes you for spreading pressure by wounding survivors and letting them break chase so that you can split pressure and force them to heal if they don't want to risk getting downed. Hell, I like that both the ranking of survivors and most of killers is both based around providing a better experience to the survivors. Chase them quick and down them quick, but don't kill them too fast, or you lose points! Protect your generators, but don't stand too close to a hooked survivor, or you lose points! Hit them a lot, and use your power, but don't do anything but single mindedly follow the first survivor you hit and let the other 3 "enjoy" the thrilling gameplay of holding down R1! The new ranking system sure can't come quick enough.
0 -
Yes, because he should get 4Ks almost every game. Because he has thousands upon thousands of hours on killers. Of course he is going to 4k. Stop focusing on the 4K and focus on what happens while he gets there. It's ridiculous that 2-3 gens pop on the first hook every time.
Keep in mind that he also plays survivor, and do you notice how often he escapes (or has the ability to if he isn't screwing around?) Almost every time, and it is far less stressful and he almost never gets 4ked against. Now look back at his killer plays, even with thousands of hours, he still has games that he gets completely destroyed, and gens fly in minutes before he can do anything. This shows what everyone already knows.
0 -
That's logic.
"I played for over 5000 hours, give me my 4k"
Totally not biased there bud
1 -
Why can't you guys just discuss around the topic op made? I don't get it, he opens a thread about a thing that many players bothers at the moment. If he didn't link a video, some of you would'nt have taken him for real a 100% and it's not his fault, that there are not that many videos of players getting stomped to the ground on youtube. There are some few discussions where people actually discuss and share their oppinions on and it's such a bless to read.
So many of you say for yourself you play both sides, but when it comes to understanding of the other side and the possibility of balance issues you seem like there is none. You could change peoples mind about that possible issue by just discussing the topic or giving your point of view. Instead you choose to write someone with thousands of hours got a 4k in the end. I really don't get it.
As for OP: I like the idea of scotts warmup trial. Would love to see that tested in a ptb.
2 -
Why do you need an eraly game if the killer wins anyway? Your unlogical over and over again.
0 -
Well Scott Jund has a really awesome idea that involved slowing gen repairs moderately before the first chase occurs called “Trial Warmup”. I’ve been unable to find this video but I personally thought it was pretty balanced - survivors can still do gens but not to the absurdity of 2 gens in about 80-90 seconds, while killers get that little early game slowdown that compensates for larger maps and gen spawns.
1 -
I've seen the video too, although personally I think it should last until the first chase has ended or one survivor has been downed. But in return make the slowdown like. 33% instead of 50% so if a killer just choses to remain afk in the corner of a map while invisible it isn't as damning
0 -
Because we can't all be otzdava, tr3, scot , monto etc.
If your running on the logic that some can deal with it so that means everyone can deal with it. That in itself is illogical.
0 -
Iam far away to be a top killer and still i consistently get my 2k-4k every game in redranks without any cheap play. how about learning to play this game properly instad of wasting your time complaining for nothing?
0 -
Then good for you. Still doesn't solve the problem for the rest of us. And the only way to have that problem solved is to bring it up on these forums.
0 -
I'm confused as to the problem here?
Inexperienced Killers shouldn't be facing experienced Survivors, they'll face a Meg that throws every pallet instantly, two Claudettes that hide whenever they hear the Terror Radius, and a Dwight that doesn't know what the heartbeat even means.
If they aren't that's a problem with matchmaking; which is a separate issue.
In the clip provided here a gen is completed in 52 seconds. But this is the first gen. There are four left now for the Killer to patrol and there is now less distance he needs to patrol.
Killers don't need to kill everyone every game.
They don't need to down someone before the first gen.
They don't need to find someone before the first gen.
These games are played by people who are playing against other people.
People have bad luck and make mistakes. It happens.
If Tru3 had gone in a different direction at the beginning of the game things could have played out completely differently and it might have taken 2 minutes for the first gen to be completed.
Does that mean that Killers are crazy strong and Survivors need repair speeds increased? No.
A gen getting completed in the first 52 seconds by experienced Survivors that are aware of how to play the game is not a problem.
Maps where the Killer has to abandon a chase or just lose, the massive disparity between Solo Survivors and SWFs, the equally massive disparity between Killers with high mobility and those without, and the inherent weakness of Killers that have no chase power/cannot down Survivors outside of using their basic attack are problems.
0 -
The first gens mean nothing
As long as you can defend the last ones. It doesn't matter how fast the first ones went
0 -
There is no problem. Just lazy players.
0 -
Should I remind everyone that Killers don't actually care about a 4k, they care if they have fun, and losing 2-3 gens at the start of the match isn't fun. Running in a circle more than once is not fun. Punishing a survivor for playing recklessly and then gettting punished for it is not fun.
Do I need to go on or are you toxic entitled minds satisfied yet? Though probably you will just quote this trying to tell me how i'm wrong and that the game is fair that you can 4 man bully any Killer you want.
0
