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BHVR never going to balance SWF?
Why do BHVR continue to ignore a huge imbalance and not fix the SWF on comms issue?
It seems BHVR have changed matchmaking now as I am playing with a rainbow of survivor ranks, this makes it more infuriating knowing SWF groups are made even more powerful by this.
If I play solo survivor I should be compensated with more blood points or be able to do tasks faster or if I play SWF then I should have to spend longer on generators or receieve less bp as it is so much easier ranking up!
Please BHVR pull your finger out and fix your product it isn't fair or fun
Comments
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I don't know if it's an issue with taking in statistics that are too broad, but the statistics they revealed to the public was a comparison of a 4man swf or solo. Like as if 2 man and 3 man swf didn't exist, which common sense would say that when playing normally you are playing survivor with friends, unless you are a survivor main that tries to farm BP off solo survivor. Which at that point anyone with common sense would play Killer knowing that they would have a better solo experience and gain more bp from it even if they lose.
Honestly I don't know why they refuse to balance the game around swf, or at least add a voice chat to the game like League, Overwatch, or many other games have.
inb4 the "I don't want to listen to 12 year olds yelling at me" or "I don't want to hear people blaring music" comments - like as if you couldn't mute them.
"No one will use it anyways" - Then that is your choice not to use the tools provided to you, the majority play with at least 1 other person.
"I wouldn't use it" - That is also your choice.
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But I dont have a mic :(
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The devs are biased against killers based on their actions.
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Simple fix. SWF = KYF = no bloodpoints or pips.
Play in your group like normal, in a normal game with other normal players. Bring items, fine and dandy. Nothing changes in this regard. But if you want to actually progress in the game, by golly you’re gonna do it on your own!
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Because it would require work. They've said they want to 'balance as they go,' and 'if a new perk seems to favor swf, they won't do it.' That's easier than going back over components already in place and adjusting them. I know they could do it, Kindred is a great example, but it's really their only example, sadly.
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Though 1 player taking Kindred on a SWF is 100x stronger than a solo taking Kindred for themself. Buffing a perk into a stronger information perk doesn't close the gap between solo and swf, it just makes solo and swf stronger equally. SWF is so strong not becuase they get the best use out of perks (that's a great benefit) but it's because they can play with the equivelent of additional perks for free for information. Meaning they can optimize on second chance perks even more.
I hope I explained that well for anyone to understand. @Peanits
The one and only issue is that solo does not have the same tool as swf and that is voice communication. Once that gets added for solo's, and then dev's start balancing around SWF the game will become more fun for Killers, and the matchmaking will start to balance out to where it's supposed to be - making rank easier to balance, and thus making it more fun for solo's.
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Thats...a horrible idea. People shouldn't be punished for playing with friends and punishing people playing with friends = less players. I know most people who would leave the game if the devs made that a feature since playing with friends is one of the main ways people enjoy dbd.
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Yeah sorry but if they remove SWF, this game would be dead. Dead by Daylight is not enjoyable solo queuing as a survivor. Most of the time our teammates are potatoes and its impossible to tell whos going for a save; which results in 2-3 people all going for 1 unhook or worse... No one going for the unhook because they assume someone else is going for it.
You want to kill DBD? That's a surefire way to do it; because we wont be strictly doing custom games just to play with our friends.
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OOO says hi.
A basic location perk for survivors in a solo queue.
A complete knowledge of the killers movements at all times in an SWF with comms.
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You can't balance swf and you can't balance for swf because of solo. all you can do is swing for the middle and hope for the best.
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Something is seriously wrong with BHVR that they haven't addressed it.
The idea that Killers/Players are refusing to play SWF's is huge. BHVR don't identifying SWFs and making it more difficult to identify them on load in now.
I've heard the arguements that it can't be balanced which is fine but something to help should be in place.
The best idea I have heard is for a similar to Thana slow down on SWF's actions multiplied by the group e.g. searching chests, cleaning totems, working generators etc.
I mainly play solo survivor and don't know if I have done well with solos or have been carried with a 2 or 3 man SWF on comms each trial!
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Balancing for SWF would punish the solo player base such as myself.
I get the complaint from a killer standpoint. But it would take something special to "fix" without hindering the solo players.
It's tough on all fronts. Not as easy as "Devs please fix" and they go "oh yeah. Our bad" and its patched.
It would take something off the wall to fix it. Some crazy solution like adding a generator for each SWF member. Or having aura pulses on survivors. Making Kindred part of the base kit for everyone to make it more like SWF and then buffing killer accordingly. Not an easy fix regardless.
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My recent lobby "purple rank" experience.
- Balanced game. 2-2 SWF.
- 4 man SWF - dodge.
- Asian 400 ping server - dodge
- 4 man SWF - dodge
- Asian 400 ping server - dodge
Please, give extra BP 25% for every SWF member, atleast. Or split game mods: ranked (two SWF members maximum), casual (play for fun against random killer)
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The game is fair in this aspect. Only problems are 4man-SWF that are traharding, but on the other side, you also have those players playing OP killer with OP-Builds and OP-Addons and Ebony Mori that tryhard the exact same way. So its equal on both ends.
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How would SWFs being slowed down affect a solo survivor?
An example would be a 15% mandatory for being in an SWF then an extra 10% per player in group
4 man SWF =
100 - ( 15 + (15 x 4))
100 - ( 15 + 60 )
100 - ( 75 )
= 35% speed per player
Team speed on a gen = 140%
0 man SWF (4 solos)=
100 - ( 0 + (15 x 0))
100 - 0
=100% speed per player
Team speed on a gen = 400%
2 man SWF & 2 man SWF =
100 - ( 15 + (15 x 2) )
100 - ( 15 + ( 30 ) )
100 - ( 45 )
= 65% per player (for both SWF's)
Team speed on a gen = 260%
3 man SWF & 1 solo =
100 - ( 15 + (15 x 3) )
100 - ( 15 + ( 45 ) )
100 - ( 60 )
= 40% per SWF player
+
= 100% for solo player
Team speed on a gen = 220%
Implement this and tweak around the 15% numbers and we have some balance to this game. It isn't perfect but it is somewhere to being fair to all sides. Killers wouldn't be looking at skipping lobbies, solo survivors would be rewarded, SWFs could play with their friends and BHVR could display SWF groups. This is likely to split SWF groups as this is a nerf to their power, but a fair nerf where a base could be balanced from.
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Why? To bully SWF-Players? Surely not.
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Anyone wish to comment whether this idea (stolen by the way) isn't a great idea?
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I'm stealing this. It's too damn good.
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It is equal, but you dont need to promote this scummy gameplay against every SWF, cause the most of them arent anywhere near that tryharding types.
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SWF just aint that difficult.
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At this point I'm pretty certain It's never going to happen. It's been years.
They know the solution of buffing solo and killers and have said they want to do it for the longest time now but nothing beyond that.
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I'd have thought building the foundation of attempting to compensate for SWF on comms before playing around with killers, perks, add-ons, maps etc...
The Thana like nerf for SWF would be very easy to implement... perhaps they don't want the game balanced as it would explain why Moris, hatch and hatch keys are in the game
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The Sabo and Kindred rework are representative of these "solo buffs."
There's nothing useful or substantial coming down the pipeline.
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You do not want to understand, right? No surprise.
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I respectfully disagree (and I’m just putting this out there, I’m not pushing for some salty argument. Seen too many of those, eh? 😏)
Anyway, I believe that this would be the purest way to level the playing field for all players. It’s not a punishment, it’s an equalizer.
People play SWF for fun, and that doesn’t change with my idea. They can play in teams all they want. The game experience would be identical to the way it is now.
The changes come from the following:
- If they can‘t earn pips, then they can’t rely on friends to carry them. This allows ranks to more accurately represent skill, leading to better matchmaking.
- If they don’t earn blood points (or maybe earn 50% fewer), then this is fair considering the massive advantages available to them.
- They will be encouraged to play solo more often in order to restock on items (which would still be consumed in SWF) and to make rank progress. Solo is what the game was designed for, so we will see a greater percentage of matches played as intended.
As an added step, I would like to see the killer and any other survivor who is solo be guaranteed a black pip when SWF is present in the match. They don’t know until after the match though.
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I can't tell if your being serious right now. I'm guessing you are and I'm gonna say this, this is a horrible idea.
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That not even near to what i said.
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So assuming matchmaking works as intended only one player in a 4-man party (the highest rank) has to derank for their whole squad to be deranked, and then they can't even rank up while playing together no matter how hard they smash killers they shouldn't be going against in the first place? Because that's what your no-pip idea enables, easier and "low maintenance" deranking.
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Why should I play solo survivor in the Situation that you described?
- most players that have reached Rank 1 once don't care to much about it because it gives you nothing more than an achievement. Also there will always be people who make it to Rank 1 as urban blendette who only goes for unhooks so matchmaking would probably only improve slightly.
- kyf is only fun with 5 people, so people that play mostly duo or trio would probably just play less. Or go back to good old lobby hoping to play together anyway.
- people who play less need less BP to restook items (if you even want to restook them, it's not like you need them as surv, and you could just farm them from chests but lets ignore that for the moment). But if you only need a few Bloodpoints you can just play killer at low ranks. Why would anybody who doesn't like to play surv alone not switch to Killer? If you only play a few games per month you can stay easily at low ranks and farm your bloodpoints there.
So in conclusion: I'm pretty sure that your idea would only leed to less people playing and longer waiting times for everybody, but if that is what you are willing to take to not face an SWF I guess it is a good idea.
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I wasn’t clear. What I meant was no rank movement whatsoever, up or down.
The simplicity of this didn’t hit me earlier, but in this idea, if SWF is present, every player gets a black pip and only non-SWF players are allowed to pip up higher than black.
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I'm aware, and that's what I mean. Even if everyone in a 4man deranks as solos, they can then play SWF together forever at rank 14 or something and never rank up even if they belong at rank 1. Of course right now that doesn't really matter because matchmaking gets drunk quite often, but if it works as intended it'd be pretty bad in my opinion.
But then again rank in itself is a weird thing in this game. Depending on the person ranking up and ranking down can both be viewed as a bad thing, depending on their goals and motives.
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I repeat SWF its biggest mistake of DEVS in all story DBD because when add SWF need to work this and think that with voice discord teamspeak programs play easy x100 times :D
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Lol. If they somehow delete swf,(never gonna happen) the game will die the next day. You can't stop friends from playing together bud.
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They're not? Not every swf is a toxic sweaty mess, we like to play the game as much as killers do. Making us get punished just for playing with friends is a horrible idea in general. How would killers like it if we got rid of the ability to gain bloodpoints and pips while they are playing for fun? Most survivors will play with friends because they want to have fun with their friends and still be able to level up characters and complete challenges.
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Reading isnt your thing, right?
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Fixing this would require alot of work. Alot of work which is alot of time.
SWF can not be balanced via handicaps because people will pest solo q in order to end up in the same lobby so they need to make balance changes. I doubt they will ever do that because that is like alot of time they do not have available to push out the next dlc.
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That is crazy, how is that balancing when swf can use the same perks!?
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That is quite frankly some of the poorest excuses I have heard, which speaks volumes for what BHVR haven't done.
Building a game without balanced foundations is concerning. Not a lot of work when Thana almost does the same thing and there are more than 10 programmers at the company. Friends pestering lobby queues can easily be fixed as well with friends lists, who they played with before etc.
BHVR have no excuses as far as o can see to already have fixed this
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SWFs are not as problematic as most people believe. As a killer, I run into maybe 1 out of 6 SWF teams that actually give me trouble.
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To be honest I'm starting to think showing SWFs at the endgame screen would help.
A lot of killers apparently think that any good players are "tryhard coordinated SWF" - which is simply untrue.
Show who is SWF and who is solo and we can cut down on these trash threads...
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They should have Survive with a friend, where SWF no longer exists and you can have 2 people and that’s it
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Ban some perk such as OoO
Specify rarity items and add-on
3 people = can't equip red, 4 people = can't equip purple and red
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just make kindred and bond basekit for solo survivors and that's it.
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Not every SWF plays with mics though. I play with people from all over the world, some that don't speak very good English, so we never chat on mic when playing together. Essentially we are in a solo lobby, I just play with them as I know they're good and reliable teammates.
I always find it odd that SWF gets so much hate, when as a killer, I normally find them the easiest to beat. As most of the time they play so altruistic and focus more on trying to save each other, that they don't end up doing gens and they all get killed. It's normally a lobby of solo Blendette's that you have a problem with. As none of them will leave their patch of grass to go for unhooks.
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Yeah sure, lets kill off the game entirely, that will solve everything...
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Or they could try and bridge the gap between solo players and SWF, like they wanted to do a while back. Something as simple as more icons would be extremely useful. Replace the character icons at the bottom left with what that person is currently doing. So it'll change to a generator when they're working on one or an animated person running to signal being chased. It obviously won't make solo play as good as SWF but it'd be a big step.
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Strange, nobody actually commenting on the solution. Rather talk about usual stuff eg swf aren't a problem, which side tracks the point in the thread. Perhaps I'll repost with details...
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