The Imp! This is how we balance SWFs
The imp is a 6th player. An assistant to the killer provided by the Entity.
The imp is a short, fast little creature that is unable to injure or hook survivors. However, he can help out in other ways:
- He can attack survivors to interrupt actions (like sabo) and make them scream. This does not cause injury. Hitting a survivor gives them very mild stumble. Useful when the killer is chasing someone.
- The imp does NOT have collision with survivors, so he cannot body block them when they’re running or vaulting.
- He can break walls and downed pallets, and can damage gens. He can NOT shut the hatch.
- He has a mental link to the killer through the Entity (in-game comms).
- He gets the same number of blood points as the killer in a match.
A killer joining a match can decide if he wants an imp or if he wants to play solo. If he opts for an imp, he can invite a friend or accept a random player. SWF matchmaking will prioritize imp matches over non-imp matches.
Because SWF is able to use comms, which can’t be considered “cheats” because punishments can’t be enforced, this instead brings the killer up to a level playing field. It also allows additional players, so it is the opposite of “punishing people for playing with their friends”. In fact, it encourages a social element for killers as well. Sounds like a lot of fun to me!
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how much fast? does he share killer perks (like pop)?
anyways, it would be a minor help, unless he could help ending chases quicker (hence why I asked you how much is he fast or if how effective the stumble would be and what's its cooldown) otherwise pretty useless.
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It’s open for debate, but either he matches killer speed each game or he has a set high speed (maybe 120%. Maybe a bit less).
He can help end chases more quickly by attacking survivors who are running and making them stumble. He can also break pallets while the killer continues the chase.
If implemented, there will be several imp-specific perks. (He may only have one or two usable perk slots though.)
His biggest advantage to the killer is the comms. “Hey the survivor is hiding behind this bush. See where I’m at?” “I saw the hatch in the preschool basement”. “He’s in the left locker!” Hitting to make people scream is useful as well!
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yeah, my main issue is also with pre-set comms, most of the times they never work, that's why SWF needs voice-comms.
since an imp could be your friend, we would most likely see a war: SWF teams against KWF teams.
and if killer could talk to the imp, I'm already imaging how to exploit it: like I'm using huntress, being looped at the shack, survivor throws down the god pallet, I wind up the hatchet, he hides behind the box. Now the imp can just break the pallet and I get a free hit".
cooldown are pretty needed, otherwise it might be exploited.
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I don’t understand how that balances SWF. What if someone’s playing killer because they have no friends to play with? That killer would have to have a buddy with them to be effective against SWFs. I get that sometimes you have to put out fire with fire, but this wouldn’t solve anything.
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Weird idea but I like it. Anything to spice up the game and make it less monotonous is good in my opinion (within reason of course). Unfortunately this idea falls under the category of "cool stuff the devs will (probably) never do" just like alternate game modes, different primary objectives, secondary objectives, alternate escape options, 2v6/8 or any other variation of bigger matches, new survivor items, unique survivors, or other roles (like roles besides killer and survivor, which is what this idea would be since it's not technically a killer). There are probably some other things I haven't mentioned. But we can dream I suppose
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The biggest issue I can think of is situations where the killer can run around a loop building bloodlust while the imp destroys the pallets. There would be no need to think about safe/unsafe pallets. A survivor could just be mindlessly followed and downed unless there was rule that said that the imp's abilities are disabled within a certain distance from the killer.
You just have an old legion situation where the survivor can't get away and their defenses are largely ignored.
And then there's moments like what to do with solo players that unknowingly join a lobby with a SWF.
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@YaiPa by comms, I meant voice comms, not text. I should have specified.
And yes, there will be exploits like what you mentioned. But is it exploitation or just effective coordination? Currently SWF has the ability to exploit because if comms. “He’s using Knock Out. I’m in the grass by the shack.” This just gives the killer more ability to coordinate as well.
@Butcher_Pete valid concern, but you don’t have to play with an imp if you don’t want to. Furthermore, you can allow a random imp player to join if you don’t have a specific friend you want to invite.
Beyond this, even if you don’t use an imp, it still benefits you because SWF matchmaking will prioritize imp games. When you play as a solo killer, you will have a higher percentage of matches against solo survivors.
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It's an interesting idea, for sure, however this can be exploited many ways. Since the imp gets the same amount of bloodpoints as the killer, there could be a game where the imp does literally nothing, meaning it's useless, yet still gets bloodpoints with that. So if this was a thing, not doing anything as the imp would give you penalty or ban or it would be a report-able offense, or something.
However an idea of mine like this popped up recently, it's very similar except it's not the imp, but the 6th player would be the Entity itself. Obviously not visible to the killer or the survivors, but the player controlling the Entity would be able to block gens, have a sort of power, block windows and all of these would have cooldowns as well.
This could be a separate mode to implement something new to the game.
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yeah sure, SWF arguably are exploiting too, but they've been in the game for a long time, and they are the power role (in every way, monetary especially) of the game. But, as other people said, we're talking about not losing bloodlust, way more efficient tunneling or camping... we should have to try it out.
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Ooooh! I think I actually saw your post on this a while back! Interesting idea to be sure! In comparison, I think the imp might be more engaging as you’re more of a player than a spectator, but I would honestly be happy with either idea.
You made a great point about bloodpoints. Yes, there needs to be some way to encourage participation from the imp, but I’m not sure how just yet.
Because the imp’s actions are limited, I don’t see him having as much earning capability on his own. I’m certainly open to suggestions in this regard!
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Yes, SWF has been around for a while, but that doesn’t mean it’s balanced. These other suggestions: bloodlust, tunnel, camp, slug, etc. they’re honestly boring for both sides and feel like half measures. (Btw, no offense meant by any of this. I’m enjoying our civil debate! 🙂)
The imp, on the other hand, adds depth, strategy, and various new elements to the game. In addition, he provides indirect benefits to solo players (survivors and killers alike) with his effect on matchmaking.
Finally, his ability to damage gens helps ease the high tensions over “gen rush” that we’ve seen so many complaints on lately. Take red forest for example. He can patrol the far out gens, keep them damaged, and call the killer over to the right area while the killer is working the middle of the map.
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Oh yeah, and as for testing, this would be a huge change. It would absolutely need to go through a PTB phase first.
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You couldn't have seen a post from me regarding it, as I never did one in the first place! The idea of the Entity itself being the 6th player just popped into my head today before I replied to this post.
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SWF isn't balanced, but I don't think fixing something potentially broken with something else potentially broken is a good thing.
I also don't believe that adding the imp would add any more depth to the game. Giving players more options doesn't automatically mean players will utilize them. We have loads of perks for both sides, and every DLC more perks are added but not much more depth is ever displayed.
I'd sooner think the Imp would remove more depth if anything because of the what I mentioned before about the killer building bloodlust while the imp destroys pallets. Can the imp and killer do some high coordinated things? Sure, but why when they can just both double stack on one survivor, easily down them and have Pop goes the weasel cover the chase time. Tracking perks would be redundant. Or the potential to easily 3 gen because the imp can endlessly interrupt survivors. Survivors cannot interact with the imp but still can be affected by that player.
Then there is killer balance. Some killers excel in 1 vs 1 and chases, but those killers are usually slow and still have to locate the survivors in the first place. If the imp was added then changes would have to consider a nearly omniscient killer.
"He Provides Indirect benefits to solo players.... with his effect on matchmaking"
I just don't see how solo survivors get anything from this.
It definitely would help on maps that are too large for most of the cast to defend. Maps like Disturbed Ward, Mother's Dwelling, The Temple of Purgation, Lampkin Lane (IMO I think the problem with Lampkin is the fences and platform gens. One makes it too hard to cut off survivors and platform gens are too safe in general) , but on the rest of the 30 maps it would be a balance nightmare.
I think a better solution is to shrink huge map sizes and have a better tile generator that doesn't spawn pig tree next to a jungle gym and a normal loop.
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Hmmm, must not have been you then. Either way I saw mention of the entity blocking gens controlled by another player. This was about a month ago I believe. Sry about any confusion there.
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Fixing something potentially broken with something else potentially broken sounds absolutely terrible in those terms! Lol. 😄.
However, what if it was seen as temporary?At some point there will probably be a truly balanced approach to SWF, and it’ll likely involve some sort of heavy-handed nerf that has players losing their minds. It could ease the pain of the imp idea were removed or heavily nerfed at the same time!
The depth I see being added is new strategy between killer and imp, but also new strategy with how survivors deal with the imp. Heck, maybe let them kick it and send it for a tumble! I would love to see some counterplay against the imp added in (and suggestions are welcome!) Either way, this would be a lot more than just another perk that nobody uses.
Solo survivors would receive some benefit in the fact they they will more often be paired with other solos. Yes, a 3-man SWF will still need a solo to join. But when the game starts with an imp, that solo will know there’s a high likelihood they’re playing with a SWF and can plan accordingly. (Solos complain about SWF just about as much as killers, I’ve noticed!)
I agree that fixing maps would be a tremendous help. We’ve gotten 2 redone in the past half-year, so the rate of change is..... anyway, I wanna be nice here. With the imp, we can actually expand maps and make them huge and interesting, while maintaining fairness. Or, again, he could be a temporary fix until all maps are finally reduced and balanced.
You've made some great points, and I hope I’ve addressed them satisfactorily. I still think the imp would be a lot of fun and could provide for better balance. At least on the short term. Let me ask you this: if a PTB released tomorrow for you to try a few matches as the lil slime-ball, would you be at least intrigued by how it’d change the game dynamic? Would you look forward to the try?
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Need new Imp perks. Different Imp powers and most importantly cosmetics.
So when do we start? Love the idea tbh.
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Awesome! I'm always happy to hear from new fans of the Imp! Honestly, it would be so much fun to run around and wreak havoc without the pressure of being the killer. This might become the most popular role to play!
And yes! Imp skins! So many possibilities here.....
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