Gen Speeds Aren't The Issue. Maps Are!
Hey everyone, so i'm seeing most people complain about gen repair speeds being the issue with this game. Let me just say this, i play Survivor and Killer, i'm a rank 1 Survivor and a rank 6 killer (I don't play Killer unless for challenges). I don't have a issue with generator speeds at all, I mainly play solo as survivor, i can run the killer for a while and half the time my random tms are too busy basement hunting for a chest to get anything done and one will be running off into a wall somewhere...yes this is red ranks.
However i have noticed that certain maps such as Springwood, Autohaven etc...are the easiest maps to escape on and that is purely down to the size of them. So many loops and pallets it's insane for a killer to try and actually feel like they can do map/gen pressure.
Now when i play on Gideon, Hawkins (is ok), Lery's & Dead Dawg. I'm finding them harder to escape on because they're so much smaller and better balanced for the loops etc..
Just saying I get why people are complaing about gen speeds, but perks like Dying Light and Thanataphobia work great in slowing the game down...just wish people would offer up better solutions instead of "Nerf Gen Speeds"..."Buff Killers we Weak"....
Nerf Gen Speeds...do i really want to sit on a generator longer than what I already am holding down the same button? No...I have the most fun on the game running with the killer in a chase...I feel like most killer mains just want survivors to go through something tedious for longer so they can have a "easier" experience at the game. I play killer...I find the game more enjoyable just playing for bp's rather than sweating for a kill, i'm happy with my 4 stack of BBQ and usually i'll get 3 kills a game and let the last one go.
Killers aren't weak. Like i said, there is great perks if you really wanna slow the game down, but you can literally one shot a survivor with like half of the killers on the game. Not to mention being able to Mori them to play with only 3 survivors which makes it WAY more difficult for the survivors. Right now on Killer i'm running, Save The Best Till Last, BBQ, Fire Up & something like Franklins...been having a lot of fun because as the game progresses I can get faster/stronger.
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Personally it is gens speeds for one reason. You can't pressure all survivors. If you're a good killer and you're facing a team of good survivors, with most killers they can get 2-3 gens done by the time you hook a survivor and go to patrol gens again.
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Solo/Duo gen speeds are fine, maybe find ways to limiting only 2 people per generator or increase skill checks if 2 people are working on the same gen...again though i've never been gen rushed on Gideon, Lery's , Hawkins or Dead Dawg for the fact they're harder to find generators and much smaller maps than what we usually play. Solo Gen speeds are fine. It's hard to rely on randoms to come and do a generator with you. It already takes like 2 minutes (without debuffs) to repair a generator
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It is mostly maps and killer dependent. Big maps are going to give you a disadvantage if you're not playing a mobility character. Smaller maps are decent for most killers as you don't have to travel as far between gens. gen speeds above solo are insane for the most part. it cuts the time required to repair in half almost. There's a lot of issues but map size and certain loops are a big issue in my opinion if they're not going to look at gen repair speeds.
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So first off, if you did a search on this topic, this has been brought up a million times already, and yes, most people have pointed to map size being the culprit along with the gutting of Hex: Ruin. This isn't some new revelation.
Second, you're not even accurately describing the problem, which honestly makes me question your killer rank to be honest, and makes it feel like you just said it so you wouldn't get the "survivor main" accusation. Because frankly I'm not sure how you hit rank 6 only playing "killer for challenges". The issue is not "gen speeds", it's specifically 1-2 generators popping in the first 1-2 minutes of the game, usually when the killer has probably only downed and hooked 1-2 times at best. There have often been times where I got a locker grab in the first 35 seconds, and after hooking I STILL saw a generator pop.
Once the first 1-2 generators are popped, the game usually slows down at this point as the killer has gotten a few downs and hooks and started to pressure, however it still feels like a losing war of attrition for many because the killer gets put on the back foot so hard thanks to the early game.
As far as your perk suggestion, quite frankly they don't fix the problem nor are they particularly good perks for generator slowdown. Dying Light is a paltry 3% stacking regression penalty that will do nothing to stop the early game generators popping, and Thanatophobia requires multiple injuries and again, will do nothing to stop the early game generator speeds, maybe good on a killer like Legion, but he's a terrible killer anyway so who cares.
And no, most killer mains are not asking for generator speeds to be longer, most of us are asking for exactly what you pointed out, generator spawns on maps and maps in general not being so effing huge so we can in fact "just pressure the gens bro".
A generic statement like "killers aren't weak" says nothing and is arguably objectively wrong in a lot of examples. Clown and Legion are just two examples of very weak killers at this juncture.
"But you can literally one shot a survivor with like half of the killers in this game"
And there went your killer credibility. One shot abilities that are not addon related include.
- Billy and Bubba's Chainsaws
- Ghostface with full Stalk
- Myers at EW3
- Oni when his power is active
That's four out of 19. I can be generous and pump it to six with Iridescent Head and Redhead's pinky finger. But not only is that significantly less than half (more like a third) all of those abilities have counterplay. Hillbilly and Bubba can be juked, Ghostface has to get a full stalk off, Myers has to stalk to EW3 and even then can still be looped, and Oni needs blood to use his power and then use his dash effectively which can be neutralized by tight corners.
And oh look, more complaining about Mori's while we conveniently ignore keys, better tuck that bias in, it's starting to show.
As far as your recommended build, I refuse to believe you aren't getting absolutely gen rushed when you run literally no generator regression perks. No corrupt intervention, no ruin, no pop goes the weasel, please. Also seems odd you would recommend dying light and thanatophobia to high heaven and then not run them in your build? My guess is you read some tooltips and thought "well why don't killers run these", the answer is many of us have tried them, and they are not effective for the problem.
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For a Start I never said it was any new "revelation"...I'm saying what I'm reading on the forums which is people complaining about Gen Speeds, so instead of replying to all these posts, i thought i'd outright say it.
Second, I do challenges & archives as Killers...I used to be Rank 1 Killer got rank reset to 10, then got to rank 6 stopped playing then Rank reset again to Rank 9, then back to 6 again...got plenty of proof playing Killer at rank 6 if it bothers you that much with your attempt to give me no credibility for saying anything about this issue. I also only said I play Rank 6 killer to show that I have understanding of the game, if I wanted to go to Rank 1 i'd have no issue doing it. It's just a fact I don't play killer enough to do so.
Thirdly, what is the issue with having 1 generator pop at the start if you've got a hook? So now you're saying the Killer needs a hook before anything else happens? I have never seen a case of having 2 generators pop on me with only 1 hook...if it bothers people that much run something like Corrupt..."but survivors hide from Corrupt"...sorry but Killers can't have it all their own way like that...the only case where 2 generators might pop at the start of the game is a SWF team.
As for you saying the killer feels it's a losing war of attrition after the first 2 generators are popped, well no not really because it's less generators to check if you really want to play a generator game and usually if 2 gens are popped they're usually on the same side of the map which then shrinks the whole maps gameplay, sure you'll get the Survivors trying to run you to the pointless areas of the map where you can't really gen pressure but more fool you for falling for it. But again, never had a issue with gen rushing. So i think the 1-2 generators completed in 2 minutes or while the person get's one hook is wildly exaggerated.
For you saying Killer mains aren't asking for gen speed nerfs, just search the forums and see how many posts there actually is.
Also you trying to correct me with the amount of killers that can one shot in the game...it doesn't matter if they're addon dependant or not, add ons are part of the game and it's a way people play and it is their for an option to become a more powerful killer. Literally don't see why people complain about killers being add-ons dependant when the whole point of addons is so Killers can win the game easier. Oh wait, is that not why addons are in the game? Or are they there to just look at...also take note i said "like half of the Killers" didn't exactly wanna sit and count how many can one shot with addons or not, just off the top of my head i said around half pretty sure about 8 of them can one shot with addons or not and there is only 19 killers so yeah I think around 8 is "Like half"....
I will complain about Mori's because they're broken, while fun for the killer, not so fun for a survivor who has just waited 20 minutes to get into a game to die in 2 minutes because they get tunnelled. Not sure why Keys are such a issue but i've never had a issue with Keys in the game. Also not being bias because if i wanted to have a dig at killer mains i'd upright do it. I'm saying I play both and never come across any of these issues most people are having and i'm starting to wonder if it has something to do with their skill level or they're hoping if they spit their dummies out that bhvr will come along and hold their hands for them to get ez 4k's.
I believe in making my killer stronger throughout the game rather than trying to slow the gens down and bore the survivors out of the game with slow gen speeds, this is why I'll always run FUN perks instead of ones that just bore the game for everyone. Honestly it's so cringe seeing Red rank killers running nothing but gen slow down speeds and still only getting like one kill because they really must be that bad at the game.
Post edited by Mandy on0 -
Not gonna bother with a big long response because most of your response comes down to "nuh uh, that never happens to me". Uh huh, sure bud, you're the god of all things killer and we just have to bask in your greatness. But don't pretend your survivor bias doesn't show on a routine basis here.
I had to list some of my favorite examples though.
"Not sure why Keys are such a issue but i've never had a issue with Keys in the game."
OH what a shock, the guy who's clearly a survivor main doesn't think being able to let an entire team escape before the gens are completed isn't broken? What a surprise. Not to mention survivors get rewarded with pips for using keys and escaping, while killers often get stuck with safety pips if Mori's are used as the amount of hooks will tank the devout score.
But yeah, Mori's too op, but keys aren't a problem, omegalul.
"I believe in making my killer stronger throughout the game rather than trying to slow the gens down and bore the survivors out of the game with slow gen speeds, this is why I'll always run FUN perks instead of ones that just bore the game for everyone. Honestly it's so cringe seeing Red rank killers running nothing but gen slow down speeds and still only getting like one killer because they really must be that bad at the game."
Your perks that you suggested do nothing to increase your killers power, NONE.
Do the math, 80 seconds to a generator. Let's be generous and say all survivors are injured (unlikely unless something like Legion or Plague) a 16% penalty would only increase a generator completion time by a whopping......12 seconds.
You call THAT an increase in power?
Dying Light is even dumber. 3% stacking is adding 2.4 seconds to generator time, on each hook, by the time Dying light is doing anything you've killed survivors and won the game anyway.
And a thousand apologies your highness, us mere mortals have to run generator regression perks because unlike his holiness we have to deal with actual optimal survivors on a routine basis and generator regression is a part of red rank play. Just cause you want to pretend you are too good to use those meta perks us plebes use doesn't change the facts on the ground.
Post edited by Mandy on1 -
I say this all the time. If maps sizes and strong loops and windows are fixed, killers could down survivors more easily, and as a consequence of that, gen speeds will go down.
I don't want 2 minutes gens, or 20 minutes matches, I want 10 minutes matches where I can apply pressure without being sweaty.
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I entirely agree. Maps are such a massive issue right now. If you were to fix them, the balance of the game would be so much better. I don't think it's good to just slap on an extra 10 seconds per gen and call it a day. That won't help killers with low mobility on huge maps all that much. If you were to increase gen time alone as well, you'd have games where you play a Billy on maps like Coal Tower, which would be a problem. At the end of the day, I really think map changes are the one solution that will really tackle every issue and most situations presented.
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Yeah there's no personal attack here, I described how he was acting, plain and simple. Sorry it caused you to clutch your pearls.
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Please keep this discussion civil and do not resort to personal attacks - if you are unable to do that, I suggest you move along to another thread! One which you may be able to discuss civilly.
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If at least 1 or 2 gens are done by the time you hook 1 survivor, it's not that gen speeds need nerfing.
It's the fact that you're bad at playing killer and need more practice.
Funny how everyone that suggests gen speeds being nerfed are all just killer mains that rarely play survivor.. If at all.
The thing is killers are overpowered. They have SIGNIFICANTLY more movement speed and all this wallhack "aura reading" vision.
That's not even including each killers unique abilities that also give them an advantage over the survivors.
Then killers have ebony moris. Way too gamechanging they allow them to kill everyone after just 1 hook. Then they camp and tunnel people so they can immediately do the mori. Which is extremely unbalanced and toxic yet I see none of these killer mains suggesting that to be nerfed.
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OK but survivors need no nerfs AT All. That's the thing. Killers are already overpowered. They don't need more than they already have.
No one gets sweaty chasing survivors. I literally eat at the same time or stop and send a text, listen to music or watch Netflix as a killer and still end the game with 4k. It's that easy. Even my 9 year old brother managed to kill everyone on his first try as killer.
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God please tell me this is bait. I might actually lose faith in humanity if this is legit.
Ok good, it is bait, faith in humanity restored. For now......
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Bait?
It's called facts. I mean, actually play the game for about 2 minutes and you'll have enough experience to see everything I've said is true.
Don't get mad if you use mori and only get 3 kills when a 9 year old can get 4 kills without a mori. 🤷♂️
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I'd only nerf DS and map sizes and remove strong loops and windows. That's it. Killers are "OP" already, but map sizes and strong structures nerf them. What good is a killer with a chainsaw that can insta-down you like LF on a map like red forest where walking from one side of the map to the other costs you half of a gen (a complete gen if 2 people are on it), or against a wretched shop window without the possibility of mind games?
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If they can rework maps to make every single gen only solo/duo repairable then hopefully it can make more killers feel relaxing to play. I do wholeheartly agree with you on this whole topic though.
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I like the double down on the bait, thanks for chuckle.
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I like the counter quadruple down on my double down
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Gentime to mapsize to killer viability ratio.
As it would take years to change two of these, its easier to just adjust the first.
Map size has been increasing for every new map.
Killers are still the variable with the biggest variance as survivors and devs are too afraid of lessening the killer tier gap the correct way, pull it up.
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What's easier? Rework most maps or slap 5-10 seconds on gens?
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Gens should be fast if killers can take survivors out fast . Sorry but I think your arguments beat when it comes to which side needs help . And I don’t think it’s killers . They already hit toolboxes . Like the guy that started this post said, why would anyone want to sit there and watch a progress bar longer than what it is now? How is that supposed to be fun for survivors. Again you guys literally only think about yourselves lmao at least killers get to run around as they please wrecking havoc and pushing different buttons. Hell, I’d like it if I got to heal my teammates once in awhile rather than look at them on a hook with Kindred and see the killer standing there watching them. Hmm. Maybe that’s why gens fly. I don’t think it’s fair to control all 8 gens at once anyways. Just get who you can :)
you can’t pressure all survivors? Sounds like a personal problem. I’ve seen teammates get wiped from the game moments into it. I think they need to fix that, but they won’t. I don’t want to see teammates die that fast because they hook suicided thinking they couldn’t play anymore. They knew Mori was up next or the guy playing killers just hovering around him like a vulture. It’s just not that serious. Everyone’s much happier getting multiple chances to stay in the game. 4 kills should be the same as the amount of time I see myself getting out alive playing solo, 10% of the time. Lol. 1-3 sounds about right. Otherwise you’re just getting greedy. You gotta think man, these other 4 guys want some love too. We all just want a piece of the pie. Who are you to cut it short? They had to give you a secret weapon because you can’t handle letting a survivor go?
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Like I said, why would anyone want to sit on a small map with a killer that moves as fast as they’re allowed to and watch a progress bar over and over and over because gen control would be too easy? I just don’t want to sit there forever man and hold the same button. Nahhh. I’m g
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I'm a rank 1 survivor.....
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The two go hand in hand. You fix the large maps and make them smaller, the less time the killer is going to need to waste to get from one side of the map to the other so gen times won’t be that big of a deal.
The other option is to fix gen time itself and the large maps won’t be such a pain to deal with as a result.
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just another typical killer main reply, can't help but try and pick faults with someone who plays both sides of the game opinion, statement and gamestyle. Sorry i'm not running meta perks and that i'm enjoying the game for not running meta perks.
Yeah i play killer and yeah i've seen people escape with the key and sure a key can wallhack but then there's killers that can see through walls too so tit-for-tat really...
Also "your perks don't increase your killers power"...starting to think you can't get passed rank 10 as killer...Fire Up makes you Vault, Pick Up, Damage faster the more generators get done, therefor making your killer more powerful...same with Save The Best For Last, stack to 9, extremely quick for weapon cleaning, sorry that you don't understand how these perks work...but yeah news flash, they make your killer more powerful as the game goes on...combine these with something like Devour Hope and GL to the survivors...I also didn't say Dying Light increased the power of the Killer i said my perks did...smh
Also make your mind up i'm either royalty or holy. But yeah i'm not pretending i'm above you all for not running gen slow down perks, i'm saying the game is just more boring for everyone if it's just slow gen speeds and nothing else happening.
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This is a long term solution rather than short-term but yeah I get it. The only gen slow down i can accept is maximum of 2 people on a generator and remove the lights from the top and make them harder to find like on the indoor maps...
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Exactly, like Lery's and Hawkins only allow sometimes 1 person on a generator for the way it's designed, it's the way it should be on all maps
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Gen speeds are a problem. They fly on small maps too. A good team of 3 can knock 3 gens out within the first minute of the game, while using the fourth surv as bait for the killer to chase and hook, which is complete BS. Then they get the rescue and distract you while the other 2 are on the last 2 gens almost 99ing them. Real fair. That's how quickly things can go to #########, and there literally NOTHING you can do about it. Your playing good, your trying to apply pressure, but you HAVE TO chase, down, and hook people, and the gens just FLY while your doing it. There's no way to chase more than 1 person.
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Stop moving the goalposts, no one said you couldn't run what you wanted, but you were trying to contend the perks you were suggesting were helpful with generator slowdown, and I pointed out why mathematically they are minimally effective at best, and useless at worst, this is also backed up by statistics on perk use and feel free to check high end killer streams, they won't be running perks like Dying Light or Thanatophobia unless they are doing a viewer suggested build.
Thing about key wall hacking is there is no downside whatsoever to survivor's using it, sure it's a set number of charges but that's it. If Myers wants to wall hack, he's stuck in Evil Within 1 with movement speed at a literal crawl and zero lunge range even with boyfriend's memo.
Also I based my assumption of your abilities based on your nonsensical suggestions that felt like you never actually play these perks, but just read tooltips, because I find it very hard to believe anyone is getting too far against the optimal survivors in higher ranks running the perks you suggested. But if you wanna whip it out and measure here you go.
Taken a few mins ago. Not the first time I've hit rank 1 either, did it in the days of old Hex: Ruin and new Hex: Ruin. I've played all the perks you've suggested, every killer has, we've tested them all, the meta becomes the meta for a reason, not because someone arbitrarily claims it's the meta, but because those perks are shown game after game to be the most effective at accomplishing the killer's objectives which is to hook the survivors enough times before generators are completed.
And again you are just suggesting terrible perk choices based on mathematical fact, all because you want to prove yourself right somehow.
Fire Up is a 4% increase to Picking Up, Dropping, Pallet Breaking, Damaging Generators, and Window Vaulting. First off let's just eliminate picking up and dropping as those are already quick action and dropping is almost never used. That leave pallet breaking, damaging generators, and window vaulting.
Brutal Strength would give you 20% faster pallet breaking and damaging generators FROM THE VERY START OF THE GAME which is the equivalent to all five generators being completed under Fire Up.
And if you actually cared about window vaulting, (though as a killer you should rarely be vaulting windows anyway as it's usually more optimal to moonwalk to mind game) you could take bamboozle which is 15% vault speed and blocks the window.
My problem with your perk suggestions is as I said it sounds like you're just reading tooltips and never actually played any of these perks in an actual game.
And oh good lord, SAVE THE BEST FOR LAST STACKS TO 8, NOT 9. You would think if you were going to spout information it could at least be correct. Also I never said Save the Best for Last is a bad perk, and was never in the conversation previously. I only addressed Dying Light and Thanatophobia which ARE terrible perks. Save the best for last is quite good on many killers, trapper and wraith in particular and can be strong on all M1 reliant killers. Again, stop moving the goalposts.
"I also didn't say Dying Light increased the power of the killer I said my perks did". How is that not the same thing again? If a perk is stacking a debuff on survivors, by definition that is inversely buffing the killer. You're just arguing semantics now.
And again with the goalposts shifting, suddenly it's all about "having fun". This part of your original post.
"I don't have a issue with generator speeds at all"
Now if you had said "yeah gen speeds are fast but I don't let it bother me" okay fine, but to pretend you don't have an issue with them is false because EVERY killer is having an issue with it right now, mainly due to larger map sizes as you have mentioned, which I agree with.
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I feel that gen speeds will eventually play a factor, due to swf and their communication between each other. While maps are a problem, looping is a even greater problem due to the fact that it waste too much of the killers time. Granted I'm firm believer in drippinyg chases, but the fact that loops spawn so close to each other makes looping a bigger problem than maps or gen speeds imo
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