Fix Nurse, please?

Yeah the picture does speak for itself. The killer with the undisputably highest barry of entry to be played at a somewhat decent level, so much that even some Nurse mains are still mediocre to bad with her, has a low kill rate when taking all ranks into account. For reference at red ranks she has over 65% iirc, which is still decently high for a killer that hard to play.

She doesn't need buffs, she needs to be more accessible without losing her high skill ceiling/skill expression.

Old Nurse was more accessible because she was busted. Yes, her base kit too. That's a discussion that we'll probably never agree on, so let's just not waste our time. Thankfully the devs did the right thing with her and didn't listen to people who thought she was fine for whatever reason. Her add-on rework was, indeed, absolutely terrible, but add-ons are always very hit or miss with BHVR (like Oni having many great add-ons and Deathslinger having like 2 or 3 somewhat good ones) so no surprises here. I've been always been a mediocre to bad Nurse player and I still abused the hell outta her when I wanted an easy ride to high ranks, and when that happens to a character with a high skill cap you know there's something wrong.

Nurse one tricks are very clearly the most important parameter here. You always have to look at these things from the ceiling (and please don't start the "MUH SWF" thing here. Yes, I know, we know, everyone knows it's too strong, and I also think BHVR is doing a pretty poor job in their quest to bring SWF and solo closer together and balance the game accordingly). Good Nurse players are still crushing with her. I know she's not as fun to play, but honestly, if the only way a kit is fun to play is when it's absolutely unstoppable then there's something wrong with the design here.

You just have to accept that when something is this hard to play and has this much potential, it's bound to be a one trick only thing unless the design is seriously fixed. Don't quote me on this, but someone from BHVR said some time ago that they probably wouldn't release Nurse the way her kit is nowadays, and I agree. The Nurse release happened when the game was very different and they didn't have the knowledge and design philosophy they have today, and people also were terrible at the game (even more so than the average player is today). But we're stuck with her, so I'm glad the devs balanced her accordingly.

Again, then buffing her isn't the right choice. If the only way to keep her somewhat manageable at a high level is to gut her at a low level, it's a design problem, not a balance problem.

Remember kids, those statistics are only meaningful when they fit my narrative.

Just to put this here. Clown has somewhere around 200 unique bugs to him alone. I'm not sure of the severity I just know a few clown mains.

"But MUH SWF"

I addressed this in my previous comments. Whataboutism brings literally nothing of value to the conversation.

Since you don't want to have a reasonable conversation and apparently loves to throw everything into the "us vs them" dynamic I think I'm done here. Bye.

Well to be fair, one of the first things you pointed out is that any discussion, if her original basekit was fine or not, is undiscussable. That limits conversations as well. Nurse after her base kit changes might still be strong, but it came with bugs and is from a game design perspective not well designed.

She is designed to move mainly using her power and has to take a stun mechanic for using it, but also get's a cooldown which happens parallel to the stun. That alone is badly designed and is litterly crippling for the sake of it. It destroys the straight forward and game feel of the character. It's just not a good solution. And no saying that it justified, because the killer is strong is not a correct answer to it. Nurse is actually the most refreshing killer in the game. Her entire chase follows different rules, because you have to use pallets, vaults and sightblockers quite differently against her. I loved to play against her back then. It can still be fun today from a survivor perspective, but it became much more easy and you win much more distance after outplaying her blink. Too much by my opinion. So no, she isn't in a really good spot. Even if experienced killer still manage to kill with her, but I think that most survivors still can barely handle her, especially since she became so rare these days...

And like said. The main issue is that the changes don't make her fun to play as anymore. As a player you feel crippled quite often. That's not a good solution.

I thought kill rate stats didn’t mean anything? If they’re now actually a metric people want to balance from, does that mean Freddy needs a nerf after Nurse’s buff? Or can we agree that stats without context are limited in their usefulness?

I barely even play survivor but nice try sweetheart

I mean, you can always watch VODs of high level Nurse streamers decimating every single game with her basekit nonstop. You can always do some research on other games and realize that a character with a high skill cap being as powerful as she was at every single skill bracket was unnacceptable. And your argument loses every single ounce of credibility when you say the devs don't want a killer to be strong when Spirit barely got a slap in the wrist and still is monstruous, Oni got his flick partially back and is still very strong, Freddy is strong while being disgustingly easy to play, and those are all recent releases. There's a difference between "strong" and "catastrophically overpowered in the right hands". If all you got is "well, malding killer mains will disagree with you and devs bad" then what's even the point to this conversation? And I mean this honestly, not as flame.

Everybody that's reasonable will agree that this game is survivor sided at a high level. But people suddenly stop being reasonable every time a killer gets slighly changed (even if it turns out to be a buff in the long run, like the Freddy rework). Let's please stop pretending the devs hate killer mains or whatever. If that was the case the game would still be the exact same it was years ago.

That's the price you pay by playing a high skill cap character buddy. You either put the time and effort to get good with it or you'll make the character look bad.

That's no excuse to leave her overpowered.

I wish you could show me that footage because I don't think I've ever seen anything less than a 3k by a competent Nurse player with basekit before the rework.

That's the effect of her being very hard to play. Even people who play her a lot can be less than great with her. That's true for every high skill cap/skill expression character in any pvp game. She's not for everyone, nor should she be. And being that hard to play is generally tied to being possible to mess up with, even if you're good. Still, her old kit required you to make MULTIPLE mistakes to even come close to losing. She's more punishing when you mess up now, which again, is only fair.

It's funny how you choose to ignore things I already said here.

There's a very simple rule in balancing games. You balance around the best and control the damage for the rest. Mediocre players performed well with old Nurse. Why is that a problem? Because when a character with a skill cap as high as hers performs well in lower brackets of skill, it's generally a sign that the character is catastrophically overpowered in the hands of people who've mastered it. That was the case with Nurse before.

You don't like it? She's unfun now? Then ask for a rework, because her kit, in its current iteration, will never be balanced AND fun to play at once. That's how bad the idea behind the character is, at least in this game.

And yes, good survivors can beat a Nurse now. God forbid a killer can actually lose a game, right?

HIGH SKILL CAP CHARACTERS AREN'T FOR EVERYONE. If you're not willing to put the time and effort necessary to crush people with Nurse you should probably play something else.

all that picture proves is that most people are trash at Nurse. not everything in the world is supposed to be hold-your-hand easy. Nurse is one of those things that wasnt. She's still hella strong, people who arent good at Nurse just like to complain a lot because they lack the skill to play a killer that is no longer SSS+ tier.

If she still got the fatigue after hitting a survivor I'd support this idea. It'd make her less clunky without giving much power back.

Even at red ranks or with people who know how to use her correctly, her kill rate is still one of the lowest, and its far more inconsistent than any other killer. Any killer is "great" against survivors who don't know how to play. I have not said to implement all these suggestions; I've said to implement any ONE of these suggestions or something else. Anything, these are just suggestions I've gathered from other forums or other players. She needs to be looked at again, that's all we are asking for.

a) DONT reset bloodlust timer on every blink. Make it like the rest of the killers, lose LOS for x time/get stunned/brake a pallet/ get a hit you know, same as other killers.

I will also repost the other suggestions but note we are not asking for all of these, only for 1 of these to be implemented:

b) Return her base kit to preenerf, leave addons as they are now.

c) increase her base speed to 4.2-4.4 just like hag/spirit/huntress, leave rest as is.

d) give her 3-4 blinks as opposed to 2, leave rest as is.

e) Make one recharge bar recharge blinks to maximum (ie. one recharge bar gives you the 2 blinks at once), leave rest as is.

f) remove the fatigue, leave rest as is.

g) remove the blink c/ds while not in a chase, that way you start every chase w 2 blinks.

h) Bring back the lock on swing if you do in fact guess pathing and blink correctly.

Im being unreasonable but hes literally saying that anything thats not easy loops should be nerfed to the ground survivors shouldn't have to change from their 1 meta build and same 1 strategy