SWF survivor > Solo survivor = When fixed BHVR?
Any comments from BHVR as to when they are going to fix the huge imbalance issue in their game they introduced?
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So what are you saying? You want SWF easy mode for solo? Or do you want SWF to be just as difficult as solo?
Are you killer or survivor? The community is pretty divided on the subject.
As far as facts are concerned though - SWF is incredibly unfair to killers due to communication. However, if people couldn't play with their friends, most people would quit. There have been solutions and workarounds suggested, but the reality is that if ANY of them are introduced to the game SWF players or killers would be furious with it. SWF would complain about any advantage to the killer, and killers would complain that it didn't do anything to balance the game.
Long and short of it is SWF is broken yes, but nearly impossible to balance without major flak from the community.
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There is not much communication in this direction, so my interpretion is more like it's everybody's own business to play solo as SWF is probably the way the game should be played from BHVR pov.
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Firstly thank you for a decent and honest response, there are people on here that just muddy the water.
>So what are you saying? You want SWF easy mode for solo? Or do you want SWF to be just as difficult as solo?
I'm saying BHVR have done next to nothing to address this problem, personally I would want BHVR to attempt to balance the divide. BHVR gave a vague comment about buffing solo survivors to match SWFs with no deadline. In my opinion SWFs need to be slowed down to balance with solos.
>Are you killer or survivor? The community is pretty divided on the subject.
I am a survivor main but only gave up playing killer against either SWFs in red ranks, there is no reward or fun in doing so as it is too coordinated.
>As far as facts are concerned though - SWF is incredibly unfair to killers due to communication. However, if people couldn't play with their friends, most people would quit.
I agree that most survivors hop on with their friends on SWFs, my request for BHVR to speak about this isn't to stop SWFs but to balance them.
>There have been solutions and workarounds suggested, but the reality is that if ANY of them are introduced to the game SWF players or killers would be furious with it.
I'm not sure why killers or even solo survivors would be furious with an attempt to fix the imbalance. SWFs would obviously be upset as with any balancing nerf or happy with a balancing buff.
>SWF would complain about any advantage to the killer, and killers would complain that it didn't do anything to balance the game.
I think most people can't disagree that "SWF SURVIVOR > SOLO SURVIVOR" just because they are solo survivors with extras.
>Long and short of it is SWF is broken yes, but nearly impossible to balance without major flak from the community.
The only flak would be from SWFs or from killers if it wasn't. Personally I mostly play solo survivor now and don't know if I am doing well because I am a good survivor or if I am playing with an SWF.
When the game is so obviously imbalanced as it is queue times rocket unless you further imbalance matchmaking which is what has happened again recently with rainbow lobbies of survivors (unless you play SWF).
If BHVR can't fix the imbalanace of "SWF SURVIVOR > SOLO SURVIVOR" they are intentionally killing their own game.
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In their enclosed streams they have mentioned to try and buff solo survivors to SWF level so it is acknowledged but little is done.
It makes a farce of nerfing and buffing perks/addons in the name of balance when there is a gap before solo and SWF survivors that will never be fixed that way as they both can use them.
Ideas have been suggested and I prefer a slow down 'thana' like method to prevent the organised 'gen rush'/survivor objectives being accomplished in a comms co-ordinated way. I shouldn't expand on the subject just hope that BHVR respond to the subject point that needs to be fixed SWFs >solos
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I'm hoping some BHVR employee working from home could help repair the game in its current state?
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yeah after playing years of league of legends I appreciate a good company who makes their rank mode fair at max allowing 2 people to que up together
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BHVR is incapable of solving this issue.
SWF will probably always be the most powerful force in this game.
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I can answer this: there’s nothing to fix.
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BHVR should be capable of making adjustments and whilst not perfect it would make our game fairer for all.
It has been admitted by plans to buff solo survivors
And after a lovely first constructive message...
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I've seen this mentioned here and I dont think the idea is all that bad: They should just tune the game to SWF and add comms for all. Being coordinated is the biggest advantage SWF has. If everyone had it and the game was just balanced to SWF so Killers felt like they were on level playing ground this argument would end and devs wouldn't be struggling to balance the game for a sub-group of one of their categories of players.
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There are lots of great ideas how to attempt to bridge the balance but BHVR just need to pick a date when this can be fixed.
No buff/nerf to survivors perks or addons have been made to address this gap that is huge but they are made in the name of 'balance'.
Balancing the game should bring enjoyment to all survivors and killers which in turn should fix these 'matchmaking' issues where hardly anybody wants to play killer.
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Lots of people don't want to play survivor either. There's a reason killer queues aren't instant. LOL
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The real question is; how would you balance it? There's virtually no way to do it outside of removing SWF completely and BHVR won't do that.
You can buff solo play by making Kindred, Bond or Empathy base kit so you can see if someone is going for a hook save; but outside of that there's no way around it.
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Ironically, in order for killers to be buffed more, solo survivor needs to be buffed dramatically. If solo can equal SWF, then killers can be buffed accordingly, finally bringing about balance.
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Unfortunately the biggest advantage of SWF is knowing where the killer is or was at virtually every step of the game.
So let's forget every suggestion so far. And assume the easiest answer is what would be implemented. How do you counter 2 or more people tracking YOUR movements as the killer? The simplest answer is to make it so the killer can see only the SWF players at some stages in the game. It removes their ability to troll and coordinate. However, this would only be self destructive to the game. As this feature could then be abused to no end.
The reason I gave such a simple example is to show how we need to think about the issue. While there are good suggestions on the forums, some of them are so complicated that they could be balanced but only if it's a 4 man SWF; any less and the solo player would likely suffer. We have 3 player demographics, Solo Survivor - SWF - Killer.
I do NOT believe balancing solo to SWF is the answer. Because we'd then need buffs to everything related to killer. I think balancing SWF with Solo is the best option.
If I lose to 4 solo players as a killer, they earned it and I deserved to lose. They can't communicate my location or coordinate with eachother. They have to trust their team mates won't hide, run away from gens at the first sign of the terror radius, and hope people go for saves they can.
If I lose to 2-4 SWF - and I'm only adding 2 because while unlikely it's still relevant - I can assume it's because they constantly knew where I was, hid when another team mate said I was heading their direction, and basically just avoided me because they KNEW where I was.
Killers and Solo survivors don't need buffs or nerfs overall. SWF needs to be looked at in fine detail though.
There was a suggestion to make it possible to opt in or out of SWF matches. I think this is a good TEMPORARY solution but it still won't fix the issue.
All we can do is wait and see.
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I don’t even understand why people complain about swf when killers are OP too. Solo It’s not 50/50 on the escapes that’s for sure - more like 90/10 with 10% being escapes. 100% dying on the smaller maps 😂 Trapper needs a nerf. Speed and amount of traps seem excessive. I use lithe and I turn around he’s right behind me again. Legion, I use lithe and turn around he’s gone (inside I’m like hehehe juked!) but then when I look forward again he is actually so fast he’s in front of me actually outrunning my Lithe burst. It’s just not that serious their speed needs to be that high. I get it you’re gonna say get good, but nahh. I don’t really think this game is survivor sided. Even with sweaty SWF opponents I think if people are smart enough to avoid loops and get those ez downs it’s just not fun for survivors most of the time. Then they want to have this DC penalty, well... I think at that point if you’re not going to let me have fun with the game and actually play without seeing a teammate go down 15 seconds into spawning in then I don’t know how that wouldn’t cause a surge in uninstalls. Because I don’t want to go in and be some cocky killers 4K every game. I understand survivors don’t need to escape to Pip. But that’s part of the fun. You gotta remember survivors don’t get as much BP as killers do unless killers are really bad. So it makes you feel like you wasted your time. I don’t expect killers to lay down for me every game but they don’t have to, they just need to be slowed down a bit just like they nerfed toolboxes and buffed Doctor. You’re gonna keep giving killers buffs? Yeah okay. Chases are fun too, but a lot of these killers cut chases so short it’s not fun 🤨 why was the killer a mile behind me and still smacks me through the vault even though I’ve already made progress in the next direction? Why should I come in and stare at a progress bar or myself on a hook? I think survivors need more to do and slow killers down a bit. It’s a bit much they spawn on a survivor and get their down 10-15 seconds into the game and there’s always a hook convenient for them. That’s kinda ridiculous.
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So many things wrong with your post did you think maybe the legion used feral frenzy which is why they were able to out run you and guess what was nerfed before toolboxes ruin was nerfed so in a way both off them balanced each other out, they didn't buff the DR they reworked him even the plague only got a qol change with the new chapter the plague now has 1 Pool of Devotion at the start of the match as not many survivors cleansed so the plague never really had a chance to use that power.
Take the trapper you do know you can disarm the traps and it takes time for him to place them down so what are you doing while he is placing traps watching him do it or working on a gen and the trapper also got a qol change able to reset traps with out having to pick them up wow that is such a huge buff to him, you keep going on about killer buffs please tell me what buffs nurse and spirit got nerfed Freddy got a rework done to him same as the DR but by all means please tell me these buffs you keep going on about.
But you won't talk about any off the survivor buffs or OP perks or items that they have if your going to argue a point at least come with some evidence to prove your point not just complain killers are OP.
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I'm not sure if you don't play on console but killer queues are instant and faster than survivor, BHVR hope to delay them with the new 'batch matchmaking'.
Personally from what I've heard of BHVR buffing solo players is the wrong way.
Killers choosing swf or solo queues is a great temporary step.
BHVR employees, when are you addressing this huge issue to this game?
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No matter whether you are a survivor or a killer main, everyone should be on board with this. Bringing solo to SWF level (information wise, we don't need comms in solo) would be the best thing to happen to this game. When the survivor side SWF vs solo is pretty balanced you can then buff killers by a lot. Solos won't get steamrolled by powerful killers, and SWF will also have a harder time against them. Buffing solo is the best path to take to balance. It's unfortunate that not many people in the community see that.
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No matter what playing with your friends or as a team are always going to be optimal. It’s the same with other games like Gears, Halo, Call of Duty, Overwatch, League of Legends etc.
The problem is this game isn’t designed for swf, it’s designed for solo players. Solo players need QoL changes and killers need buffs.
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While I agree that zhe solo-swf gap needs to be tweaked, most bonus features or biffs to solo that arent outright voicecomms will most likely also be useable by swf, or will be use with greater effiency by swf.
Another point that strangely doesnt get discussed much is what buffs in general killers should get to compensate those solo-swf gapclosers. Just buffing their abilities will not be enough, i reckon.
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Let's say kindred is built-in. SWF doesn't benefit from it, but it would be a huge buff for solo. That's just one example.
As for killer buffs, it is hard to talk about, because there are so many different killers. Their add-ons could get buffed. For example, the silent spirit could make a return. On top of that, new perks and add-ons on new killers could be way stronger than they currently are. They could, for example buff BBQ to have aura reading ability near the hook as well, so a bit of a reverse kindred + aura readings that it currently has). If they also resize all maps, and make them smaller it would put the killers back on the top of the food chain. There is just so many ideas and stuff they could implement, but as I said, it is specific for each killer. If I were to write down all my ideas this would be a way too long post that nobody would bother reading.
Maybe you can find some inspiration for all killer buff ideas in Otz's video.
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They have tried a few things in the past. All the notifications we now have are part of that. What you have to ask is was that a good addition as inherently it also buffs SWF.
Information is good to a degree but too much can make the game just going through the motions. It’s not a simple fix by any means.
Even with information solo will never have a few things.
The ability to play with others with the same mindset or game knowledge.
Information itself is strong but knowing what to do with it is another. This echoes point one.
Coordinate on the fly with others. It’s all well knowing someone is on the hook and where others are but how far along is each gen? Who has perks to better save if the killer is camping?
SWF don’t care as much about points when they are coordinated. It’s a grind game and solo players will do what will yield them the most BP in reality. This sort of throws out coordination like SWF as if two are close they will still both run in for the most part.
So What makes some SWF overly strong isn’t just the info but what they do with it. Unless the grind was dramatically reduced and DBD changed into an actual team game with win conditions where you actually win or lose as one but I don’t see that as a change for the better.
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I feel the solo or SWFs queue should still exist perhaps solo in its current state.
The reason for this is when I play solo I am immersed in the game, where is the killer, is someone saving, should I selfcare, all takes time and is completely different from laughing with friends on SWF who to all heal up away from the killer near the shack whilst the perked up looper takes them on a run around etc.
The arguement to this is no killer will play SWF but if it is balanced then yes they will.
Imagine a killer with 5 or 6 perk slots against an SWF, the killer has to stronger and SWF team play will improve where at the moment you can just chill in SWF and still all escape.
Balance is critical for the long term but I'm confused why BHVR only some day are going to address this
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Whatever they have done it seems to be working now... also I've noticed plenty of red rank SWFs since
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I play PC. My killer queues probably average 10-15 minutes.
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The problem is that survive with friends has an advantage that you will just never be able to get for solo players and that's communication.
You can never give effective communication with perks, won't be able to relay information like where hex totems are, where the killer is and what they're doing among other things.
Adding perks like kindred and bonds to the base kit won't help the way you think It will. Sadly it would do nothing to actually shorten the gap why because it will make communication among survive with friends a lot easier essentially you would be strengthening survive with friends main advantage over solo players and solo players will not get a big enough boost to close the gap. It's most likely going to stay the same if not widen
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Either your PC needs to be fixed, Survivor queues must be even worse in your part of the world! Are you a low rank killer?
Hmmm... I believe BHVR are balancing on solo survivors which is fair but not for killers when they face SWFs, perhaps keep a solo game for the original immersion feeling and offer a SWF option when the killers are buffed up to match the SWFs?
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LUL
No, survivor queues on PC are almost instant. I dont wait more than a couple minutes. I am red/purple survivor (depending on the day) and purple killer.
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If BHVR balances the game around SWF, it will destroy the balance of the game more than it already is. SWF needs to be balanced with solo.
I solo queue and I'm rank 14 currently. I don't find the game too hard at all, I've been high rank survivor too and it still isn't that hard as solo survivor. I've said before that solo is the closest thing to how something like this would work in reality, as we can't telepathically communicate with others, and if you were summoned by the entity you won't have a phone either.
But lets go ahead and say they balance solo with SWF. You'd need constant tracking on the killer for the most part, which means it'd be super easy to avoid and run away from the killer. This changes the game from a horror survival (and it's generous calling it that at all right now) to a role reversal torturing the killer because "survivors" don't want to fight to survive anymore. They want to escape and that's all they'll be happy with.
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It's fine to buff solo players
The main problem is that they will never come close to survive with friends because they just don't have the same communication capabilities.
Without the ability to relay vital and accurate information solo survivors will not be able to hit that benchmark.
It's sad to say but it's baseline perks will not do this. It will give solo survivors information but aside from that not much else it would pretty much be like the solo survivor is just running those perks.
A group of survive with friends on the other hand will have their communication increased which will widen the gap between solo and Swfs even more. Swf will have a reduction in miscommunication because everyone can visually confirm certain details and they can reaffirm other details.
As for what this will do to to the matter it will just cause it to stagnate even more what's the point of using these other perks when you have them in your base kit already. Kindred for example if you make that bass kit without the killer detection what's the point of running the actual kindred just run the oversaturated meta perks.
I'm not saying an attempt to shouldn't be made however I'm saying is it's going to be a lot more difficult then just add x perk to basekit
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I totally agree that SWFs need to be nerfed trip solo level, remove perks or slow them down in a Thana like way.
However BHVR are buffing solo survivors which means killers can also be buffed to balance, it's kind of like GTA having flying bikes with missiles then.
To which I hope BHVR offer SWFs or solos only mode (as originally made).
How nice would it be to have SWF balanced so everyone can have fun but hear nothing from BHVR, it's just crazy they don't say aiming for May this year to balance... but hear nothing
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Solos don't need a buff, but SWFs need a nerf. Like an action debuff for every single SWF in a team.
Right now SWFs has no disadvantage, only advantages - regardless of their skill level.
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