Make monstrous shrine a game changer.
When a survivor is hooked in the basement survivors auras are revealed outside of 16m of the basement (whilst not in a chase.)
If two survivors are hooked in the basement the killer gains the undetectable status effect for the duration that two survivors are hooked there (whilst outside of the basement.)
These changes encourage getting survivors into the basement, and leaving it gaining incredible Chase ability and stealth.
Could swap positioning on the aura reading and undetectable status effect.
Could also allow for multiple basement spawns if maps have them
Thoughts?
EDIT: Some clarification : the perk would only activate 16m from the basement entrance, disincentivising camping. thats what the whole idea of this perk is. you get people into the basement, and then you run out and basically see all auras. you get two people in the basement, and suddenly your devour hope levels of powerful, yet you cannot camp the basement as you have no power that way.
An idea suggested below, was that this perk could activate all applicable basement's, and make them only accessible to the killer. when a surviour is hooked in a basement, that basement becomes "Activated" and all other basements disapear, with the activated basement now being the permanent basement on the map. this would allow players to choose a convenient basement, if there is a spawn location around and they want to get value from the perk!
Comments
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Monstrous Shrine Buff:
Hex Totems are blocked by the entity for 80/100/120 seconds.
It's corrupt intervention for Hex Totems basically. Get some use out of Ruin and Devour Hope and Huntress Lullaby.
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It's not that bad of a perk on those who can afford to run it. But you need to get multiple people down there for it to really shine. It's probably my favorite perk in the game, even if it is suboptimal. Nothing better than deleting people as fast as possible.
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Atm it's generally known to be one of the worst perks in the game aside from predator and bloodhound. Sure it gets rid of people in the basement slightly faster, but that's both completely unnecessary and encourages camping whilst using it (due to the fact that it's a default perk which typically new players might use and want to get use out of.) There is no way of really getting it to shine imo.
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I feel this could be its own perk though, or added onto corrupt intervention/thrilling tremors.
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The basement only exists for camping. Why having an easy defended area and then just walk away to let the survivors unhook for free? If you get 2+ people into there with it, the survivor team is forced into your hands quickly; because you can literally sit at the top of the stairs while everyone dies and they won't be able to do the gens faster than the survivors are sacrificed.
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So something that encourages killers to camp even more when survivors are hooked in the basement? Nah thanks I'd rather not have any more perks that encourage unhealthy playstyles
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H..how does this encourage camping. Aura reading that reveals every other survivor outside the basement to go hunt? An undetectable bonus on top of that if your lucky enough to get two survivors in there?.... If anything it encourages getting one down there for the bonus (which is similar to bbq might I add which discourages camping) and possibly getting a second down there if your lucky and see someone going for the save, or are playing a basement protector like trapper or hag etc.
I don't see how this encourages camping. If anything the opposite as suddenly you have a huge powerbuff from a single survivor being down there.
And this turns the basement into a tool that allows you to go for any survivor at your whim, and sneak up on them if you have two plus*. It encourages leaving the basement, and if we went with the addition that it opens all possible basement spots, then you wouldn't even have to camp to get Max value. Just hook one in each basement and boom you have aura reading and unlimited stealth.
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Monstrous Shrine might be the single worst perk in the entire game. I mean, if you like it...more power to you, I guess.
Perhaps add a stipulation that the Killer also has to be further than 16 meters from the basement in order for the perk to be active?
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There's plenty of worse perks than monstrous shrine. At least monstrous shrine gives you value when you can make it work. There's other perks, like unrelenting, that are just absolute trash unless you are a rank 15-20 killer who misses 95% of their swings.
There's also furtive chase, cruel limits, bitter murmer on anyone who isn't huntress, lullaby / overcharge at high ranks, third seal, beast of prey, etc etc.
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Furtive is gimmicky but at least lets you lower your TR beyond normal limits which can be very effective. Overcharge actually isn't totally useless at high ranks as it prevents gentapping. Bitter Murmur at least provides consistent information on Survivor movements. Cruel Limits is very specific but can make indoor gens a lot less safe.
Monstrous Shrine only works IF you get a basement hook, which is dependent on factors like map RNG, and only reduces hook timers by roughly 5.4 seconds per stage. Even if you extended it to every Hook on the map it'd be a pretty awful perk and as most Survivor teams, especially good ones, will not leave allies to rot on the hook it's extremely, extremely unlikely to ever make a difference between a hook state.
This is a more out-there idea, but one of my ideas for a Monstrous Shrine buff would be all Basements spawn in possible locations, but are invisible to Survivors and they simply see the floors/walls as if no Basement existed. When the Killer walks where the stairs would be, the Basement materialises there as normal permanently and the other potential Basement spawn vanishes.
This way the Killer chooses their Basement spawn location, and perhaps gets the benefit of barring Survivors from the Basement as a hiding place or for chest loot until they actually go to the Basement for a hook.
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Basement hooks are not RNG. You can run agitation and iron grasp, then defend the generators near it. Most maps only have 1-2 basement spawns, so within 30 seconds of loading into the game you can know which gens to be defending.
I always do corrupt intervention (the best killer perk in the game currently) as well, which sometimes locks down a 3 gen right on top of the basement.
Once you get someone down there, it's not hard to get the second person assuming you are running a 1 shot or stealth killer. Or spirit / hag because they are overpowered. Then once you have two down there, it's pretty much faceroll at that point.
You don't need the perk to win in 90% of the cases, but that's the same with most perks in the game.
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Sure thing, but you don't start with knowledge of where the Basement is, nor can most Killers be reasonably expected to defend any Generator they want at the start of the match.
Yes, you can play a Basement-oriented playstyle and win as Killer. Monstrous is still worthless, because if you're locking down the Basement that much, what does the Kobe% or the Survivor hook death timer matter to you? Wouldn't you get more out of a generally good Perk that helps you more easily locate/down Survivors to throw in the Basement than you would out of the Survivors in your basement dying ~10 seconds faster?
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With enough time played in the game, you will know the basement spawn locations. You can start the match off by checking one, and if it is not there, you know it can only spawn in one other location. That is done within 20-30 seconds of starting a match.
If you get 2 people down there, that's 20~ seconds off the game for your win condition. 20 seconds is a pretty long time in DBD. Something like pop goes the weasel gets you 20 seconds as well, but only towards defending gens, and not actually killing the survivors. You can delete a gen by hooking survivors 3+ times with pop, or just outright kill a survivor with monstrous shrine.
The kobe % matters a small amount, because someone getting off the hook in the basement is a catastrophe in the meta of DS / BT. If you have 3 people down there and even one person gets off, that will more than likely start a chain of second chance perks that you cannot counter.
I would really only say there are 4-5 super impactful killer perks. Whatever you choose to run, if you choose to run them, is up to your flavor. And monstrous is fine as a decent perk for a basement playstyle.
I am not saying it's a great perk, but it does have it's uses.
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All of those perks are better than Monstrous Shrine, though. Even Beast of Prey and Cruel Limits. Which is saying something.
Lemme put it to you like this: I run Mad Grit, Agitation, and Iron Grasp as part of a meme build. I wouldn't be caught dead running Monstrous Shrine as my fourth.
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In maybe 5000-6000 hours played I have only gotten use out of cruel limits once. And that was running tinkerer and a haddonfield offering, trapping someone in a basement house while they tried to loop the upstairs window and got downed instead. I almost never miss a swing or get 360'd so I don't see why unrelenting would be more valuable than MS. Furtive chase is probably the worst perk in the game since it would only impact baby survivors too scared to touch gens when they don't hear a heartbeat against a stealth killer.
Agitation iron grasp is not a meme build in the slightest. Basement camping is a very valid strategy for killers suited to defending it.
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Furtive Chase has synergy with Nemesis and Make Your Choice, which automatically puts it above Monstrous Shrine. Cruel Limits has little use, but Monstrous Shrine has no use, not even in a dedicated basement build. Unrelenting has some minor use for when you try to guess on blindly swinging around a corner. Monstrous Shrine isn't even good for people who can consistently reach the basement.
Iron Grasp + Agitation is a meme build. Camping the basement is a bad idea against competent teams who will just gen rush anyways.
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The Kobe% is a 1% total reduction chance. If it changed the base chance of a self-unhook to 0 it would be more justifiable but the 1% total reduction is miniscule.
Let's say we keep running basement hook only builds and 4K every single time in the basement. If every Survivor makes three self-unhook attempts, that's a total of 12 unhook attempts for about a 60% chance that none of those self-unhook attempts will succeed. Monstrous Shrine increases that to just under 70%, so even IF the Survivors try self-unhooks as much as possible in the dream scenario which will essentially never happen in-game, Monstrous will STILL only make the difference between a Kobe and a Survivor wipe 10% of the time.
At least, if I got my probability math right. There's a high probability (budumtish) that I screwed it up.
You will get ~20 seconds off the game for your win condition IF you camp multiple Survivors in the basement at different times. If that is the case, and you're camping Survivors in the basement one by one, Monstrous does pay off but you wouldn't be playing even remotely effectively. A good Survivor team should genrush you and by the time the first one's dead, with or without Monstrous, up to four gens could already be done in that time.
You are correct that 20 seconds is a long time, but how much time can Monitor & Abuse save you in a match via allowing you to get closer to a Survivor before they hear your TR and run off? How much time can any detection perk save you by allowing you to locate hiding Survivors when you'd have missed them otherwise? Ecetera. Sure, Monstrous does save you time but IMO most other perks still indirectly save you time and make your goals quicker and easier to perform, and do it better than Monstrous, it's just that there's no way to quantify how much time Save The Best For Last can net for you (even though I know it's WAAAAY more than 20 seconds in the average match).
If you're roaming, they will almost certainly get saved and you'll hook them again, the timer doesn't matter.
I'm generally pretty light when it comes to calling perks "useless" or "bad". I defend perks like Brutal Strength, Sloppy Butcher, even Overcharge. Monstrous Shrine is indefensible. Even in a facecamping basement Bubba build, it's a bad Perk.
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You want to make bubba face camping easier
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Make ANY new perk a game changer
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I thought thats what i said though..? that outside of 16m of the basement, the perk reveals the auras and grants undetectable?.
This... THIS IS PERFECT. this change could be in addition to the one i proposed... allowing you to essentiallly activate and use the basement on your side of the map, making it convenient for the player, if the basement has multiple spawns. it also takes away the op side from my hypothetical proposed change of making all basements active when using the perk rework.
Honestly this is the best response as to why monstorous shrine is bad. i do believe the math is off on the unhook chance but yeah
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So the last survivor must stay in a locker until the end to counter this bs?
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Or could have it deactivate when only two survivors are left? if it really becomes a problem that is. or just shift the bonus to if there are only two survivors remaining in the trial, the undetectable bonus becomes the first bonus ie your undetectable but cannot see their aura, therefore you can possibly sneak up on them outside of the basement, but can't track them down instantly.
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If you get multiple people down the basement, you probably don't need any further perks to win the game :P
@Maelstrom10 Constant aura reading over the whole map? Is a bit OP in my opinion. There is no other perk or addon that allows constant aura reading, it is always bound to a timer. Also regarding camping: You will see when someone is heading for the basement. As you don't wanna lose your buffs, you will go there as well. The only chance would be someone inside 16m that perfectly times the unhook.
@Shocktober You cannot always get into the basement. If you spend 3 perks to run Monstrous Shrine, even if you manage to get a 3gen setup for endgame, the survivors will most likely run away from the basement once you spot them, and not loop the area where three other survivors are trying to finish the gen. Good luck to down them quickly enough to still reach the basement. Billy might be able to do that, but there are way stronger builds than basement Billy. And if 2 of them spawn at a basement gen and you look at the wrong spot for the basement, the gen is done once you get there. Endgame setup gone. (Btw all maps have 1-2 basement spawns, actually The Game is the only map with just one. Otherwise it is always the shack or the main landmark building EDIT: forgot Haddonfield, also no shack here). Despite that: you know how unhook greedy survivors are? I rarely find games where a survivor is not unhooked within 20 seconds. The 5 seconds earlier progress almost never make a difference.
@Maelstrom10 to the perk: as I think it would be OP to have mapwide aura reading for up to 2 minutes, here a different suggestion. The double basement thing might not work, as the game only has one spawn and I think they would have to change a lot in code, as the random map generator would need a fix for a perk that is currently unused. So I think this will never happen.
-> Make it a stackable perk. For each stack it unlocks more abilites. Probably with one ability already available at 0 stacks. Abilities like either killer based or hook based:
- (killer based) higher movement speed around the basement (1% per stack or increased range pers tack)
- (killer based) 5% reduced stun time per stack to all stun effects (escape grasp, DS, Head On, Pallet, Flashlight ...)
- (hook based) at x stacks survivors need to perform a tremendously difficult skillcheck, that cancels the unhook (cooldown 10 seconds on that hook)
- (hook based) at y stacks a failed unhook stacks causes injuries or Bleed Out on the unhooking survivor
- (hook based) at z stacks survivors within 8m range of the hook scream every 10 seconds
- (hook based) at x2 stacks, the x stack effect applies to all hooks within 16m of the basement.
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I would say make the stack increase on unhooking from basement hooks (fluffwise, to make the entity angry, so it increases the difficulty) which would also discourage camping, as you need to let the unhooks happen. And this is just an idea of what the basement could do. Wouldn't need to be a 5 effect list :)
Post edited by Deadeye on0 -
That's gonna be a no for me
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Make it spawn extra hooks in the basement, that'll make it even better than it already is
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The way I understood it, it seemed like it read the aura of any Survivors 16+ meters away from the basement.
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Ahh that's fair. Should of worded it better. Meant it as a buff to discourage camping. To discourage it further and make it easier to save do you think the distance from the basement should be increased to 20/32m for the aura reading but have the buffs apply outside of 16m of the basement?.
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I really like the idea of multiple spawning basements and the letting the killer choose on his own. Could even add two basements spawns on each map or something like that.
I also like the corrupt intervention for totems idea.
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What uses it has?
That perk alone only reduce 9 seconds if im not wrong?
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If i hook two survivors close i ll just camp them. Im not that kind of a guy that complains about survivors second chances but at the same time giving them away himself.
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I believe it should be Hex: Thrill of The Hunt buff.
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a perk has to prettydamn good to make it to the top
a perk built around basement hooking, unless its REALLY good, will never be used
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There are so many ways one could buff or rework Monstrous Shrine, which only goes to show how terrible the perk itself is. It only works as a slight counter against Slippery Meat, which nobody runs.
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same here haha
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