General Discussions
General Discussions
So DS... Not what you think
The spoiler tag really only explains stuff about how I play killer and about me, just classification information, not really needed
So I am a killer main about (70%/30% with 70% being killer). I've got a bunch of rules that I play by.
- Avoid Camping/Tunneling/Slugging
- Always chase the rescue
- When all the gens are done, it's a no-holds barred match
- If you DS me when I clearly wasn't tunneling you, you get tunneled (basically if you punish me for something I didn't do, might as well do it).
This last rule, is the special case rule here... I've only got like 1.7k hours in the game, but have been playing since like 2017. I got really into it over the last year and half. Most people I know that plays this game consider DS an anti-tunneling perk. Even the people in the game I've met consider it an anti-tunneling perk... H
So this weekend, well playing killer I was DS'ed 10 times and I noticed something interesting. Lets get the normal 3 outta the way first. Two of the players called me a tunneler and got really salty. The last guy was not in chat so I couldn't talk to him. All of these people were over 1.2k hours (The guy in chat had a private profile). And yes, I generally check the profile people. I like to see there hours and if I played against a SWF after a game.
In the other 7 cases during end game chat talking to those players, they all agreed that I wasn't tunneling and that they used it because they had it and could use it. Now, not sure if this factors in they all had less than 300 hours.
Do new players not see DS as an anti-tunnel perk?
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@mouse0270 cant speak for anyone else but if you ds me I’m tunneling you out of the game just the way I do it lol
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I do not think I qualify as a new player anymore, as I started in December of 2018. However, most people I meet do not see DS as a anti-tunnel perk. Yes, it helps, but that isn't it's main use to them.
Its main use is to add in a little layer of forgiveness or to buy time. Lots of people think of it as DH, it bails you out when you need it, i.e. when you make a mistake and if you use it right, it can buy you another 30 seconds.
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DS actively encourages you to tunnel those who use it on you, since you can now tunnel them without consequence.
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It’s nothing to get angry about, you shouldn’t be getting easy downs and hooks but this game allows it and forces the survivor to use a perk in order to fight back. You saying “tunneling you out of the game” just says something about how killers are in this game. DS needs a buff so you have a harder time finding the guy that used it 🤷♂️ 0 scratch marks, longer stun duration, stuff like that.
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I'm a killer main but when doing survivor challenges for the rift and more often than not I would use it not as it was intended. But I'm not really trying to escape either so I'm not sure if my opinion really matters. I seem to only play enough survivor to get to purp rank but I've rarely got a killer where they didn't blatantly camp.
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If what you were saying were true for everybody (new players not seeing it as an anti-tunnel perk, 1K+ hours calling you a tunneler) then I would say it might be just because the new players don't have any reference to base it off of. They see a perk in a game they like, they know what it does, and they use it for what it's good for to them. People make up their own strategies that work for them.
Anyway, emphasis on that one part: they call it like it is. I wouldn't even call it an anti-tunnel perk. It's much more multi-purpose than that and there's plenty of video evidence to show that.
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if you get hit by DS, you kinda tunneled. facts.
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What do you expect them to do? Miss their DS on purpose because you didn't tunnel? "Oh, this guy didn't tunnel. I'm not going to use my perk at all this game and only play with three." That's not to mention that from their perspective it might be reasonable that they thought you were tunneling. Even if you weren't. They can't see what you're doing. Like do you as killer bring NoED and then go "I didn't get gen rushed, so I won't use NoED"
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That is kinda my point though. I am starting to see this shift in the player base that doesn't see it as a anti-tunneling perk and more of a multi-purpose perk.
That is terrible logic, just because you get downed in 60 seconds of being unhooked doesn't mean the killer tunneled you. In all of these cases except one, I downed and hooked someone else before even finding the player with DS. In most of these cases, these survivors were self-caring in a corner, some of them, I just found and others were just working on a gen in front of me.
So starting off, at no point did I anywhere say they shouldn't use it. My point of the thread, was WHY they use it. Players with more than 1,000 hours seem to say they run it for an anti-tunnel perk, however those who seem newer to the game, say they run it for basically as a second chance perk.
In every case other then one, I downed and hooked another survivor. If downing and hooking another survivor doesn't count as NOT tunneling, then I don't know what does. I don't run slow down perks other than corrupt. If I am going to run an instadown perk its going to be devour or Rancor, not NOED.
So get off your high horse and actually read the thread @KingFrost
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I can see why newer players could think this way not always knowing the design idea of it.
Maybe it’s a mentality thing where some see it active and feel it must be used or it’s a wasted perk.
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@Cardgrey don't listen to this idiot, this is what you call a "Entitled survivor that has never played killer"
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that's your opinion. and i think you are wrong. thank you, next
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So its not tunneling you if I down you in 61 seconds? That is basically your logic
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This has been discussed ad nauseam.
BHVR stated DS was designed to be an anti-tunneling perk. However, it is used most in non-tunneling situations and creates unfair circumstances where the Killer is at the whim of the Survivor[s] and has no chance of actually "winning" against them.
Prime Example: While a gate is open a Survivor gets unhooked and they have DS. Killer has no way to counter this unless they took a Mori. Throw in BT and its gets even worse.
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Devs: DS is an anti tunneling perk, just don't tunnel and its useless.
Me: Trying to punish the Survivor who unsafely unhooked while the previously hooked survivor body blocks with BT and DS, anti tunneling perks being used as immunity instead of protection.
So the survivors play recklessly, and due to their perks they receive little punishment in return. On the other hand, the killer loses time and is punished in all circumstances.
Hit the unhooked survivor: Wasted time
Downed the unhooked survivor: Wasted time, and you get called a "tunneler" in the endgame chat for bonus points.
After wasting 1 or 2 hits, you finally catch up to the reckless survivor you wanted to punish and get looped for a bit because they ran to a safe loop.
Now I'm a decent killer and usually BT and DS doesn't effect me much, but these perks are flexing outside of their intended uses (DS much more so than BT)
An easy fix would be if you perform any action other than vaulting or dropping a pallet while in a chase you lose DS. Also if you provide a protection hit for someone else you will lose DS. You could also only allow DS to activate if the killer is with 32m range.
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so you want old DS back?
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DS should be changed to this:
After being unhooked, DS activates. DS remains active until the killer picks you up or another survivor has been hooked.
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No, I am fine with new DS... My point was, just because you got downed again within 60 seconds doesn't mean the killer was tunneling you.
You were arguing that if you can use DS then the killer WAS tunneling and that it was as black and white. But by that logic, if the killer downed after 60 seconds such as 61 seconds it isn't tunneling.
Honestly, I rarely if ever tunnel (as in go for the unhooked person right away and usually attempt to chase someone else). However, if I happen to get DS'ed and feel that it was unjustified, then I do tunnel. I was already punished for doing something I felt I wasn't doing, so might as well do it.
This logic still has the same flaw... it needs to account for if the killer slugged you. Because if the killer hits the rescuer, the rescuer gets you off hook, killer hits and downs you, then quickly downs the rescuer and hooks them, and then comes right back to you and hooks you... THAT WAS TUNNELING. Yeah it was a unsafe hook, but sometimes as a survivor you don't have a choice. Just because another survivor unsafely hooked you shouldn't mean you lose your perk.
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Yes this has been shown before the DS does much more than stop tunneling, as such, I would expect new players that have no exposure to the community to basically see it as a free stun if they mess up, because thats pretty much what it is. Eventually they'll learn to abuse it and see it as a free pass for 60 seconds after any unhook like the rest of us survivors.
DS should maybe go something like:
After getting off hook, DS activates for 60 seconds. If you are downed in these 60 seconds the timer pauses until you get picked up by the killer or returning to an injured state and cannot be deactivated by other means during this time (timer will resume on being healed not deactivate). Otherwise DS deactivates after the timer runs out, when another survivor is hooked, or when you start a repair action.
Just spit-ballin here, but this should solve a lot of issues and leave the anti-tunnel aspect intact.
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Just no, there are some situations where you have to tunnel, waiting out the 60 seconds in these situations is already painful as is. People can also take hits with literally no punishment.
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