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Dear developers. Why old Freddy was reworked?
He wasnt the weakest killer he was one of the strongest. Please stop changing things because of killers with 100 hours complain about balance.
Answers
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Apparently he was unfun for both sides. Survivors, especially new Survivors, were irritated because he was invisible and Killers were frustrated because they need to wait 7 seconds until they are able to hit someone.
But from quite a lot of Forum Posts, I feel that still a lot of Killers and Survivors dislike Freddy, even tho for different reasons than before.
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Literally m1 trapper with no power was better than freddy
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Where s the proof of that . Its a known thing that OLD Freddy was considered the weakest killer.
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What?
Old Freddy was a joke. Even on console. I don't remember the Dream World doing anything and it was super easy to snap out of.
He didn't have any real form of map pressure since there was no real threat for being within the Dream World, and even if he could see your aura, he has to be both looking at you and be far away since it was based in Terror Radius.
Entirely reliant on his power, which has BUILD UP, so heaps of warning, before you could even hit someone. I know there were add-ons to help with this, but they shouldn't be relied on to cover a massive weakness. He was also the most basic of M1 killers, with zero ways to even come close to ending a chase effectively.
The stats proved he was a joke. People on BOTH sides were saying issues. Survivors were laughing at him, killers struggled and hated playing as him. This isn't complaints about relatively inexperienced killers, it's the entire community and the dev team acknowledging that there is a massive problem here.
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Can weak killer do well like this ? This is from tournament play. First two games has Freddy as a killer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lUdZ23s1us&list=PLANRIcAwSIvrsEMPPbxDYgGWncDs8Zhav&index=7
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Old Freddy was often considered the weakest Killer. IMO he was better than people gave him credit for (powers that help in chases are generally way more accepted than powers that give you information and help with mass team disruption) but wasn't in a good place and CERTAINLY not "one of the strongest". A general summary of why he was changed:
- Killers really don't like Survivors pulling stuff right in front of them, without being able to do anything about it, so needing 7 seconds of time putting a Survivor to sleep resulted in many gens being completed right in front of their faces
- Survivors don't like the idea of a Killer pretty much being able to see you constantly when you weren't in his Terror Radius- If Freddy didn't like you, there was absolutely no escaping from him no matter how well you played, because once you're in the Dream World the only option you have that isn't revealing yourself to him is being within his TR
- Besides that potential abuse, a Killer who is THAT oppressive towards stealth playstyles simply isn't healthy for the game. Doctor pushes the limits somewhat but he only reveals you if he's already inflicted madness on you, which requires you to be within his TR to pull off, and isn't constantly revealing your aura 24/7 when you're outside of his TR.
- A huge counter to Freddy was Self Care, which made an already dominant Perk at the time a permanent fixture of practically every Survivor build
When a Killer's counterplay involves doing stuff like brazenly running in front of them, completing gens/heals in their faces and ecetera, and remembering that you're safer within his Terror Radius than outside of it, even though that's, you know, not how it's supposed to work, that's a problem.
It also didn't help that Freddy hugely capitalised on disorganised, inexperienced teams and was (still is) a fairly basic M1 Killer, which meant while he didn't get good results generally, he was an absolute noobstomper who gave no real indication of what the Survivor victims were actually doing wrong, leading to a massive perception of him being "unfair" as well.
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LEGION can do well in high rank games. BUBBA can do well in red ranks. Just because 1% of a particular killer's player base has found the secret to optimally playing a killer, doesn't make them a strong killer.
Clown in theory is a strong killer, but over time people learnt how to counter him. Same with old Freddy. That and the myriad of nerfs over time made him literally the weakest killer in the game for an overwhelming majority if players.
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So? does it mean you cant find counter to the opposite side playstyle?
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I literally stated the opposite. An easy counter was found. There was a Survivor counter for Freddy, SEVERAL counters for Freddy, but literally none for Freddy to counter Survivors.
Self-Care? Coulorophobia doesn't affect Skill Checks.
Exploding generator? They've already run off it.
Aura reading outside of TR? Like I said, he has to be looking at you, so lockers or stealthing while in his TR.
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And that is random Freddy.
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He was the weakest and most boring killer in the game??? I swear people were begging for a freddy rework, and now people are crying for Old Freddy again
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class photo isnt a counter to that?
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The game i provided is a tournament play. Not some early rounds. Both teams are strong. Aslo team has comms.
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probaply because he was the only killer in the entire game whose power actually worked against him.
he was widely known as the worst killer in the game, as he had more downsides to him than upsides - and he was 100% RNG reliant.
also in case this is supposed to be an Aprils Fools... its the 2nd of April here now, so i have gained immunity! >:D
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Freddy is a very popular character and was reworked because most players simply couldn't play as him. He was hard for a reason.
I mained him for a while and only had problems in purple and red ranks because SWF teams worked the hook much better knowing it took longer to put them to sleep.
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Old Freddy was really terrible. before rework i dont think i lost a match against him. Now he is much more competitive to play as.
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It wasn't just about being weak, I've heard from like the 4 Freddy Mains that existed and apparently he was really good if you knew exactly how to use him, but s big intention was just to make him more fun for both sides.
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Go back to my first comment: You shouldn't need an add-on to cover a glaring weakness.
One of the first things I said in regards to old Freddy.
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Class photo may have added more time but once freddy put someone to sleep he see everyone else who awake. You combine this with nancy masterpiece giving you more of a long range snipe to dream world. Most of the freddy know you can run monitor to decrease the terror radius giving you more way to sneak on them.
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he is fun now
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😂
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Old Freddy was way weaker. He had to find people himself, and if you think blendettes were a problem for normal killers, the filter made it impossible to find people. Waking up was really easy, since failing a skill check wakes up with a very minor consequence, and most maps really made him suffer.
However, Survivors could be seen across the map, their repair speed was way slower when asleep, and he is invisible when awake (listen for the lullaby to hear him coming, the inverse of now).
He could be fun, but most killers didn't want to master him and good survivors knew how to counter him. It was a lose/win for killers.
I actually miss old Freddy. Sure, it was hard to keep people asleep, but you don't play Old Freddy like other killers.
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People say that the old Freddy was boring but I've yet to see a new Freddy in a while. The meta on PS4 seems to be Hillbilly and Doctor. New Freddy is braindead easy to play which is why most of the killer mains praise the rework. Why learn to flick and curve with the chainsaw or hit hatchets, when you can spam snares around a loop and get a free hit with no effort.
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Old Freddy was reworked because the best counter was to do literally anything that had skill checks, and then fail your first skill check. Not to mention that someone could open a gate almost faster than you could pull them into the dream world if they were already on it. It was not uncommon for me to come across someone, pull them into the dream world, only for them to run to the first gen, blow it, and then just keep repairing it, blowing it every time I tried to pull them in. Without experiencing it yourself, you will never understand the frustration of a four-man team on a single generator blowing the gen every time you go to pull someone in and then just completing the generator in front of you without being able to do anything. So no, old Freddy sucked.
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Obviously you've never faced enough survivors that have used medkits in chases while injured with Old Freddy.
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I'd take old Freddy any day over the new reworked Freddy
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Old Freddy was reworked because the best counter was to do literally anything that had skill checks, and then fail your first skill check. Not to mention that someone could open a gate almost faster than you could pull them into the dream world if they were already on it. It was not uncommon for me to come across someone, pull them into the dream world, only for them to run to the first gen, blow it, and then just keep repairing it, blowing it every time I tried to pull them in. Without experiencing it yourself, you will never understand the frustration of a four-man team on a single generator blowing the gen every time you go to pull someone in and then just completing the generator in front of you without being able to do anything. So no, old Freddy sucked.
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I'd still rather see snare spam than chainsaw spam. I feel like I can actually do someyhing about snare spam.
Xbox is bit of a mixed bag for my region atm. But Hillbilly is still popular choice. Spirit is having a resurgence though.
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from what i believe, freddy was in-fact reworked because he was painful to play as and against. ^^
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The amount of both pressure and mindgames he can offer to killer player what made him really fun and interesting to play .
That video i provided proves how interesting he was.
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I think its because those horror movie fanboys cant accept that in videogame they have to actually play those overpowered killers from the movies to win.
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We went over the reasons back when he was initially reworked, but to keep it short, it's for the following reasons:
- Most people did not enjoy playing him. Having to wait 7 seconds before being able to hit someone was frustrating since there was nothing you could do. Other killers would be able to hit the survivor, but he would have to stand there and watch them run to a pallet or window without being able to do anything about it.
- He was confusing to play against unless you already knew what to do. Intentionally failing a skill check to wake up wasn't obvious unless you knew it going into the match.
- His power was just a lot of slowdown. The matches were long, but the killer wasn't anywhere near as threatening as others. This meant long chases and long generators, which wasn't very exciting for either side.
- Bit of a side note, but he was hardly ever played. In spite of the fond memories that pop up every now and then, hardly anyone was actually playing him before the rework.
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Okay so here's my view as a freddy main, old and new.
He could be strong. He could be good. But that took so much effort and sweat and addons. He was weak, there's no doubt about that. You had to wait 7 seconds to hit someone, waking up was easy and entirely rng reliant, and if you were awake he posed little to no threat. He had issues with both sides, so he was reworked.
That's why.
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- Watch where are they going and mindgame one way or another you may get a hit or eliminate pallet and if you not given such opportunity just leave them .
- You could also wake up other players .
- No. It meant killer could pick up a chase where he s going to have an opportunity of ending it in seconds.
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Cuz he sucked. Simple as that.
Nothing was more fun then having a killer that can't touch you for 7 seconds after you get unhooked or interacted with anything. Btw, you could have constantly missing skillcheck on a gen to never actually fall asleep so that freddy can never hit you. BUCKET OF FUN IF YOU ASK ME
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NONE of those points actually address Peantis' response.
- No amount of mindgames will solve or change the fact that the Survivor has a free 7 seconds to go where they want. Some serious galaxy brain Freddy players (all 3 of them) could mindgame their flashes of visibility during the sleeping window to influence Survivor movements but there's a limit to what that can do, and at the end of the day there's no "mindgaming" someone out of walking over to a safe pallet.
- What does that have to do with anything? Failing skillchecks was still the #1 tool you needed to use to wake up and your only way of doing so if everyone was asleep (by the way, any Freddy worth their salt would easily keep everyone asleep in a match as much as possible. Dream Demon had basically no cooldown and a titanic range). Using the Wake Up action was also incredibly unreliable, as it made noise (so if you're in Freddy's TR, he can probably hear you) and one of the parties was asleep (so if you're outside Freddy's TR, he can see you) which meant he could easily just walk over to the two Survivors and put them BOTH to sleep. The point still holds that it was confusing to people who hadn't memorised Freddy's powerset.
- That doesn't even remotely counter Peantis' response. Sure, Freddy could pick up on an Injured Survivor and down them quickly, but you know what else happened in Freddy games? Survivors had to waste time looking for Skillchecks to fail constantly (which slowed down gens and the game as a whole), Survivors could spam heal in chase to wake up mid-chase (which artificially extended chases). Every single time Freddy put anyone to sleep he slowed down the game, and he was constantly doing that.
Bro, you got a dev response on a thread that frankly didn't deserve one, I'd advise just accepting it, because your points aren't making sense to anyone except yourself.
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You can suck devs ass as long as you want then. So long!
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You don't have to be rude about it -_-
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Op: asks question
Dev: responds
Op: Lmao wrong
Someone: no they're right
Op: Lmao keep worshipping the devs
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Me: asks a question
Dev: responds
Me: happy to receive devs answer and trying to argue with that
Someone else: LOL you are so wrong and trying to suck devs ass to get a promotion
Someone else: trying suck devs ass to get a promotion
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With how fast gens pop now, the old Freddy would get DESTROYED. Don't forget, he relied HEAVILY on old ruin. First, you had to find someone while still having a TR , then it took 7 secs w/o add-ons just to put them to sleep, then you could actually wound them. They could just miss a skill check and instantly wake up., rendering you powerless again. Had no map pressure, had no way of dealing with loops, yeah. I'd take re-work Freddy w no perks vs old Freddy w all perks anyday...
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Lmao you didn't seem too happy, and now you're trying to be a smartass.
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Is that a bait or a bad joke? I am confused
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Wut? I have like ~70 responses, do you seriously think I'm trying to get a Trusted tag or something? xP Look, if I was sitting pretty at like 500/1000 posts, then sure, maybe labelling me a clout-seeker would hit a bit harder, but I have zero chance of actually getting something like that.
I guess I namedropped Peantis a few too many times in that response, but I generally repeat general phrases- While typing this, I just realized I said "generally repeat general" and yeah that exactly demonstrates what I'm talking about, I'm not editing that.
I also wasn't accusing YOU of sucking up to the devs, I was saying posts like this are lucky to get a dev response at all. If I was a developer getting a question like this I would've legitimately ignored this thread, as while replying to posts is good practice, some questions are best resolved by the community. LOADS of people could tell you why Freddy was reworked including the developers themselves on numerous past occasions.
I mean, your response back to the dev one wasn't actually one that was creating more discussion or asking supplementary questions to be answered, it was an honestly immature series of "but what about..." that made me honestly question if you read the post at all. #########, I just said "honestly" twice in the same sentence, but I'm not editing that out either.
But anyway, when I pointed out that none of your responses were relevant at all, and went into why they aren't relevant, you just said I'm sucking ass and ended it there. Why should a developer respond again to someone acting like that, exactly?
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But you trying so hard to disprove it. Do me a favour. Give me more reasons.
To get a promotion you d need to do more than just defending a devs argument😂
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Btw adrenaline hard counter to the point you are waiting for another 7 sec. Awake survivors can block the down survivor from being pick up just by healing them. Unless you can consistently sweat with prework freddy you will be decimated.
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People, a dev included, have given you a multitude of reasons. You don't seem to be accepting them for one reason or another. He was statistically weak, he was rarely played, and many players found him unfun on both sides. Those are the 3 pillars of a rework.
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He was weak for most players. Many found him unfun on both sides. Then i guess we can expect Spirit nerf in future just because most think she s op and both sides find her unfun as thats the main factor why things gets changed. Sigh.
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