Did old ruin stop gen rush?!

Mostly true but not all good survivors would hit the great skill check every time. And that's were the trickle pressure would take affect. All those missed great checks would equal into a good slow down for gen rushing. Even without a high mobility killer it would work well in most builds. Sad part is like most good hex perks ALOT of high rank survivors would find it and destroy it often times before it could really work it's magic. The new ruin is semi decent at best since often you'll catch a survivor working a gen and chase them off and then another lurking around will just hop right on or you'll get plenty of 2-3 people on a gen at the same time and make U-turns back to the gen when you focus on one to chase.

Killer main, red rank over many different months, during both old Hex: Ruin and new Hex: Ruin.

It usually caused either one of two things.

1. Great survivors would still miss the occasional great skill check, and either blow the generator up in their face or get 3% regression from a good skill check.
2. Even great survivors would get annoyed and start looking for the totem.

Old Hex: Ruin was never something killers expected to last longer than 1-2 minutes. It was just in place so that by the time 1-2 chases were done maybe one generator had popped. Now it's not uncommon for 2-3 generators to pop during that time.

Now you are correct that at red ranks Hex: Ruin was not used nearly as often, because as you mentioned good survivors could get around it, by hitting great skill checks or knowing totem spawn locations.

So basically it did stop the gen rush for low ranks up through about mid-purple, which by that point killers were skilled enough usually to stop needing to use it by the time they hit upper purple and red ranks, which was good timing since it wasn't much good at that point anyway. Ruin essentially served as a way for low rank killers to get their feet under them as they learned how to optimize loops, end chases, etc.

By getting rid of old Hex: Ruin BHVR essentially made the red rank meta of not using Hex: Ruin as the meta for all ranks. The problem is you have many killers who either didn't get time to learn to optimize their chasing and pressure yet or had become reliant on Hex: Ruin as a crutch. So those killers are having a lot of trouble right now. You also have the problem that killers with setup time (Myers, Trapper, Hag, etc.) needed Ruin in order to give them time to get set up before starting chases. Corrupt Intervention helps but it's not enough most of the time.

The biggest issue is the Ruin changes should have happened after a lot of the particularly terrible maps like Disturbed Ward and Ormond got reworked. These maps are basically a no go for killers with low to non-existent map mobility. If Ruin had been reworked but maps had been made more reasonable, this would allow even setup killers an easier patrol route, the ability to pressure more, and encounter survivors more often.

That would have then been followed by a nerfing of the "core four" meta killers we have at the moment. Nurse, Hillbilly, Spirit, and Freddy would have all seen nerfs because with smaller maps their abilities would probably stray over into OP territory. However as it stands these are the four killers who are viable on every map, which is why they are spammed at red ranks continually.

So basically BHVR had the right idea, Hex: Ruin probably was something that should go, but they got rid of it before fixing the problems that Hex: Ruin was covering for, namely tremendous map issues.

It wasn't useless against Survivors that could hit great skill checks. Without Ruin those same Survivors are still hitting great skill checks and each one gives a 2% boost to gen progress. 2% doesn't sound like much by itself, but they add up rather fast and is 1.6 seconds time saved for each.

1.6 seconds for each great skill check is often stronger than entire perks Killers have to slow gen progress. And those great skill checks are 100% free unlike Killer perks that need a hell of a lot of time or effort investment to gain.

My opinion is that great skill checks is one of the main reasons gen rushing is a thing. They alone cut gen times by a decent amount before Survivor perks or toolboxes take effect. And those same perks/toolboxes often can give more skill checks to boost the effect of greats even more. This is also a big reason why Unnerving Presence, what should be a decent pressure perk for Killer, is so weak. It gives more chances to get great skill checks and turns UP into a perk that HELPS Survivors more often than not.

Killers used to complain that ruin was broken in 30 seconds every game lol. If it was actually vital to game health, these genrush complaints would’ve been as popular just as much then as they are now. But no, they weren’t. Interesting. So no matter how you slice it, there’s exaggeration going on somewhere. If the perk was being destroyed early every game, what’s the difference now? Hmmm

Lots of solid stuff here, only thing I'd add is that killer list sounds like for PC red ranks, as on Xbox the top is more mixed, and I do the snoopy dance whenever I get what I call a "console nurse".

This does not prevent people from equipping both Perks. Big Brain Moves, playing with 3 Perks. My highlight was a Killer playing with Ruin, PGTW and NOED. But well, not his fault when he loses, obviously, running 2 Perks most of the game is fine.

But, in my opinion, the use of PGTW lead to the Ruin-Nerf. At least partly. Ruin affected new(er) Survivors more than experienced Survivors, and I can imagine it is really frustrating if you cannot hit Great Skill Checks, have problems to progress a Gen and then the Killer comes around and kicks 25% of that away (dont get me wrong, PGTW is a good Perk, at least the Killer has to do something for it. But I can understand that especially the synergy was not fun for new players).

@Topic:

Players who lose with new Ruin will most likely have had equal results with old Ruin. To quote Scorpionz (Killer Main, Pig Main), when the topic "Gen Rush" came up in his chat: "Survivors rushing Gens is you not applying enough pressure" and this is 100% correct. Pressure on the Survivors, forcing them into altruistic actions helps to slow down Gen Progression.

Surely this cannot be blamed on the Killer player, Maps are a factor (and probably the biggest). Two equally skilled Killers vs 4 equally skilled Survivors can have a whole different outcome. Killer A might play on Chapel and Killer B plays on Ormond. Surely Killer A has a bigger chance to win, while Killer B might struggle (Ormond is btw. the only Map I would disable. It is not only highly imbalanced, but also buggy (Scratchmarks) and ugly looking... But that is a different topic).

So yeah, I dont notice that many differences since the Ruin-Nerf. For me as Survivor it is a little bit more annoying when it is up for a long time, but I did not have any problem with old Ruin anyway.

But old Ruin did not help that much to slow down Gen Progression (vs good Survivors, who can hit Great Skill Checks). While not everyone is perfect and 100% hits every Skill Check, many people get close to hitting 100%. While new Survivors will mostly hit way less AND are more likely to abandon Gens and run around, looking for the Totem.

Corrupt Intervention is way better for that. And this goes for both old Ruin and new Ruin.

I did not say that Corrupt Intervention replaces old Ruin (in my opinion PGTW is, at least since the Buff, way better anyway), but Corrupt Intervention works better than Ruin.

And nah, the 3 Gens far away from you are blocked, the other 4 Gens are still closer. The only time where it trolls a little bit are Maps like Suffocation Pit or Resting Place, with a Killer Spawn in the middle.

Last but not least, I have never seen it happen that Survivors were hiding for 2 minutes while Corrupt Intervention was active. Sure it would be the best strategy, but nobody is doing it.

The ruin change did a few things.

Old Ruin - Worked against new players / mid tier players at slowing down the game

It could have a small effect on experienced players but most would have no problem hitting great skillchecks (or gen tapping)

Old Ruin did help boost some players to higher ranks than they maybe should have been.

So much RNG with cleansing.....

New Ruin- Is pretty much a joke and can be ignored by all levels of survivors now. The only good combo is surveillance and Ruin however if Ruin gets cleansed then the killer has a crappy build.

New ruin is now boosting some survivor players to ranks they shouldn't be and still does nothing to experienced players.

New Ruin also (due to quick gen times) allows for more mistakes to be made by experience and average players since they are no longer affected as poorly by Ruins affect.

I do not like new Ruin in the slightest. While I can still do fine vs inexperience or uncoordinated groups, the amount of stress you can experience in high ranks is far from enjoyable. I enjoy not playing "meta" builds and tend to go with gimmick builds more often but many of my add-ons feel wasted when a game ends in 3-4 minutes. Sure this will eventually push me back down to average players so i can enjoy my builds again but it makes the already messed up matchmaking that much more annoying to deal with. Why do we still not have a "casual" mode? Still get the "gg ez" messages when I'm playing jumpscare Myers and not trying to 3 hook people but rather give them scares....

As far as.i could tell old ruin was better for the killers that needed it compared to now where it is more benificial to the killers that didnt really need to use ruin. But thats just my.2 sense

Yes it did. It would negate bonus skillchecks. New ruin does better though for killers that can run map faster.