Why are killers not rewarded for killing quickly?
Hello this is my first post on this site. I play Survivor and killer 50/50 and am always rank 3 for the most part on both. I’m not the most unstoppable player on either side but I am very decent.
Now onto what I want to say. It’s happened way too many times for me to count where I would do an amazing job as a killer and kill all survivors quickly and get nothing from that. This past game I literally just played, was about 8-10 minutes probably a bit more but not a single generator was completed, I hunted each survivor individually no camping or tunneling, and ended the game just off of the first tick you would get to rank up. A killers job is to kill and that is exactly what I did so why do I not rank up for doing what I’m supposed to?
i can get a screenshot and upload it to YouTube if I can edit my post, I’m new here so I don’t know how this works yet and I just typed this on my phone lol.
Comments
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To get pips you need to be working on your emblems getting stuff like max chase, max hooks, max survivor pressure and gen pressure, with no gens completed thats already an iridescent emblem, hooks from what you said should be gold or iri, survivor pressure would be around gold and chase would be iridescent aswell if what you said was true so unless your not telling us something here you should definitely be getting pips
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In fairness, it does seem unfair that one of the emblems judges killer almost entirely on the number of hooks, especially when survivors can disconnect or suicide.
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The short answer is it’s a ######### system... the long answer is it’s a shitttttttttyyyyyy system
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I had on hex ruin so I couldn’t hit gens and they never picked it up. But killing people I mean should count in that pip counter.
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I get really annoyed on both sides.
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I don't know about mechanics, but I think there's a lore explanation that the Entity enjoys the chase and prefers the drawn out back and forth to the quick finish.
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I think Emblems are badly designed and most people would agree, BUT it must be said that it's not 100% unreasonable for Killers not to rank up on a 4K, or Survivors not to rank up on an escape.
If a Survivor finds the Hatch and just sits on it until all their friends die and they escape, they don't deserve any pips. If a Killer gets a 4K only through circumstances like ebony mori spam, Survivor hook suicides, and Survivors just giving up I don't necessarily think they deserve pips either.
The circumstances you described definitely sound pip-worthy, so assuming all those details are right I think you were indeed denied a pip for no good reason, but I think an escape or 4K should be a guarenteed safety pip, not a guarenteed pip. There are ways to 4K or escape without demonstrating much skill, and there are ways to die or get a 4-escape whilst playing extremely well.
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Not really because playing killer isnt about just killing people, think of it this way you dont win a game of chess by going straight to the king.
you have to get other pieces out before heading towards the king and yes you may loose some of your own pieces (gens) but when you finally get the king after defeating all the other pieces its not just one piece youve taken but many which equates to a large sum (bp and pips)
Killing survivors shouldnt be treated as your only task as doing that only makes you fail
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I mean it's not different on survivor side. If everyone rushes Gens and leaves in 5 minutes no one pips. Same if killer decides to facecamp someone.
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They did nothing that would allow me to do anything else that wasn’t my fault but killing everyone should amount to something at least
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Thats the annoying thing because whats basically happened in your game is the king was the only one attacking and you wont pip up because the game sees it as a free no effort win and this happens even with killers for instance a killer that wont chase anyone nor kick gens will lead to survivors not piping up because they completed their objectives too fast so the only option would be to just move on and play another game
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It needs to be changed someway but yeah I agree
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They are trying to promote more fun game play and interactions with the emblem system.
With that said, you have to play how you want for your own win conditions. Either try to pip and rank up using emblem system as a win condition. Or play to your own win conditions and f the entity.
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There's also an emblem that judges survivors almost entirely on the number of unhooks, especially when killers can camp.
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Agree but I guess the devs dont really care.
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From a lore perspective, the entity feeds on the death of hope, not the death of people. Essentially, it rewards you for tormenting the Survivors, not for killing them. If you steamroll them, they don't build up any hope to crush.
They tried to make game mechanics reflect this. The success of that is debatable.
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Your job as a killer is to ENTERTAIN the ENTITY. It's not to kill as fast as possible. This isn't call of duty. Emblems are based on a show performance. It's not that hard to double pip if you play like you're putting on a show, even in red ranks. Being sweaty asf isn't entertaining in terms of thr emblem system if the survivors aren't on equal footing.
If you gave 2 people on death hook and no gens have been done you need to chill and lose some chases and leave survivors alone enough to get SOMETHING done. A pubstomp is bad. And don't used the 4 man SWF in red rank excuse. Not every SWF is sweaty. Prime example, my group. No os is saying let them escape but it's like a MLB Player in thr squirt league. No one is impressed only annoyed unless you're playing and adjusting your skill accordingly. And again SWF isn't an excuse, MOST groups are chill and WILL let you kill them if you aren't being sweaty asf ALL game, hook tunneling, etc.
We've ran into Michael mains so often and they know we're chill asf as long as you don't tunnel someone off hook. Play Michael and you're getting a 4K, double popping, and can even get adept and the other achievement where you have to kill 4 people with tombstone while Tier 3. And no its not a farming Sim. They play fair because they know they're getting the 4K so we do plenty of gens, they get lots of chases, pallets are gone, kick plenty of gens, and hook us, while not tunneling us off the hook. They double pip EVERY time.
I know there's a squad that does this with Legion and another with Ghostface. The Legion squad is notorious for taking head on and making Iron Maiden screams the funniest ######### ever. The Ghostface sqaud loves stalking Ghostface for him to turn around and be like #########.
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You didn't pip because you didn't play as intended. Killing survivors is only one category of objectives. If you did not attempt or work the other 3 the entity does not reward the 1/4 effort. I see a lot of killers use the phrase, "It is my job to kill" but this is inaccurate. It is your job to find survivors, hook survivors multiple times, engage in chases, destroy pallets, kick gens, etc, etc. It is unfortunate if you get a very potato team who isn't/can't play very well but garnering points in all categories is on you.
I treat playing killer like I am hosting a party. I am not only cognizant of my own points but try to give the survivors the opportunity to leave with good points. Such as chase, hit, pull off. Keep track of who has and has not been hooked and trying not to kill one till all have been 1st hooked, not tunneling. And yes sometimes it is a conscious decision to let someone go, or pursue someone else even when the injured guy would be an easier target. But I rarely get a DC and almost always leave with merciless killer and pip up, sometimes having killed no one.
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The emblem system needs to be revisited.
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Because we dont want to promote games like that
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CS:GO
Going against people of lower skill level and stomping them causes you to rank up significantly faster, to play against people of equal skill.
Overwatch
Going against people of lower skill level and stomping them causes you to rank up significantly faster, to play against people of equal skill.
Dota 2
Going against people of lower skill level and stomping them causes you to rank up significantly faster, to play against people of equal skill.
Dead by Daylight
ENTITY DISPLEASED
ABORT ABORT
We must keep them the same level, so they go against the exact same players they just completely ######### on!
FAIR
BALANCED
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If you're completely crushing survivors it means you're on a higher skill level than them and you should by right be moved of to people more your level.
Not ticking everything on an arbitrary checklist should not ruin your chances of leveling up
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I dont agree, if a match really goes that fast, then something is just wrong, something makes no sense, it should be disqualified tbh.
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I hate to put it this way but taking an arbitrary checklist isn't fun.
As a killer I shouldn't be punished because the survivors were potatoes or because I completely wrecked them.
As a survivor I shouldn't be punished because the killer wasn't competent enough to get a down.
That way you're not rewarding efficient or good gameplay your rewarding how much somebody can fit a bell curve and punishing them if they dare to colour outside the lines.
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The devs do not understand how to make a good ranking system at all. They want you to give as many chances to the other team as possible, especially when it comes to playing Killer. I shouldn't get punished for quickly sacrificing all four Survivors or because a Survivor disconnected. ######### the lore when it comes to the ranking system. Situations like this is where the Victory Cube really shined. You quickly sacrificed everybody or had some Survivors to DC to rob you of a hook? No worries, you got a double pip. You didn't safety pip because you denied the Survivors their chance at "fun". The fact that you can depip off a 3k or 4k is ######### stupid.
Chaser had to have been Silver or less. If OP killed them as fast as he says, then he couldn't have gotten Gold or Iridescent Chaser. It punishes you for killing the Survivors too quickly. In red ranks, getting an Iridescent, two Golds, and a Silver will put you one tick away from getting a pip.
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Sometimes it really is just as simple as outmatching the survivors that badly. I lost ranks because I hadn’t played killer for a while but I used to be red rank, and then they had that rank reset bug it pushed me back to like rank 17 and I was absolutely crushing people but getting black pips and single pips instead of double pips.
It took me way longer than it should have to get back to “fair ranks,” basically taking me at least double the number of games it should have. I shouldn’t care because I was winning, but I am sure those survivors were not having fun. Not a brag, just an explanation of why being way better than the players you go against shouldn’t cause you to be punished.
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What the hell is going on in this thread? It seems like everybody is agreeing with him even though common sense dictates that you definitely get rewarded for killing survivors quickly. Killing a survivor quickly means you both have 1 less survivor to deal with and boost your Gatekeeper emblem. Both of these are rewards.
If he safety pipped in a game with 0 generators repaired, then there's definitely some details that would explain why that have been left out of the story. High probability of suicides or disconnects it sounds like.
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Survivor also get punished for finishing gens too quickly or engaging in chases for too long.
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It's a terrible pip system.
Terrible rank system.
Terrible emblem system.
Survivors also don't pip if they don't engage the killer.
And survivors also don't pip if they're the only ones being chased, like they have to work on a gen during their chase.
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Your analogy is false. Its possible to win a game of chess in 4 moves. And the person who does it is most definitely not punished for it.
That being said, this is the only game that punishes a player because of how the opposite side plays. Survivors fail to do their objective? Killer depips. Killer sucks and can't down and hook anyone, survivors get no points. Survivor suicides on first hook or teammates fail to save them? Killer is punished for it.
The emblem system needs a huge rework. I understand punishing killers for 4k with mori off first hook. But insta down killers are punished for using their powers. Even devour hope moris punish the killer. And survivors shouldn't have to purposely get in chases to score at the game. It's the exact opposite of the goal which is to survive.
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Thats a bad example. Because chess' ultimate goal is to go for the king. You dont gain anything from lengthening the match if the other side exposed their king. Chess heavily rewards exploiting the other side's weakness. Maybe if chess had a point system in which you are rewarded for taking out lesser pieces, but thats not how it works.
If you go straight for the king and you cant actually go for the king, you lose. If you go for the king and you can actually checkmate, then you win. The latter is what is flawed about DbD's emblem system.
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This is a stupid analogy, and incorrect. If I play against a grandmaster they would probably checkmate me in like 10 moves without needing to trade too many pieces and they would get a win...
Ive seen UFC fighters knockout the opponent in less than 15 seconds, they get a win...
Ive seen professional billiards player break and run the table never missing, they get a win...
Should I go on? None of the above situations require the dominant player to artificially lengthen the game to earn more points to secure a win.
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Because there has to be an incentive for killer's to do things like pressure gens, destruct objects, chase, etc. in order for the opposition to get pts too. Killing is a main objective. It is not the only objective.
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And this is where your wrong does the grandmaster get better because he defeated you, no
Does the fighter get better because he knocked you out in 15 seconds, no
Does a gamer get better at minecraft by completing the game on peaceful, no
Should i go on in a game about strategy you dont get better by playing on easy mode and as someone said, the entity doesnt care that you killed/sacrificed them why do you think instead of getting a 4k it says brutal killer ect.. but not worshiper, its because the entity couldnt care less that you killed them its doesnt feast on their bodies it feasts on their hope thats why survivors are back into another trial after because all the entity does is reset them for the next trial so the entity can feast on their hope again, its why in my opinion gens are supposed to go fast in a match because if they go fast it builds up survivors hope only for them to be crushed and dominated by the killer
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You’re talking about different things, winning and getting better. The topic is about being punished for winning too quickly, the UFC fighter who knocks his opponent out in 30 second still improved his record, heck some titles have changed that way.
The chessmaster who beats me still gets one more win added to his record, the chess community doesn’t all of a sudden decide since he beat a beginner he gets a loss. But that is exactly what DBD has done before, I’ve played as Billy before and near instantly downed all four survivors and black pipped.
As far as your lore explanation that is spot on, but the Example of other games also shows that DBD is one of the few games you get punished for winning too much.
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Because the Emblem system is badly and illogically designed, and thank goodness they're changing it.
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But he was talking abput pips which i was going on about im not talking about winning im talking about ranking up whi h is initially getting better, you cant get better if you play on easy mode.
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The main reason is because they want everyone to have fun with the trial and there is nothing fun about being farmed in front of the killer and instantly being rehooked or just left on your first hook to die.
Lore wise it's because the entity wants survivors to get their hopes up with escaping only to have them bitterly crushed at the last moment, which is probably the main reason killers aren't allowed to actually kill the survivors outside of making an offering to the entity basically asking permission to kill them. Basically the survivors are meant to be toyed with for a bit of time then ultimately sacrificed to feed the entity, some survivors have to escape every now and again otherwise they would lose all hope of ever surviving and thus be useless to the entity. Or at least I think that is the lore behind it.
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Again I dont agree, I know the game devides up the category "Killer" and "Survivor" and I feel that trips people up.
Should a survivor get max points for doing nothing but urban-evade around the map the entire game and then get the hatch at the end?
I mean they survived right?
What you always need to remember I feel is that Lorewise the Entity put the players in the trial for her enjoyment, that enjoyment means an exciting match, not an instand kill.
Dont think the gladiatorial battles or underground boxing matches or whatever generate a lot of money when its just over in 1 second, people go there to see a spectacle.
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Any fan of horror movies knows that the killer likes to toy with their food. Fast kills provides no satisfaction.
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The thing is that although your roles are "Killer" and "Survivor" it's more like 'Torturer' and 'Victim'.
Killers are encouraged to play with their victims and make them suffer, similar to how horror movie victims have their suffering drawn out over a long period of time, especially with series like A Nightmare On Elm Street. Freddy took quite a long time to off some of the kids in that one.
Survivors are encouraged to survive, but they've also got to co-operate as a team in order to extend their own life expectancy.
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This is impossible at Red ranks.
I get perfect and quick chases as Spirit and still lose game ( 3-4 people escape)
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It seems like there's confusion between emblems/pips, kills and win conditions. Winning many chases counts only toward one emblem. sacrifices/kills count toward another. Those together with other objectives will determine your pip result and ranking.
The win condition is debatable at this point if it even exists. Notice that in the end screen you don't get anymore Ruthless/Merciless Victory, but Ruthless/Merciless Killer (the former persists only in the description of the Adept achievements and that's because the Devs can't change those on console).
For example, yes you can win a lot of chases quickly. However, if you slug a lot, or hook and camp/proxy and eventually many escape, then that's likely a depip.
Finally, saying that this is impossible in the red ranks is most definitely incorrect, otherwise there would be no red rank killers above rank 4. It's very much possible, especially with a killer like Spirit that racks up emblem points very easily due to the nature of her power and how points are scored, while other killers are handicapped due to the opposite being true for them. I reached rank 1 with Billy, Huntress, Spirit, Myers and new Doc. Only with Billy and Myers I had to pay attention to how I was doing with the emblems. If you're still having troubles, remember to not slug too much (one slug at any given time is fine, many are not, unless you have already many hooks), not to stay close to the hook and to allow the saves (one-hooking everyone will hurt your emblems). For the rest, play normally and you'll do well, don't worry.
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I agree, it's a poorly designed system. Believe it or not but you can actually get a 4k and depip, you can 2k and safety pip. How does this make any sense? Oh wait a minute, I get it, I didn't circle jerk with the other survivors for at least 10 minutes before I have a chance to qualify as a potential piper. Thanks game. Even though in the past we had the old victory cube, which also had its flaws, I honestly prefer it over this current system. If Behavior wants to keep this game in a healthy state they should really consider implementing a better system whilst working on balancing the game.
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The devs have acknowledged the emblem system is broken. It's best to ignore it completely, as they plan to get rid of it soon. in large part because of this very problem + DCing survivors and the hatch and such making it very hard for killers to rank up.
It's broken, devs say so, ignore it, it'll be gone within a few updates.
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The devs have yet to make a good ranking system.
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It's because the Devs think it's better for you to rank up by playing according to their lore and "entertaining the entity" than by playing optimally.
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Why are survivors not rewarded for winning quickly? The same question, and the same answer: cause the games wants you to do certain thing in order to rank up. Deal with it.
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