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Can we get a rework of Nurse's rework
So Nurse, as pretty much everyone knows, got "reworked" a while back to give her a cooldown on blinking where she has to recharge her blinks over time. I get what the devs were trying to do, which is to make her less powerful as she basically counters any survivors means of defense. But honestly it's poorly executed.
Running straight is now an easy counter to Nurse, not to mention that her counter of breaking LoS has become easier because of it. Survivors that are good also know how to properly juke a Nurse, which is only made easier by the fact that they can see where Nurse is blinking slightly before she blinks to that location. She either has addons that she is too reliant on or addons that basically serve her no purpose. She's the only killer with 2 addons that weaken her power just to grant her more BP that isn't even considered an after match bonus (so basically pointless if you can land good blink hits anyways).
I've been seeing a lot recently that players are not happy with her current state. She is overly hard to learn as is for some players. Her power is a bit bugged or has times where it does not function properly. While she still can be the deadlist killer on the roster, some could argue that her difficulty removes her from S tier for most players.
She needs some kind of adjustment/rework to her power & addons. Currently, she is too difficult & boring which is why her pick rate is so low. Her former self does not have to be restored, but she honestly needs an overhaul at this point because the majority of players do not like playing as her.
Comments
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Tbh, they only need to remove or heavily increase the recharge of blinks.
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She just has a lot of bugs :/
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No, we are NOT happy with her current state.
She loses her second blink at ANY point of the match.
Dead Zones haven't been addressed.
Dedicated Servers make her blink in place.
A single Dead Hard can cost you much needed momentum.
Her cooldowns on top of cooldowns make her just a pain in the ass to even pick up.
And I cannot stand the players who don't even play her that say "She's still the best killer in the game."
No.....she's not.
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A killer that can end a game in 1 minute is not the best. okay then bud
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You can say that about literally any killer.
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Lol how many nurses do you even see? Rhetorical question..almost 0
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I don't understand all of this hate on Nurse. I never played Nurse before her rework, only afterwards, and I can say that playing her is the most powerful that I've felt as a killer. Being able to bypass stairs and teleport onto balconies, having 32 meters of blink range, being able to ignore pallets + windows and every loop in the game = bad? I have been able to get the 4k in difficult situations playing Nurse where it would have been impossible for any other killer.
I think the problem here is that people just haven't learned to play properly with her new kit. I know that not being able to blink 5 times without having to wait for them to recharge is more difficult, but it's completely manageable. I know from playing against Nurses over a period of time that the typical Nurse is just too impatient. They don't wait for both of their blinks to be available, they blink too OFTEN (big one there), they panic blink and use them hastily without taking time to be accurate, get frustrated and then all 4 survivors escape. The reason that you don't see more Nurse players is because she takes time to learn and experience to perfect, and many players would rather play easier killers like Freddy. It's the same reason that you don't see more Onis (good Onis at least)--he is an excellent killer, but he IS difficult to play and learn to manage his power properly.
I firmly believe that the New Nurse is far more skill-based than the old (from what I've seen), and a well-played Nurse is borderline unstoppable. You can't just play against Nurse players (even in the high ranks) that play poorly and call her a bad killer because she couldn't catch someone who was running in a straight line. That's just the player playing poorly. I hate the idea of changing a killer because they are "too hard to play", especially on this game, since it's well known that DbD is an extremely casual game and many players don't want to take the time + effort to play a killer properly. Using the flannel a few times helps you figure out where you go with how long you hold the button, and if you know how her blink works, then it's usually your fault when you don't catch someone. After the flannel, using her double -blink fatigue duration addons makes her even more scary. I don't mean to come off as being rude or a know-it-all, but I just want people to look at the fact that she can teleport through floors and obstacles, ignore pallets and windows, and realize at face value that she is very strong and nigh unstoppable when played properly.
I have seen many threads with comments such as "balancing the game around bad/low rank players is bad", which is very true. Why is it then that I usually see threads (concerning Nurse) talking about how Nurse is too hard for most people to play and that she needs to be reworked because of that? Isn't that exactly the thing that needs to be avoided, balancing a killer's skill level around inexperienced players?
Post edited by Hippie on3 -
Console Nurse main here. Some fair changes I'd like to see for her in addition to bug fixes would be to slightly decrease the blink recharge time and nerf the add-ons that decrease charge time to compensate in order to make them less necessary on certain maps. Currently fragile wheeze decreases recharge time by .9 seconds and the dark cincture addon decreases it by .6 seconds. By default I'd decrease the recharge time by .5 seconds and nerf the fragile wheeze from .9 to .6 less recovery and the dark cincture from .6 to .4 . This will make the add-ons feel less necessary to run especially on maps like lerys where survivors are constantly losing LOS. I'd also increase the default chain blink window time by .15 seconds and if that is enough then I'd revert the change where she becomes visible to the survivors just before ending her blink.
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The only issue with nurse is her bugs. Everything else is addressed by simply playing her well and reacting, instead of predicting. But there is no reason to play her when she just whiffs half her blinks due to bugs. It's so stupid.
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The only people I ever see defending the rework are people that don't understand why it's fundementally flawed in the first place.
There was no problem with "spamming 5 blinks in a row" (outside of the 5blink addon combo) because spamming blinks doesn't reward you, you have to aim, time, and predict for every single blink attack otherwise you won't get anything.
If they are insistent on keeping the god awful cooldowns then at the very least we need a slower charge rate instead of zero charge when holding a blink so you don't get 99% because that is just a failure of game design that that can even happen tbh.
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I'm sorry, but I have no idea how she is flawed. Hard to play and punishing if you make mistakes/don't play her properly, yes, but not flawed. Please keep in mind that the only experience I have playing her is post-rework, so besides watching videos of old Nurse I only have her current state to go off of. To me, she feels awesome to play, is perfectly viable and is one of the strongest killers in the game. The only time I've had a problem with the blink recharge rate was when I was being impatient and not paying attention to the icon, so I don't feel that that's too big of an issue.
Also, I would like to say that it's basically the same now.... you have to use proper timing and aim to succeed with her current kit as well! However, I don't think that prediction works well with the current Nurse, as I've had much better luck just catching up to the person rather than trying to cut them off. Only blinking when you're able to land a hit and walking(?) everywhere else is definitely key.
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Fix her bugs. You'd think, when she was being handled, that would be the time to do it, but I suppose it wasn't a priority for the devs. Makes me think the bugs are intentional.
Her addon rework seemed to be half baked. Like they weren't even trying. Much like Demo's addons. Half are useless, a quarter are memes, and the final quarter are what you need to make her work. I agree that omega blink should never have been a thing, but come on. Gutting the majority? Lazy.
Then her cooldown, which is just a cooldown on top of a cooldown. How is that not a lazy cop out?
Some rework ideas. Keep her cooldown, but remove her fatigue. Honestly, a stun simulator isn't very fun to play. I'd be more agreeable if I wasn't looking at the ground half the match, either from a bad blink or her bugs forcing me into it.
Apply the cooldown, but only after a successful blink attack. That way, she maintains her movement based style withought having being hamstrung by a double cooldown, but also giving survivors a chance to escape after they've been hit.
Give her only one blink, no cooldown, and 110% movement.
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You need to play old nurse to understand. I myself have put in the time and effort to get good with New Nurse, and here is the problem the we veteran nurse mains have with her. "HER COOLDOWN MAKES HER UNFUN AND BORING TO PLAY"
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Get rid of her bugs and her CD and rework her add-ons. The deal was to rework her add-ons and instead BHVR lied to us and nerfed her, than left her game breaking bugs intact
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I'll explain why the current rework is flawed. Firstly, it was supposed to fix her problem of half of her addons almost never being used or even being useful, because we still have like half of them as dead addons. I literally only go for 2 of them now when before I would go for like 4.
Secondly, her chases before the rework required skill on the part of the Nurse AND the survivor. It wasn't easy to juke her but if you knew what to do and where to run it was engaging because a chase that went on for a while felt much more skill based than it does now. Now, you can just run in a straight line if they aren't running the cooldown addons which is braindead level thinking. You can double back almost always during the 2nd blink charge and pretty much guarantee another 2 blinks just to catch up again if not more. Basically it just turned the skillful interaction part for survivors into braindead level strats where anyone can do it if they watch a 3 minute video.
There were so many complaints from Nurse players explaining in extreme detail why this was bad and it was ALL ignored. The only changes that came from the PTB were more nerfs. We threw so many ideas at them that were better and still retained the skill interaction on both parts but it fell on deaf ears.
Yes current Nurse is still strong but it's so very unfun when the game is so stacked against you. I encounter the no blink bug usually every match at some point, the server is constantly giving survivors free escapes and gens even if I've been grabbing them on my screen, and the balance of the game lets survivors with experience bully most every killer that isn't playing perfectly.
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I think the map resizing will help but one thing is for sure, a lot of people do not find her "Fun" to play as, including myself.
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Before anyone should think about any Buffs, Nerfs or Reworks of Nurse, all the Bugs should be fixed.
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Dude they did not even bother to fix her bugs, like they do not give a ######### about the experience that you do have as a nurse. Honestly this was confirmed when they superfast eliminated the movement speedbug and yet kept every other bug that the killer struggles with as is. And you know this is kinda the consequence of them pushing out content on a set schedule.
Each update/patch brings more bugs and thus they can not fix all of them and hopefully enough people forget about it or simply play another killer as it becomes to frustrating to deal with.
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alright bois hear me out
Do you all remember when they made it so pallets stunned nurse? around that time or at that update they increased nurses lunge after blinking however it was reverted the next update
so why not just give that back to nurse? I think it will drastically help newer players and it doesn't affect those who are already really good at her (also known as the only ones who play her anymore).
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- I actually consider myself lucky to never have played old Nurse, judging by the amount of people who are upset with her current kit! Thankfully, I can appreciate the way she is now because I have nothing to compare her to. Her cooldown really doesn't bother me whatsoever, as I know that she would be absolutely busted if she didn't have it. I think the best thing that all old Nurse mains could do for themselves is to forget about the old and embrace the new, after all it is just a casual video game and it HAS been 6 months since she was changed. She really is fun to play and extremely powerful, and I almost always have great games with her, and I still haven't encountered a bug so far!
- I do agree, many of her addons are kind of useless (except for niche/meme builds), but that is basically true for most killers, so I wouldn't say that's specifically a Nurse issue, but moreso just a general issue among most killers. Oni has useless addons, Doctor has useless addons, Deathslinger has useless addons, Legion has useless addons, and so on. I think that an overall rework of most killer addons would be great. Also, the only Nurses who get juked by survivors who run in a straight line are blinking too much. She is ONLY .15 slower than a survivor, and people seem to think that she is so slow that the only way she can keep up with people is to blink. This leads to panic blinking and wasting time. When I play Nurse, people hide because they know that I will catch them as soon as I see them, and running in a straight line doesn't work. So, that is a problem with Nurse players, not Nurse herself. Also, to tell you the truth, game developers will generally not listen to the people who main the character when it comes to changing them because the character mains will generally be biased and not know what is best for the overall health of the game. Many people complained when Oni's flick was taken away (for good reason), and while it was returned, it was nerfed to be more healthy for typical gameplay. However, people still seem to think that he is trash even though he isn't whatsoever, he's just hard to play properly. Same for Nurse. And I don't play perfectly in my games, I still miss blinks and blink without both being available, but I still have fun and manage to win more games than not.
All in all, I'm glad there aren't more people playing Nurse properly, as I feel like survivor would then ACTUALLY be a pain in the rear.... 😓
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on PC? Still quite a few in RR.
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What I hate the most about Nurse besides dead zones is the Pallet stun then the fatigue, and recharge still isn’t full on her two base kit blinks.
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no, its rlly situational to every killer, but nurse can do it every time
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rlly sad, I hope ppl start playing her again
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Like I said brother/sister. I have put in the effort to get good with new nurse and I just don't like her because she isn't fun anymore. Even 2 of the communities best Nurse main's said that she isn't fun to play anymore
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Not only are you spitting hard facts, but usually after any changes that they do, they do a satisfaction survey. Did you not notice how they didn't do a Nurse satisfaction survey?
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It would be nice if they changed the cooldown but Nurses main issue is her bugs
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No survey was needed as the negative feedback from the ptb and further just piled up, they managed to ignore everything. Some people like to pretend all of it was kneejerk reactions but looking up the feedback displays that this was not the case and lots of good constructive stuff has been said in great detail.
No idea whether it is cause they do not care or are unable, take your pick.
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I agree with the guy who said he's only played Nurse post-nerf.
Obviously if people get to play a character with training wheels and then get them taken off, many people are going to see it as a lot less fun. And I also agree with the point of "people are always saying we shouldn't balance around the low skill players, so why should it be different with Nurse?"
Seriously, she's still the best killer in the game in good hands and she's one of the few killers that you can't really loop. If that isn't fun to you, maybe just try another killer?
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Explain to me what is fun about having 2 stuns and on top of it you are useless for 6 seconds while you wait for your power just so you can move effectively?
She was fun before because she required skill. She requires way more patience now, and skill didn't really increase because there's just so much out of your control now.
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Because if you're good you get to be the best killer in the game..? Again, if that's not fun to you just because of the stuns, try another killer.
This is just my opinion but I don't think she took as much skill before as people think. I played her before her rework (not as a main, just played her) and I still felt like she was too easy. I was confused why people were saying she was the hardest killer in the game. She felt so easy mode that I actually resolved to just not play her any further. Made the game boring.
Now I actually consider trying her again, (even though I still haven't yet) because she isn't easy mode anymore.
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But doesn't it mean something if her usage has gone down even less?
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Does it mean something? Yes. Is that something bad? I wouldn't say so, not automatically. It could be for many reasons, individually or combined.
I imagine that the bugs are probably something that deters people, and I definitely agree that straight up bugs need to be squashed. But personally, I don't automatically think because she is played less that that indicates something bad. I think a major factor in the fact that she's played even less now is that, as I said, she was like a bike with training wheels before. Now the training wheels are off, so probably the people who really enjoy the character for the character itself, and not the easy wins she brings, are going to stay dedicated to her. The ones that just used her because she was god tier, suddenly feel the pressure of the training wheels being taken off.
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That's the problem, the rework didn't make her take more skill to play, it only takes more patience. There is nothing new you can do, it is literally a limitation in every single conceivable way with no other positive in sight. So if nothing changed except less blinks per game, the skill involved didn't really change either. You just need ######### tons more patience than before.
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What I said before is that she felt easy mode to me and that's why I didn't want to play her. More patience required or not, I'd still rather have her in this state (without the bugs obviously) where it actually takes people that are dedicated to learning her to do well with her. Not like before where any schmuck could pick her up, play her for a handful of games, and dominate just because of how powerful her ability is.
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You need to balance a character. Not make him ridiculously annoying to play just so nobody cares anymore.
Nurse main 1.5k hours red ranks btw.
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Lmao what you're describing isn't even a real problem. She is the hardest killer to learn, that was well established before her rework. She already took many many hours to learn and not get curb stomped, that is COMMON KNOWLEDGE. You are describing a fantasy argument.
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@Huff I both agree & disagree with your take on Nurse. Yes, Nurse was a bit OP prior to her rework/changes. Her addons were either too OP or never used. A good Nurse basically never lost unless a survivor team was really good. Changing her did "take of the training wheels" for those who wanted to play Nurse.
But where I disagree is how they went about reworking her. Her addons are split into 2 groups now: essential & situational/useless. So they failed at addressing her addons seeming only useless or OP issue. The recharge mechanic on top of a stun currently is just so annoying. Not to mention her movement speed is slower than survivor running speed. The devs intention with this was to give more time to survivors to break LoS, but now its just used to gain more distance from her. Ending a chase as Nurse is overly tedious against a good survivor. I almost never have an issue against Nurse as survivor, & it's because I know how to use her power against her. It is not hard for survivors to learn this now, while before the rework it actually took skill in order to counter Nurse. But this isn't me saying Nurse needs to be reverted back to her old self, but rather something else has to be done because the devs failed at addressing the issues the community had with Nurse. The skill/reward ratio that is supposed to come from Nurse now feels off because of how tedious she is to play.
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Well I guess I must just have a gigantic brain then because "many hours" wouldn't describe what it took for me to whoop the survivors on Nurse.
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I don't disagree with anything you said I don't think, at least anything worth mentioning. The whole point of that I'm trying to bash this guy upside the head with is that I just highly disagree personally that Nurse is this "pinnacle of skill" kind of character people make her out to be. You hold down a button to teleport a certain range, depending on charge, and you ignore practically all obstacles any other killer has to pay attention to. I can respect people who say that after her nerf, she might be annoying to play. Thing is, all I have to say is: then play another character. If you don't want to accept the annoying parts to take advantage of what's potentially the strongest killer in the game, then step aside for the people who will man up enough to take on that downside. I want to reiterate: I'm obviously against her being buggy. If you're annoyed over that, that's perfectly legit.
I can't comment on the add ons and stuff much because I dabbled in Nurse before, and told myself she was simply too easy mode to find fun for me. What I can say as somebody who played her then, is that it's laughable to me that somebody can tell me my own experience is a "fantasy argument" and that it's "common knowledge" that a Nurse took many hours before her nerf to "learn and not get stomped."
Side note: if you're somebody who's got experience with Nurse (as it seems like you do, with the way you talk about her add ons and stuff) do you think I should give her another shot, considering I found her too easy before? I'm not necessarily asking for the sake of winning, but just for the sake of getting into the character.
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I don't want to call you out or anything, but ask ANYONE who mains Nurse or has played this game for a long time. You will get the answer that Nurse is the single hardest killer in the game to learn. You're going to have to forgive me if I dismiss your point simply because you feel like a god Nurse after only a few matches.
Now if you were playing against sweaty SWF seal team 6 and consistently whooped ass and only had a few hours of her under your belt that would be a different story, but I doubt that's what is happening.
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Lol I doubt that very much..based on what I've seen myself..even then..the nurses I have seen have lost pretty much every time..red flag by any standards
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Well I'm learning Nurse on Xbox right now, got tired of red ranks so was a perfect way to derank. The only thing I really don't like is the blink bugs that keep happening. I don't think she needs a rework? I can feel now when things starting to click for me that this killer will get me back to red ranks again. Give me a couple of more days, or weeks 😀
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It's not just me. I still to this day hear high profile streamers talking about how Nurse is still one of the best if not the best. I know people get carried away on these forums by treating streamers like the true masters of the game, but honestly wtih some people like Monto you have to admit they know the game well enough to know what they're saying.
But fair enough. If you refuse to believe that anybody could get used to Nurse and not get stomped with her, and your one test to disprove that is "playing against sweaty SWF seal team 6 and consistently whooped ass and only a few hours under your belt" then yeah, nobody is going to be able to change your mind. Mostly because that just doesn't happen: people don't just constantly go against pure SWF.
But I'm sorry I can't convince you it's not a huge feat to hold down and release a button to teleport.
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they are there and the good ones are still godly.
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I'll believe that when I see it..because last I checked..every nurse main of repute either quite her entirely or says shes just screwed rn..so I'm more leaning toward their thoughts..plus as a nurse main myself I can very well see where she stands
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To be clear my main issue is how you claim in only a few hours you're suddenly so good with Nurse you think she's broken, but it is accepted fact by the DbD community that it takes MANY hours to just LEARN Nurse, and many more to crush with her. I doubt you've picked her up and achieved this level of competency in such a short time.
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Food for thought: If she was sooooooo good as streamers like to make her out to be, why does nobody play her? They avoid her like a plague because she is bad and a clunky mess due to the cooldown mechanic. And when they face the rare Nurse, it is always a "baby nurse". Streamers never liked the old nurse because a good one could stop them. No matter how good you got with other killers, the looping mechanics in the game allows survivors to be invincible.
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If I were the devs, I would do a complete rework of her entire playstyle. I would remove the blinking completely and just make her into something else that is more fun and accessable to all levels of players.
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She is more than that. It's all about positioning between the Survivor and her, figuring out where she blinks, where they go etc. Pallets are even usable against her in other ways. It's a different type of mindgame compared to looping. That's why I think that they made her blinks a little bit more readable was a good change from their side. She had it a little bit to easy at shorter blinks and bad connections.
Thing is no matter how you look at her additional cooldown or not it's just undeniable that her entire new playstyle is not fun anymore. And that mostly because she has an artifical crippled momentum with two different parallel running cooldowns. The only other killer who has something like this ist Legion. And their stun plus cooldown combo works only because their power is not designed as a primary movement tool and has to recharged for a longer time, while they can move and chase with normal movement speed. Their momentum isn't hindered by the artifical cooldown. That's the issue with the Nurse now. No matter how you look at it. It's just a bad design. And shouldn't be in the game or reconsidered.
I understand where you are coming from. But that would be kinda sad. She is one of the true game changers in this game. Her entire chase etc. is different because of her quite unique mechanic. Something would be truelly lost, if we lose her playstyle. No matter as annoying you think it is.
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