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Why not add chat and balance assuming SWF?
This is something I don't think I have seen anyone mention. Why don't the devs just add a chat for all survivors, so anyone who lobbies together can talk? Then once they do that, they can make better balance changes assuming SWF at all times.
Yes this will make it harder for killer until changes are made. However, it seems most people agree that the capability of a team completely changes solo vs SWF. The things that are put in place to help a solo essentially stand on their own can be very abused by SWF teams. If we can give every team the full tools of a SWF, you are only balancing for one type of team (coordinated) instead of putting in "what ifs" for solo teams (uncoordinated).
I also see potential for this reducing the effectiveness of some information parks like kindred, etc. But not making them obsolete. Tbh, this game isn't super easy for callouts anyway, but seeing auras still gives you moment to moment info that verbal communication may not provide. Plus, these perks could be tweaked.
I know this would realistically be a massive undertaking for the dev team. Potential server upgrades for the voice comms, adding the interface for the comms, bug fixes for adding new features are usually a pain, and of course the actual balancing is a lot of work. However, I could see it both reducing the work behind future balancing efforts as well as making the game feel more consistent between matches.(Consistency is kind of overlooked sometimes but very important for player experience.)
The only other main argument against it is that it doesn't fit the aesthetic of a "horror" game. Imo this is not a horror game, but a multiplayer game with horror aesthetics. If you can queue up with other people, you have to assume they are talking to each other. And if the communication between survivors makes as big of a difference as the community feels, then making sure all the teams have the same basic tools should only help you in terms of balancing and consistency.
Sorry for the very long post, I just wanted to hit as many points as I could. What are your opinions? Is there anything I missed with this? I'd also love to hear some counter opinions :)
Comments
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ok i guess you're one of those that thinks noone ever gave that idea, just find other post about it and read 1000000000 arguments why that wont happen/its bad idea, if you want i can copy paste one of my comments to those but still read forum instead of making 1000s thread about same idea
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Survivors playing together should have speakers on their model. And depending on the size of the lobby, they shoulg get an action speed debuff.
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Because nobody wants to hear a 11 y.o stating how he’s fkd your mum
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No, that just punishes solo players because their teammates are slower, SWF doesn't automatically make you unbeatable.
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Not unbeatable, but they have the advantage of cordination. If they play well they would be more usefull than a couple of solos. But if they suck, that’s the same as having bad solo teammates.
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Sorry Idea police, didn't know we weren't allowed to think alike at times. Sorry sir!
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Woah dude, I have been coming here on occasion for a while now. Not a whole ton, but here and there. I just haven't seen any people talk about this in my time here. Sorry I set you off so bad right in the first sentence though. Wasn't trying to be "special" with my legitimate question. I didn't think I was the only one who thought about it, I just said I haven't really seen people mention it and gave a detailed explanation of why I think it's a good idea.
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So do SWF who don't use comms just get punished now for free?
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dude we have like 2 or 3 those threads per day xd just use 5 mins to scroll at most 2 pages xd (im just teaching ppl to think before literally spamming) its not idea police its antispam police xd
ok so let me answer your question, why built in voice comms would be bad:
at 1st youre assuming ppl would talk to you in english (maybe youre from NA but in EU its not that easy there is plenty of ppl that cant/dont even try to type in english in pre game and post game chat, and IMO its harder to make someone speak in english)
2nd youre assuming everybody has good enough micro to use or just are willing to use
3rd do you think most ppl would like to hear 13yo child or ppl that are literally living trolls?
4th not to mention fact that streamers/YT hate voicecoms in game (random shouting N words etc)
i can promise you majority of players would perma turn off this crap and just be punished for that xd
i live in east EU and i dont want to hear in every 2nd game those 2 magic russian words :)
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What about those without a mic?
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This has been brought up many times.
It is a good idea.
The game has been getting 'tuned' to balance the dynamic of swf vs. killer for over a year now - this would be a great way to continue that balance while bringing solo survivors into the fold, as they are currently getting left behind.
Anyone who didn't want to hear an 11 yo talk about f'ing ur mom could mute them... That's how voice comms in multi-player games tend to work.
You could also turn off voice comms altogether--again, part of the typical VC experience.
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I think a good counter to SWF vs a killer would be to add proximity chat to the game. For example, in like a 10 meter radius, that way groups that do openly communicate everything could be punished by the killer's presence.
I don't think it should give a directional cur, as that would make things far too easy, but just the ability to hear them and narrow it down could make for a neat counter to SWF.
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Well if course games should still be winnable with no communication. Albeit harder in this case. But you do still benefit from the other people who have mics making callouts. One surv with a working mic is still very valuable for the rest of the team.
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This does nothing to address the topic of this post, which is bridging the gap for solo survivors.
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LOL, this is mentioned in every discussion on the topic of swf vs solo. BHVR refuses because "reasons". Survivors refuse because they have never considered it would come with a mute option (they argue they'd be forced to listen to trolling 12 year Olds).
The rational folks point out that, in places like EU, it'd be a mixed bag with so many languages being spoken.
In the end, it's all BS, though. Every game with intrinsic chat has a mute option. We have dedicated servers, which means the game can use your language settings or have a seperate option to pick your preferred language and largely make sure it's fairly consistent server to server. The devs can say it goes against the spirit of the game of isolation and limited communication, but they threw that out the window the day they activated swf.
In the end, people partying up with friends pays the bills in Dbd. They enjoy having a significant advantage over the pubs, and BHVR enjoys having them spend money. Neither side is going to support anything that risks that.
So, as usual, solo queue and killers - suck it up, try to counterbalance for the 6-8 perks of free advantages using band aid perks in your four slots, and don't forget to spend money on every new chapter.
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I have a suggestion (ʘ‿ʘ)╯
I like the proximity chat idea, however...
How about solos just get double BP every match?
✌(-‿-)✌
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How'd you get so many upvotes? Has nobody heard of a mute button?
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TBH if this came out I would demand it have the opt in/opt out feature like Overwatch. I'd rather not have a bunch of salty morons trying to talk to me through their mics. Screw a mute button, I'd rather just have an auto mute from the get-go by opting out.
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This community is super toxic, a lot of players would end up muted. Which would then end up throwing out the balance.
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Not really.
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Correct. Adding comms is not a good way to balance out the game, although imo it would be better to have them than to not have them. Giving solos the option to coordinate using voice would go a long way to reduce the pain of the experience, and you can still leave it muted if there's no one saying anything useful or you want to preserve the atmosphere.
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Agreed. Most VC systems have the option to completely turn off in-game chat. It would make sense for that to be an option, as well as being able to mute individual players.
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"Yes this will make it harder for killer until changes are made"
So you think the voice chat should be added BEFORE the changes are ready to balance it, making things even worse for killers? No. That is the last thing the game needs right now.
SWF groups are only one part the balance issues. Until the dev team can figure out how to balance the rest of the game, there is no way they should take on even more balancing issues.
Besides, voice chat is bad. This game is already toxic enough without every idiot with a mic being able to spout their toxic nonsense into other players' ears. SWF groups are friends and coordinate that way. Strangers on chat feel that they can say whatever they want. Currently, you can report abusive text chat. You can't do that with voice chat.
Not to mention, many players don't want other people telling them how to play, which is what would happen. There will also be some asshat that feels that they should be in charge and everyone should listen to them. Those are generally the same types of players that blames other players for their own screw-ups.
Most people would end up just turning off voice chat, so there is no way that you can balance the game around it. And adding it without balancing would just be another issue to make more killers stop playing.
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Mutes a must though. If you can't add it don't add a voice chat system. No way in hell do I wanna hear music blasting, kids crying, terrible mic quality, and young'ins.
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The game is ALREADY balanced around SWF/Killers to the detriment of solo survivors...even more so with the impending patch. So this would allow BHVR to continue to make necessary balance changes between the dynamic of SWF vs. Killer while giving solo survivors a chance.
Also, voice chat is not bad. Most major multi player games have a voice chat system. All of them have easy ways to opt out entirely or mute people you don't want to hear. I don't believe most people would end up turning off voice chat. I think some people would just routinely get muted for being dumb. Which is the same in any game.
Not doing something to drastically level the playing field between SWF/Solo survivors, especially as the game continues to tune specifically because of SWF and with the newest changes, is just going to further alienate the solo survivor community into not playing, which is arguably a larger segment of the player base.
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LOL No it's not. The game is balanced around solo survivors and killers. That is how the game was designed. SWF groups unbalance things for the killers, NOT solo survivors. Voice chat, essentially, removes the need for many perks, allowing those players to focus on specific escape perks.
You also seemed to have missed the part about the game, then, being rebalanced under the assumption that all survivors are using voice chat. That means that the game will have to be made more challenging for survivors in other ways. That would really punish solo survivors that don't want to play with voice chat.
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I always thought they should just balance around swf anyway bc people are gonna do it. And if you’re solo you’ll be a good addition to the rest of the team. Like, I think I some perks that give boosts/buffs to certain aspects should do so for everyone but it shouldn’t stack if everyone uses it. E.g. breakout should work for the user also (maybe tweaked as to not be too viable), but if you’re teammate is also running it then it won’t stack and you’ll just get you’re own wiggle buff and your mate gets their speed boost. Stuff like that so it’s balanced around any type of mm.
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Obviously
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I just feel like you have to have an agreement here. Because it took like 2 years for BHVR to figure out how to keep you in a lobby with your SWF group. Simple tasks for most games takes BHVR a lot longer to accomplish. Something like a mute feature might be obvious for most. But it could take them 3 years.
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Lol you make a good point. The community always has to be specific with the devs, be it that the Nurse should still be fun to play after her "add-on change" or that fixing infinites doesn't mean opening all the windows or making the entire map a deadzone.
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I think the "policing" comment he made was more brought on by your condescension than your point. But it's hard to find anything else through the many "matchmaking unfair" posts. If you're the anti spam police, I direct you to the main culprit.
The points that you made are things all games with chat run into, however they all still feel chat is important enough to ignore those things for. Language barriers are everywhere (not just EU) and you don't need to be fluent to make callouts, just know some choice words, trust me people aren't that dumb when they actually want something.
People without mics still get the benefit of other players callouts, so it's still an improvement for solos.
If someone is being annoying or you're streaming, just mute them. Note how I didn't say "make the game only possible with comms" just to balance for it.
I disagree that most people would turn off the chat. I also play R6 Siege where having a voice chat is incredibly useful for callouts. People keep it on just for the info so they can play their game better. You on rare occasion have to mute someone sure. But those two button clicks are totally worth the info in the many other rounds you play
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comparing R6 to DBD xd
games with voicecoms hmmm friday the 13th had and died, last year hmmm died, League of legends got voice coms but were smart with it and only premade had it (but even after adding that most ppl are using discord because you can talk with ppl from outside of game)
most ppl would turn it off or never used it, and only thing that all survivors would get from it is nerf xd and whenever some random guy ask about it on stream i only see negative answers soo
if you want opinion of more ppl (instead of me having different opinion than yours) just do poll on forum, but you should add "its only to survivor mains" (because you will have "survivor nerf" inside and most killer mains will auto pick it), and make it like that:
Do you want built in voicecoms with randoms (but survivors will be nerfed because of that)?
Yes
No
I will mute it anyway
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Just play in a group. The last thing this game needs is standard comms. This would forever change the meta and not in a healthy way. Imagine as a new killer: body blocking; sabo; flashlight saves; head on stuns etc. every single game at all ranks, IF YOU CAN FIND ANYONE. Also, some perks and status effects like Blindness would become useless.
Part of the fun, and what little balance there is, is catching survivors off guard. For a new player this is crucial.
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Comparing them only in the sense that teamwork is necessary and people agree that comms makes it significantly easier. But I suspect you are ignoring that to try to just poke fun.
Those games didn't die because of voice comms, there were plenty of other issues. In the same vein I could list the ton of games that have voice and are doing fine. Voice comms didn't kill those games so it's not a valid point.
I just don't see the same hate for voice comms that you are experiencing. I have not met anyone with the same opinion that "all voice comms bad" so I cannot see the argument that "most people will turn it off" making any sense. Maybe a few people will, but oh well that's their loss.
Also stop with the "killer main only want surv nerf" thing. It's not some gang war between sides, playing killer more doesn't mean you automatically want weaker survs and vice versa. It would just make the game boring
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your suggestion in particular doesn't get mentioned much, ignore the troll.
Assuming this community wasn't toxic and the stars aligned though. The implimentation of such a feature balance wise would force them to remove so many informational survivor perks some people might have a serious fit. It also might force them to buff killer perks to the point where if you choose not to cooperate as a survivor in the slightest, you lose every time.
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