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HERE'S SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT, MOST OF YOUR COMPLAINTS ARE BASED ON LACK OF SKILL.
**DISCLAIMER: This post assumes the reader knows the difference between a complaint and constructive criticism.**
**ALSO: This pertains to the games mechanics. It has nothing to do with bugs, glitches, and/or lack of the games overall intended performance.**
Dead By Daylight is a 4v1 asymmetric game which makes for having perfect balance near impossible. With that said, the developers at Behaviour have come about as close as they can while constantly tweaking and making adjustments as the game evolves. Both roles have a job to do, while the killer is reliant only on themselves the survivors job is much more team oriented making it to where just one weak link can cause the team to fold. Survivors can be eliminated from a trial one by one slowly lightening the pressure from the killer whereas the killer is an unstoppable force who doesn’t go away. The survivors only defense is to run using raw skill and map knowledge to waste the killers time in order for their team to get objectives done. The killer however also uses skill and map knowledge combined with mind tricks to catch and disable the survivors. Killers also all have a unique ability to give them and added edge. It is imperative that while a killer is focused on a target the rest of the team is focused on objectives. Also, after the killer disables a survivor(hooks or slugs) he puts pressure on the rest of the team. Most survivors lose because people aren’t doing their job and most killers lose because the entire team does their job so well. Now that we’ve covered some basics, lets look at a few things people frequently complain about.
Camping. Everyone hates a camper. If a killer is camping there should not be 2-3 survivors hiding around the hook waiting for a chance to rescue, there should be 2-3 people on gens getting 1-2 to pop before the first hook state is up so the killer knows his time there is being wasted and leaves the hook to hunt. If a killer sees someone in the vicinity of the hook they have no incentive to leave as they know gens aren’t getting done and they have a possible chance at preventing the rescue and/or hooking someone else. The survivor should try to lead the killer away and if they don’t commit to the chase the survivor should immediately get on a gen. How about face camping? In my experience(5000 hrs played) if someone is getting face camped its because they did something the killer didn’t like. Maybe you ran the killer for 3-5 gens, maybe your friend did and when they finally got downed you Luke Skywalker-ed the killer with a flashlight, maybe you’re a Blendette or another character that killer has a personal bias against. Who knows? But I do know that most teams run borrowed timed. A SKILLED team can get a rescue in almost ANY circumstance. The mechanics behind team rescues work in favor of the survivors, hands down. I realize camping ruins the fun for those who don’t know how to deal with it seeing as it happens so often, but really players just need to learn the techniques to combat it.
Lets look at totem spawns. Some people want them better hidden, some people want them easier to find. The truth is, on any given map(for most maps) out of the 5 totems that spawn, 2-3 will be well hidden and 2-3 out in plain sight giving an equal chance for survivors to find the hex quickly or for the killer to prolong it's life. This is in addition to totem locations being relatively standard from realm to realm(in jungle gyms, on hills, upstairs in buildings, in or outside the killer shack). Some say totems should retain progress if the cleansing is stopped. That’s nonsense. Totems don’t take that long to cleanse and they rarely last an entire match. If they were to retain progress every time a killer chased a survivor off them, there would be almost no chance to try to defend them. I realize Hex perks like NOED, Devour Hope, and Ruin are extremely powerful but that’s the logic behind high risk, high reward. If you’re a survivor who struggles with totems, work on your map knowledge. If you’re a killer who can't get value out of Hex perks, work on your map pressure or use other perks that give you more value.
Flashlights! Oh, what a headache these are for killers in the right(or wrong) hands. For a killer to be blinded and drop a survivors 4-5 times in a game is infuriating. I get it, but do u know how difficult flashlights are to learn to use properly? I would honestly say that of all the people I have seen attempt a flashlight save, less than 20 percent succeeded. Not only that, but id say a solid 25-30 percent weren't even close and paid the price after the killer puts the survivor they picked up on the hook. Now, a good killer will look around or face a wall if they know another survivor has one. So yes, they are strong but both sides have their pros and cons with them.
Killers are over-powered? They certainly are not. Have you ever seen an elite SWF absolutely terrorize a killer like they were The Strangers? When a team has clear communication, encyclopedic map knowledge, parkour looping skills, and executes teamwork with military precision they are near unbeatable for any killer. The fact is, SWF is over-powered. The reason so many matches result in a 4-kill is because survivors don’t work as a team, focus on objectives, and make poor decisions. I have had many a night where I queued as a solo survivor and escaped 20+ games in a row, without communication. I have also had nights where my entire team died with the same consistency. If survivors spend time crouching and hiding, using urban evasion to get around, getting off gens when they hear the slightest heartbeat, leaving gens to get a rescue, not commiting at crunch time, running to the corner to heal, self-caring every time they get hit, stopping to do totems or search chests when the killer has extreme pressure on them, playing scared or extremely cautious, and not maintaining gen pressure then they are doomed to lose, even against sub-par killers. All of those examples happen in a majority of matches and they all come down to the players lack of fundamentals and poor decision making. Keeping in mind that every match is different and RNG can also play a role in the outcome of any given match, there really is no greater common denominator for why survivors lose than the teams conduct.
With all of these things taken into account it brings me back to balancing. The game is designed for both sides to thrive equally. Nobody would play this game if 4 survivors died every game, or if all 4 escaped. There has to be a happy medium for both killers and survivors to enjoy. If you think it has been an easy road for the developers to get this game where it is today as well as continue to improve it and keep it balanced, think again. I'll reiterate my feelings that they(the devs) have done a well as they could have thus far. If you find yourself always having things to complain about, maybe you should look at your own skills as a player and see where you need improve. Its very rare that I hear top tier killers OR survivors complain about so many of the communities common issues. If you are truly top tier in both roles and still have room for complaints, maybe you should think about switching to a different game.
Comments
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Close the forum, this man just said it all. The only thing I would add comes in on flashlights. Skill is one thing, but its absolutely unacceptable for a killer to be blinded by something he can't even see. On numerous occasions, I've been blinded while staring at a wall.
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Agreed.
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Oh yeah, I apologize for my lack of skill whenever my Nurse loses her secondary blink.
I apologize for my lack of skill when I get face camped after a 3 gen chase.
I'm so sorry.
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He covered bugs and camping.
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Like i said, every game is different but if you die on the hook because you're being face camped(more often than not) it's likely because your team didn't have the skill required to save you. I understand if you have one teammate left and they don't have Borrowed Time, that's the nature of the game sometimes. However, if you have a full squad there are very few excuses why they can't save you, not having Borrowed Time isn't one of them.
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This is a well known bug infested, poorly optimized game and there isn't one like it.
Your entire post is invalid. There are mutiple factors that determine gameplay and "skill" isn't the only one.
People complain about bugs, hitboxes, latency, servers and lag.
That's not on them, that's not "skill" based gameplay.
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One thing that needs to be changed is how borrowed time works. If you're running it and get hooked, it should work on you. So basically like ds, it's a personal perk and only works on you.
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if you're solo the rest of the team won't know you have it so it would be a gamble for them to guess if you did or not.
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I don't know why my posts aren't making it up but... go read the first two lines again since you clearly missed the two most important sentences in the entire piece.
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You just can't say something like "This doesn't account for game bugs, glitches, lag," when the game factors in this by about 60% of your game experience.
Post edited by BigBrainMegMain on4 -
I agree and disagree.
Yes, people who complain here often describe scenarios which clearly illustrate their lack of skill in a situation. I think the community does a good (albeit sometimes brutally honest) job of telling them how they could improve.
That does not negate the fact that there are also complaints rooted in the same level of experience you yourself have with the game - complaints centered around the very issues you mentioned. Which is where I humbly disagree with some of your statements about those issues. It is not always a lack of personal skill.
At the end of the day, DBD encourages people to come here to the forums and share their experiences, thoughts, vent, etc. with the greater community. So people need to continue to do so. I'm sure the community is keen on continuing to tell them whether their complaint seems legit or an area they may need some personal improvement.
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Look up. It's literally that simple. Even when breaking a pallet. Game is currently broken so you can stop the animation and look up.
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But I can because first of all if 60 percent of the games functions didn't work as intended it would be rendered inoperable. Secondly, this was referencing things like perks, items, add-ons, killer powers, game mechanics, and game play tactics and strategies. It had nothing to do with game malfunctions. Now, let me help you with the proper quote.
"This pertains to the games mechanics. It has nothing to do with bugs, glitches, and/or lack of the games overall intended performance."
What that means is this was written solely about complaints pertaining to certain things in the game being too strong, game play tactics that seem unfair or are unfun, as well as game balancing. Hence, "it has nothing to do with bugs, glitches, and/or LACK OF the games overall INTENDED performance."
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Video proof?
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It saddens me that the disclaimers are necessary.
But I do more or less agree - at most, there are some points which may be up for debate, but there's nothing I passionately disagree with you on. So in general, well said.
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Go check out any killer main stream. This ######### has been going on since February and it's annoying asf when you have a flashlight daily. Just look up as you press the button to break pallet and you're stuck looking up in the animation. Outside of pallets you can literally look up and if you need video proof of that I can't help you with that one.
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"But I can because first of all if 60 percent of the games functions didn't work as intended it would be rendered inoperable"
- Why do people Dead Hard, get downed and Exhausted on the floor?
- Why do people get hit after dropping a pallet when the hit shouldn't have connected?
Rather than having me ramble on and on, let me show you.
This happened to me, PC. I get to Rank 1 every month and I stop playing survivor because of this.
The Ghostface must have had a better gaming chair than me I guess.
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I'm sorry, I got lost in this post. In part one, who is "them"?(I'm assuming this meant us voicing our opinions to the devs?)
"That does not negate the fact that there are also complaints rooted in the same level of experience you yourself have with the game"
I'm confused, could you reword it? I'm not particularly sure what "my level of experience" means. I certainly do have complaints, but they are not aggressively aimed at balancing or intended mechanics. Most of them(and there are quite a few) are centered around things like quality of life. Not that balancing OR optimization don't count towards quality of life, but they are both closer to massively agreeable facts throughout the entire community and less based on personal opinion or preference.
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The problem is, with DBD, players from both side of the aisle has a certain ego attached to them.
I know rank doesn't matter, but I know some friends who HATES to depip, like hate it with a passion. They think it's humiliating that they depipped, even though no one asked if they depipped or not.
So while yes, most of the complaints tend to be based on people's lack of skill (The amount of complaints against Freddy, Spirit, NoeD, SWF teams, flashlights and DS just solidifies that). Some people just won't listen because they don't want to be told they need to "Git Gud". They think they already are, and are unwilling to get better.
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Kid, go take ritalin so you can focus. I said things pertaining to the game in its proper working order, that's number one. Number two, I understand that bugs, glitches, latency, connection lag, hit boxes, and other optimization issues pose a heavy problem but that's not what this was written about. And number three, 60 percent of game function is an overwhelming portion to not work. You're talking about The end result of 6 out of every 10 matches being either completely unfair, not even making it to the end, or just not loading in or functioning at all. Not only that but you're also getting into things like perks, offerings, items/add-ons, as well as daily rituals, the store, even settings all completely malfunctioning at the same time. I know, the game has problems but saying 60 percent is like saying The Patriots won every Super Bowl for the last 20 years. We understand why you say it, but you're stretching the truth a little too far.
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Its 4am, so no, I really can't. 😴
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"Most of your complaints are based on lack of skill"... How is it lack of skill when the game is literally Killer sided? Survivor Latency is the biggest flaw this game has that leads to Killers being superior. Dead Hard not working, being hit after vaulting when you're a mile away, being hit while dropping a pallet, or pallets just not dropping at all even though you mashed your space bar into oblivion.. And camping killers have nothing to do with skill, "Just do gens" is a bs excuse and fix to the overall issue. The fact of the matter is, the killer is A) wasting a players time B) making it a poor experience for said player that just sat in a 10-15 minute survivor queue C) gets rewarded for literally not having skill.
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Thank you! Someone said it!
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Kid, lol
Yeah, you're the adult here with your title all in caps. I'm done replying.
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He said "without taking bugs into account", but bugs and exploits are definitly a huge part of the game.
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Balancewise you are completely right.
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Did you really just say this game is killer sided? First, the skill cap for killer is much higher because mechanically they are at a disadvantage and outnumbered. Two, Dead Hard isn't broken. The reason people go down when they use it is because Dead Hard is only active for a split second while hits register in an instant. In order for Dead Hard to avoid the hit it has to be timed properly, which is extremely difficult. Hence why a lot more people don't use it, and why many who do use it improperly. Dead Hard is not meant to just avoid a hit , it's meant to give the survivor a slight window of extension to get them to a window or a pallet. It's foolish to think that a perk could not only be considered, but considered meta when it's use was solely based on clairvoyance. Three, camping is not an "issue", it's a tactic and a foolish one at that. What is camping? Camping is staying at a hook and waiting for someone to come to the rescue instead of going to look for them. The killer is only wasting the survivors time if the survivors don't make use of it. As a general rule, if there are 2 gens done and one being worked on when a survivor takes their first hook and the killer is camping, the rest of the team has sufficient time to finish the gens and get the rescue before the end of second hook state. The killer does not run on the survivors time, both roles run on the killers time. The less time the killer has to chase, the greater the chance of the survivors escaping. When survivors aren't doing gens they are not wasting their own time. They are in fact giving time to the killer. Top tier killers don't camp(unjustifiably), lower tier killers do. The reason is because top tier killers know that good survivors are taking away from their time by getting gens done. If a killer knows someone is close and focused on rescue they won't move, and that's not camping. Complaining that the killer camped your entire team to death state because you showed the killer you weren't getting anything done, doesn't mean there is something wrong with the game. It means the survivor needs to improve their fundamentals and the way they play. Camping is so frequent because there SO MANY survivors who reward killers time and time again by not doing their job that they just keep doing it because it works for them.
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Kid, you didn't just hit the nail on the head, you drove it in with a ramset!
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Well, you keep arguing with bugs while he is saying that's not the topic.
Your argument to continue talking about bugs is "60%"
Having a game with that pallet hit or being downed exhausted by deadhard doesn't render the whole match malfunctioning. There are 100+ actions during the match that are working as intended.
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Like I said.
I'm done replying, but you can't just ignore these key factors that go into each match.
In a day or two, this topic will be lost in the sands of time.
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He went over face camping. There are plenty of videos of people rescuing people being camped. Even face camped. Its called skill. The skill of your team. Like it or not, this is a team oriented experience. No survivor should be able to 1v1 the killer the entire game.
Complain all you want about bugs and glitches. He never said not to. Bugs and glitches were left out for a reason. There are fundamental areas that people need to learn. Bugs and glitches make it harder yes, but barring any of them, there are no situations, except maybe Mori, that skill can't overcome.
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well, if you don't focus on the topic, your arguments are not adding value, so fine with that. The forum is filled with threads about NOED, SWF, camping, tunneling and what the heck else. Compared to complaints about bugs, this is by far the majority.
Sure are bugs a thing, but you said that the entire OP is invalid. The OP is 'complaints about things working as expected are mostly lack of skill'
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I guess what he means is "1v1 is killer sided" and doesn't even know this himself
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Yeah some people, seem to lose all sense and reason, when it comes to certain killers they personally dislike, by down playing certain perks. I seen people say oh yeah, spine chill only good against spirit. Iron Will, only good against spirits. With the first perk, being one that gives you a warning when a killer is looking your way. Useful information to have. Even if they are a ghostface using their power, spine chill will still work. While the second, stops you from making noise while injured. Since one of the ways killers can find survivors, is with noise. While iron will stops the noise when injured, making it very useful, against more than just spirit.
That or one person who i came across,wants to delete Oni from the game, is fine with Billy but Oni who has to work for his power, should be deleted from the game.
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Yes, stating that killers are OP shows a lack of fundamentals. In-game mechanics(mostly) favor survivors. From the quantity and placement of pallets, to the design of jungle gyms and other structures, the level of safety in a majority of pallet loops, the routes and lack of dead zones that connect loops, the minor differential in killer vs survivor movement speed, the speed boost survivors get when hit, the (current)gen repair speeds all favor survivors. I went over the reasons most teams fail, especially against sub-par killers. With so many things favoring the survivors, failing on even a semi-regular basis shows lack of core fundamentals. Running the killer for 3-5 gens is more fundamental. Getting to gens and doing them while the killer is preoccupied is more instinct. Knowing when to shift your focus from one objective to another and how long it takes to do so is more based on experience. How well a player is able to do all these things equally determines their overall skill.
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my biggest complaint about this game is that people's motivation for bloodpoints severely lowers gameplay quality.
For example:
- almost every killer using BBQ, which makes killer playstyles repetitive, and a good number of survivors always enter lockers when someone's hooked.
- Survivors racing each other to instantly unhook a survivor because they want the points for it, which negatively affects survivor productivity, and screws over the hooked person.
- Survivors using "We're Gonna Live Forever" and doing unsafe unhooks on purpose, because it's an easy way to get 2 tokens (protection hit during the unhook, and safe hook rescue because the game counts it as safe if enough time passes without the unhooked person being downed).
My last game, there was a survivor who body blocked me in a corner because they wanted to heal me for points, even tho I had just destroyed a hex totem in that corner (and I had a medkit), and the killer was approaching the location after getting the loud noise notification. The survivor who did it was rank 1.
I feel like the developers need to change the core mechanics around these kind of things so that people aren't motivated to play poorly because it ends up giving them easy points. I know, I know, if you play in a skillful manner, you can get a lot of points as well. But I see this kind of behavior from red rank players.
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Yes I'm rank 1 survivor and would never complain about camping and such. It's newbies that have a problem with such strategies. But as killer I can sometimes complain about the worst SWF t-bagging/clicker teams that also message "easy" after they t-bagging at exit gate escapes. I complain about that sometimes but if it's because of lack of skill, I don't think so.
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Well said.
To everyone who reads this remember its not enough for one person to put these words into action but ALL of us.
"It takes a village, not a Batman" - Lego Batman Movie
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Just staring at a wall is not enough, you need to be close at a wall aswell.
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I like this post a lot because it takes jabs at SWF with reasonable comments rather than what appears to be salty bias.
It's refreshing to see that there are still people in the forums who think alike and understand that the game results in the way it does due to our own actions and lack, or abundance, of knowledge of the gameplay mechanics.
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You are right, the current gameplay for survivors just promotes egoistical play. How often did i wait near a hook for the save unhook, just to have another survivor sprint in to take it (while kindred was active and he could see i was there).
Thinks like Gens and unhooks should give points to the whole team, because the one that distracts the camping killer is just as important as the one doing the unhook. Survival points should not be based on individual survival, but on the numbers of survivors that made it out.
that would promote a lot more cooperative play than now. At least i hope it would.
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agreed, it would be nice if at least some of the bloodpoints were shared. For example, if 2 people are next to the hook, and 1 person goes for the unhook, share the points between the 2, giving them 500 each, and maybe even a co-op bonus on top of it, like how you gain co-up bonus points for some other actions.
If that was the case, then the only reason to rush to unhook before someone else does, would be if you had a perk that benefits from it.
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I have been right up against the wall and still got blinded. The angle on the odd bulb is insane.
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Getting looped for 5 gens? Git gud. Having all the gens pop in 5 minutes? Git gud. Great post OP.
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If the whole team is clickspamming and dancing in the exit gate then, i would say you got outplayed. The skillful part comes before they hit the exit gates.
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You can't rescue from a face camp, nor does the campee's skill matter in the process.
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Lol maybe Bhvr has From Softwares mindset where bugs are part of the difficulty and experience.
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Disagree about face camping. Been face camped plenty of times with no provocation. Borrowed Time doesn't do anything vs. camping Wraith, Freddy, Leatherface, etc. It's BS and has nothing to do with skill.
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It used to work on both the rescuer and hook person. The only downside before it was a one time perk like ds.It got changed along the way to being used numerous time.
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