Can we get gen rushing addressed already?

When I play as survivor I'm pretty torn on how quickly to get gens done. If I don't get to work on them immediately then my teammates might not either, or they might be terrible, and things can quickly snowball into getting 0-2 gens done because the killer dominates.

On the other hand, if gens are getting done too quickly then there are a few problems: 1. Even if we succeed and 3 or 4 of us survive, we'll get ######### for points and pips, 2. The killer might get frustrated/discouraged and disconnect, 3. If you do happen to get caught and gens are popping left and right, then you're very likely to get hard camped by a killer desperate to secure one kill, or 4. Killers who play for NOED or end game builds are a lot less likely to put pressure on gens and the quicker they get done, the less likely all 5 totems will be cleansed (and getting downed with NOED and camped because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time feels cheap).

So yes, "gen rushing" sucks for both sides. But when you're a solo player it's incredibly risky not to work on gens and assume your teammates will. I've been chased for the first 3 or 4 minutes of the trial, no gens will pop, and when I'm downed and my teammates' auras are revealed, they'll be sneaking around doing totems and opening chests.

@iceman2kx said:
Before the survivors get all salty at the title, let me state this isn't the typical "wah they finished the gens before I could kill them" QQ. So first, let's address what I am referring to when I say "gen rushing" before we hear the typical, "there is no such thing" argument. Gen rushing is when survivors push generators hard from the beginning of the match and multiple gens are completed within a few minutes. This can be caused by the killer lacking pressure on the map or survivors ignoring everything in order to push the gens. As a killer, when I see 3 gens popped in a few minutes, I get a little frustrated and I think, "wow". As a survivor I think, "okay this is good, but I'll get worthless pips and no points." This is one of the reasons I don't particularly care to play survivor often. What fun is pressing M1 on a generator the entire match?

A very well thought out and respectful post and I thank you for it.

There have been plenty of threads offering additional objectives such as gas / parts for the gens or even finding a key for the gate once the gens are done. It would very much help the stagnation of the game if something was implemented. I'm a survivor main but I do recognise how frustrating a gen rush can be for a killer as well as the response of 'what else do we do?' from fellow survivors.

Also its worth considering giving killers new things to do, or at least new ways to kill. It would have to be something on par with hooking more than once and that ones a little harder for me to come up with at nearly 1am, but it bears thinking about.

Just my rambling two cents anyway.

@Orion said:

@HookedonDemand said:
The whole gen rushing thing confuses me. Isn't finishing the gens literally the only thing survivors need to do to escape ? Why would they wait, to take in the scenery ? It's like complaining that the killer starts killing right away...

Gen rush exists due to a lack of objectives, yes. This isn't a player problem; it's a game design problem. That's why many players - on both sides - want more objectives for the Survivors.

This^ and most of us want and wouldn't mind having to scrounge for parts and or gas as a means to break the monotony. Sicne it's boring as feck to sit there and hold M1 for 80 seconds usually (pc). If they'd just add either or both of those objectives games would last longer and both sides would have a lot more fun.

You'd get more bp of course and killer wouldn't feel like they had to play Nurse/Billy and now Hag or run NOED/RUIN. You'd see a lot more builds getting used on both sides since maps would come into play to find stuff.

Small game or Plunderers Instinct depending on what category gas/parts fell under or perhaps both. The killers could use different perks to track the stuff perhaps from salvage piles. If you're running around well parts could be lost so you have to go back for more. The gas would be same way, run to that gen you lose a % of gas each step.

To really make it interesting you could make the gas be siphoned with skill checks from some of the cars or gas cans etc. If you fail you get an explosion and or lose the gas up to that skill check point etc.

@HookedonDemand said:
The whole gen rushing thing confuses me. Isn't finishing the gens literally the only thing survivors need to do to escape ? Why would they wait, to take in the scenery ? It's like complaining that the killer starts killing right away...

Maybe at the start of the match everyone should stand around for 5 minutes and then start working - sounds good.

@SenzuDuck said:

@HookedonDemand said:
The whole gen rushing thing confuses me. Isn't finishing the gens literally the only thing survivors need to do to escape ? Why would they wait, to take in the scenery ? It's like complaining that the killer starts killing right away...

Maybe at the start of the match everyone should stand around for 5 minutes and then start working - sounds good.

That´s exactly my proposal when survivors complain: "waaahhh killer instantly finds and downs me!"

SenzuDuck said:

@powerbats said:

@Orion said:

@HookedonDemand said:
The whole gen rushing thing confuses me. Isn't finishing the gens literally the only thing survivors need to do to escape ? Why would they wait, to take in the scenery ? It's like complaining that the killer starts killing right away...

Gen rush exists due to a lack of objectives, yes. This isn't a player problem; it's a game design problem. That's why many players - on both sides - want more objectives for the Survivors.

This^ and most of us want and wouldn't mind having to scrounge for parts and or gas as a means to break the monotony. Sicne it's boring as feck to sit there and hold M1 for 80 seconds usually (pc). If they'd just add either or both of those objectives games would last longer and both sides would have a lot more fun.

You'd get more bp of course and killer wouldn't feel like they had to play Nurse/Billy and now Hag or run NOED/RUIN. You'd see a lot more builds getting used on both sides since maps would come into play to find stuff.

Small game or Plunderers Instinct depending on what category gas/parts fell under or perhaps both. The killers could use different perks to track the stuff perhaps from salvage piles. If you're running around well parts could be lost so you have to go back for more. The gas would be same way, run to that gen you lose a % of gas each step.

To really make it interesting you could make the gas be siphoned with skill checks from some of the cars or gas cans etc. If you fail you get an explosion and or lose the gas up to that skill check point etc.

Thankfully they mantioned something else about addiotional objectives in the last Q&A.

Another thing they need to do is remove the useless cap that both killer and survivors have on their 4 emblems, let everyone earn more if everyone has to do more.

I've been saying remove cap for ages .why limit points I earn thru game

@Orion said:

@HeavenlyClassic said:
Gen rushing is a ridiculous complaint .
Like saying a killer is hooking people too quickly or sumthin.
It's literally the objective.
And if u get good team,its gonna happen. 
Why? Because there isnt much more to do that's valuable.
And yes its laughable to have to at the end,go and search for the killer and try and get him to chase just so I dont depip. 
But popping totems is about the closest thing to anything other than gens that's worth doing .
I wouldnt say its flawed system as it depends on survivors and killer. But yes I agree killer has no control of game and needs something to apply pressure. 
But giving survivors something other than gens to do is sounds like way too drastic. In the end it's all up to how gud the players r and knowledgable 

You clearly haven't been playing the game for very long. Everyone agrees doing generators is boring, and if you'd bothered to read the OP, you'd see that they don't want to punish Survivors for doing the only objective available to them.

Survivors need additional objectives. Everyone agrees on that, but devs haven´t commented any ideas or possible changes.

The gen rush is a big problem bacause, the first second you spawn in the game what do you do ? run to the gen and work on it.
Back in the old days 2016-2017 ppl werent rushing gens so hard, they were saboing, cleansing totems, trying to find who the killer is.
Right now all you need to do is work on gens at every single point in the game unless
1. Being chased by the killer
2. Going for saves
Otherwise just rush the gens super boring tactic unless devs add another main objective they will never manage to remove this problem.

There have been endless suggestions, mainly revolving around new mechanics and buffing Killers, but the devs have stuck to their roadmap, so we'll just have to wait and see. I even made a thread showing why chases are too long, but some people became confused by it.

Yeah sometimes, both as killer and survivor, I wonder if people are really having fun. I mean, escaping after 5 minutes without encountering a single time the killer and ending with 10k is not exactly the ideal match for me. It sometimes reaches a point where I need to not do gens to slow the game a bit and make it more enjoyable for everyone.

Apparantly that AMAZING thing they announced few weeks back that will help with game times on right rank is... increasing healing time by 4 seconds, making slugging near impossible and make destroying hook way easier then it is.
Usual "fix" that doesn't address the main issue but fixes something next to it instead.
Like with DS, rework of it is postponed few months already BUT they found enough time to fix the issue that caused survivor to lose DS if they hit the skillcheck after killer already started hooking them.

@Master said:

@iceman2kx said:
Before the survivors get all salty at the title, let me state this isn't the typical "wah they finished the gens before I could kill them" QQ. So first, let's address what I am referring to when I say "gen rushing" before we hear the typical, "there is no such thing" argument. Gen rushing is when survivors push generators hard from the beginning of the match and multiple gens are completed within a few minutes. This can be caused by the killer lacking pressure on the map or survivors ignoring everything in order to push the gens. As a killer, when I see 3 gens popped in a few minutes, I get a little frustrated and I think, "wow". As a survivor I think, "okay this is good, but I'll get worthless pips and no points." This is one of the reasons I don't particularly care to play survivor often. What fun is pressing M1 on a generator the entire match?

Is anyone really wrong for doing this? No, I don't believe so. Survivors are just doing their objective and killers may just be getting looped or inexperienced at patrolling gens. I think what it boils down to is survivors have gotten so good and adapted to this game over the years, it has revealed a huge flaw in this game. It needs to be fixed.

So what is there to do about it right now? Killers have a few perks that can sort of help with this. At best, these perks are like an off brand bandaid and they only benefit the killer. Survivors can stop doing their only objective and purposely run the killer around for chase points, but why on earth would they do that?

There have been some creative solutions mentioned over the past couple months I have played. My favorite is adding more objectives in the game or even different game modes. Unique quest can be added in the map that upon completion, could reward the same benefit as escaping would (BPs/pips) and you could even escape after escaping for an even larger bonus. This is just an example of what can be done and my own personal input.

So, I'd like to finish off my QQ with one last thought. This last game I played. Let me say, the survivors did really well. They were very sneaky, pushed gens quick. As far as doing their objective goes, they almost finished the last gen and were potentially very close to escape.

Unfortunately for them, they made a few minor mistakes that I was able to capitalize on. The point of me posting this pic is to point out that they did do well in hiding from the killer and finishing gens. In my opinion, they were not rewarded enough and this is one of the big problems of gen rushing. It's generally a bad game for everyone, not fun and no one gets points.

Thoughts?

Genrushing is not a thing in the realm where the devs balance the game. Survivors are actually scared in this realm and will move away from gens when they hear heartbeat, they wont stay untli the last second just to zoom away with their sprinburst. Also skillchecks will be failed such that the killer can hinder their progress too.

Loved the old days of DBD, had so much fun with my friends even if we got totally screwed. Nowadays its just a shitshow

That is a very specific situation and not everyone reacts like that

HookedonDemand said:

The whole gen rushing thing confuses me. Isn't finishing the gens literally the only thing survivors need to do to escape ? Why would they wait, to take in the scenery ? It's like complaining that the killer starts killing right away...

I'd honestly love secondary objectives to slow the game down. It adds a bit more game play and opens new doors into how certain items and perks can be tweaked.

@thesuicidefox said:
If there was just a limit on how fast a gen could be finished that would solve some problems. Right now the issues are toolboxes and the ability for survivors to gang up on a gen. If you have 4 survivors with toolboxes on a gen it will be done in like 20 seconds. That shouldn't happen. Besides the fact the bonuses from this stuff should be toned down, there should be an upper limit to the speed a gen can be repaired, no matter how many survivors or toolboxes you use. That limit should be something like 50 seconds. Luck already works the same way, in that if a whole team used UTA with salty lips they should get >60% luck but the max is 48%.

Obviously BNP might need another rework, which all BNP should do is make great skill checks zone huge, almost unmissable, but at the cost of using the toolbox faster. Then it would be a sort of hard counter to Ruin, but not so ridiculously powerful that it just breaks the game.

In a vast majority of spawns, generators cannot be worked on by 4 survivors at once. In most instances, the generator is blocked on one or two sides (and rarely 3 sides). I think only the Coldwind Farm maps provide generators that can be worked on by 4 survivors at once. I am sure there are others, but I can't think of them immediately. Perhaps alter the gen spawns so that each generator is guaranteed to have at least one side blocked? Increase the chances for 2 and 3 sides to be blocked?

@Orion said:

@Global said:

@Orion said:
There have been endless suggestions, mainly revolving around new mechanics and buffing Killers, but the devs have stuck to their roadmap, so we'll just have to wait and see. I even made a thread showing why chases are too long, but some people became confused by it.

you still have a link to that thread m8 id like to read it.

Sure. https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/15406/feedback-m1-killers-are-too-slow

I dont understand what is so hard to understand about it xD just sounds like survivors trying to over complicate the fact they always have the advantage no matter what perks are chosen in the end. thanks for the link btw bb.

@Orion said:

@Global said:

@Orion said:

@Global said:

@Orion said:
There have been endless suggestions, mainly revolving around new mechanics and buffing Killers, but the devs have stuck to their roadmap, so we'll just have to wait and see. I even made a thread showing why chases are too long, but some people became confused by it.

you still have a link to that thread m8 id like to read it.

Sure. https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/15406/feedback-m1-killers-are-too-slow

I dont understand what is so hard to understand about it xD just sounds like survivors trying to over complicate the fact they always have the advantage no matter what perks are chosen in the end. thanks for the link btw bb.

@Lockheart said:
PPS: Sorry to post so much at once. Things I just keep forgetting to add.

OP. You call it an experiment and yet refuse to account for every variable except for those closed within youe tiny confines of a scenario... But an experiment, by definition, is to control specific variables so that you can then test the many other variables that vary. Cause, you know, variables are things that are able to vary... It's in the name. Come on, I know you can do type type and the write write so surely you must understand the words you're using.

You did not use mathematics to confirm anything. You calculated the travel time between two objects moving at different speeds. Then that suited the role of confirmation bias all too well.

Just like I did above, I can put your same variables in a different linear of one survivor after another and you have three easy hooks in the time only a single gen is popped.

Apparently, the fact that I didn't take into consideration the hundreds of variables that make the game more Survivor-sided was somehow relevant to my "best case-scenario for the Killer is still bad for them" point. And here I thought that when someone showed the best case-scenario for one side was bad, it was proof that that side needed a buff. Go figure.

No the fact that you chose a scenario that fit your preconceived outcome was the issue.

You were shown different things that could be taken into account such as grabbing someone off a gen and getting an easy hook. It happens even at rank 1 because either the killer was super sneaky or the survivor was to engrossed. You chose to only use what best fit your narrative.