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When are SWF on comms going to be balanced?
For BHVR to have no negative to being in a SWF is crazy, then add onto that they play with communications which they have to accept as they can't obviously detect comms makes it beyond crazy.
BHVR's attitude to this in the past was to ignore it and not show the killer or other survivors if they had played an SWF, when starting to play this game I didn't have a clue why I thrashed one team then not another when skill level didn't appear to be the problem.
Now I'm a red rank killer (before the recent Wraith nerf/bug) and understand why but nothing incetivies the killers to play SWFs (mainly on comms).
BHVR appears to be improving their game and would like to suggest two options when the killer plays SWFs, for them to either take an improved BP or for the developing killers a slow down (like thana) imposed only on the SWF players.
I like the idea of SWF by talking with your friends and it shouldn't be taken away but it is at the expense of the killers fun / tryhard sweat and tears. Now I enjoy a challenge facing the SWFs but this can have a negative effect on up and coming players.
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I said it in another thread but these things get buried so quickly that I'm just gonna repeat it...
The issue is there are two kinds of SWF groups
- The group of friends who want to play together
- The SWAT Team
Group 1 is great to play with. They're fun; they get to have a good time with their friends while I as the killer get to go through my normal Killer Duties and stab people
Group 2 is the problem. While this may be anecdotal evidence, I have found that the SWAT Team is usually not only damn impossible to beat since they are in constant communication with each other but they're always the biggest toxic ######### to play again. If there is a cheap tactic, they'll use it and if they get any chance at all to mock the killer, they will 1000% take it.
The biggest issue that Group 2 causes though is that these are the groups killers remember and these are the groups that make killers quit the game because they're not only frustrating to play from a game-play standpoint, they always seem to make sure to rub it in your face and make the experience as awful as humanly possible.
The problem is that I don't know how you could solve Group 2 without directly hurting Group 1. If Group 1 starts getting hammered and frustrated by nerfs, they're gonna quit and now you just lost four players from your player pool. If you just ignore Group 2 though, Killers are eventually just going to say "F*#$ this S$1* I'm out" and now no one has anyone to play against as your Killer pool Yeets out.
I do not envy the position that the DBD team is in here
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Never
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The answer is simple: balance the game around top level play
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Firstly thank you so much for a fair and honest opinion @tippy2k2 and agree with a lot of what you have said.
As a quick sum this might look like :
SWAT team survivors>Friends survivors>Solo survivors
The gap between solo and comms can never really be bridged unless comms introduced into the game but then that opens up langauge barriers and forms of abuse.
The gap between SWAT and just Friends playing survivor can be looked at as not playing as optimally.
At the moment the wait times are due to the number of killers and every player should be playing killer 1 in 5 games but most don't. I don't think i'll ever get bored of playing survivor but the feeling of being helpless against a SWAT comms team is a terrible experience most players don't ever wish to face again.
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First step has to be balancing SWFs to work out the top level players
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What does that mean?
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Actually, voice comms is not the main problem, because friendly SWF has it as well. The thing with SWAT SWF groups it's coordination. So even without voice comms you won't get to "hurt" them. Being honest, it hurts the game when there is a youtuber or twitch user, showing a video on how they bully a killer, then solo players and SWAT SWF say "that's funny, I want to try it", wich is a way to spread the toxicity. It doesn't help that BHVR calls "tech" to something like the "window tech" wich is an exploit, of course it's hard to fix it so they'ld just "ignore" it than focus on fixing it (and since a lot of survivors use this "tech" and have fun with it, it's another reason to not looking into it) , the same happended with infinites when they said "it takes skill" because the player base is composed about more survivors than killers, so ok they had fun with it, but with all the updates, a lot of the killer player base actually fulfilled what they said and they quit the game, wich is not good for the game so they needed to take action.
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I could be a top level survivor, give me Comms and I improve, give me coordination of who what when where and I'm almost unbeatable.
Comms isn't balanced so ranks SWFs higher.
It isn't fair on solo survivors or killers when the game isn't balanced
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Friendly or SWAT, comms give an unbalanced advantage
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A lot of people disagree with me in this but I honestly think the game should somewhat balance itself out with swf and add an in-game comm...since a high % of people play swf or make friends like I did in-game and become a swf. I used to be solo but I made survivor friends and now have a few groups I go in with. I rarely solo anymore granted we don't use comms much. Just build our perks around each other.
My.other idea was just to flat out give killers more BP vs swf. X however many Y add a multiplier.
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As someone who played solo for almost my entire time playing DBD, playing SWF w/ 3 or more players is OP and not fair to the killer or any solo survivors in the match. A 4 man is even worse. We rarely get 4K'd even by a rank one killer.
It really needs to be its own mode (Solos/Duos/Quads) as there is no way to balance it out with solo players unless communication added. It also jams up the queues trying to fill out those numbers.
I can play either way and while I really enjoy playing with friends now, most killers cannot handle this yet and need time to learn the game.
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The problem is that in a 4v1 one game the 4 strenghts should come through coordination and teamwork. When you get those 4 man swf death squads it really shows the power of communication and teamwork. the 1, or the killer in this case is suppose to be a lot stronger than any of the survivors individually. That's pretty debatable. Survivors can loop killers for several minutes given the right set up, and the killer can't really do a whole lot except just leave them. They don't want to buff the power the killer has in a 1v1 because that hurts solo survivors and BHVR cares more about survivors than killers anyways.
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Just played a daily and had a 3 SWF, injuried them all so they went off to a corner and healed each other.. How do you play against that?
Slow down the healing for numbers of SWFs.
One even found the random and summoned another group heal.
I'm lucky to get healed by anyone when I play solo
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Communication is way overrated. All you have to do is have game knowledge to be as good as a SWF team. People don't run strats in DBD like some people around here think. Coms is mostly used to make fun of the killer they're facing. Any group of solo players can play the same way as a SWF team. It's just about getting matched with top tier survivors that know when to do things and when not to do things. It's really not a hard game. Anyone thinking that this game has communications like CS:GO is kinda silly. You don't need to talk to own a killer. It's already easy.
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I disagree, I watched a chilled group of friends playing SWF and it not only negates certain perks but adds others not even in the game.
I understand it is fun, but as soon as you hit rank 10 as killer you seem to suddenly get red rank survivors in x number SWF groups constantly.
The game simply isn't balanced for players on communications
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But what about DBD requires communication? You can just be an aware player and be as effective as a solo survivors as a SWF team.
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I play against sweaty Red teams all the time and I personally think people give them too much credit.
Yes of course it’s true that good ones DO exist, but at the same time it’s not every SWF team that wins the game, it is the most efficient team that does.
Information does not mean you are a good player. Knowing where the killer is and relaying that information doesn’t mean you are going to win. There are more variables to it than that.
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If communication were an extra perk (which in all honesty it is far more than that) then of course it doesn't give a win but it does give an unfair advantage when compared to the poor solo random survivor without this perk, hence a balance is needed for it to be fair
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never! you go on swf with my husband! lol
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As soon as two killers per game get their own channel
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I agree worh the fact that a poor SWF group MAY not win. But an organized, even decent group with comms makes the game so entirely tilted that the killer is basically running blind and has zero chance.
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Not to mention, being a solo survivor playing with an SWF group, they basically don’t give a damn about you
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To beat an SWF, one must get inside the minds of an SWF.
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I swear it's like people don't know there are already 110 discussions on ds and swf teams. It's like everyone needs to create their discussion on it.
People just need to understand a few things when it comes to swf teams. Not every swf team is this toxic t-bagging at every pallet or clicking the flashlight at the killer. The same way every killer isn't a tunneller or a camper. I personally love talking so I wouldn't play this game if I wasn't playing with a mate of mine.
Just think logically about this. If I went to play the game later what would I do?
- Play Solo - Chance my luck that my team is good and they aren't all running self care and urban.
- Play SWF - Guaranteed good players who know how to loop and I can actually rely on if I need help.
I also hate this idea that swf teams don't care about their randoms. If we can save them then we will. Unfortunately if they aren't a good player and they are actually a hindrance to the team then I'll not prioritise helping them over the others.
How about another example. Since everyone loves to complain about these bully builds swf teams I'll give an example on that. If I'm killer and I know I'm facing a swf team, what would I rather face?
- Sweaty SWF - Using all the meta perks and beating me in 5 mins.
- Different Builds SWF - All running weird builds to try and have fun. Game will last probably 15-20 mins and I have a good chance of getting multiple hooks and kills.
Playing killer at red ranks against a team of solo players is generally a pretty easy win right now. I wouldn't be against giving killers more bp after the game if they face a swf but I don't want any debuff but on the swf team since only 5% of them are actually good. The killer shouldn't be told if he is facing a swf either since he'll change his build in response to the survivors.
Sorry if this looks like a slight rant but I'm just seeing constant ds/swf discussions and I'm finding it a bit boring.
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I find it boring too when a good SWF can just walk over me because the game is heavily slanted in their favor.
No one with a brain wants friends to stop playing together, we're just so ######### tired of having 2 different tiers of survivors (solo & SWF) with 1 having the chance to be waaaaaaay more problematic and game ruining. And I don't care if it's only "5%" of SWF groups that are toxic cancer, that is 5% more than needs to be happening and needs to be dealt with.
When you ignore the problems people are having near the top of the elo, eventually only the people who are abusing the broken ######### will stay and play that shitstorm of a game. Guess where DbD is?
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Correction to your statement, let's expand the categories:
- The group of friends who want to play together and are ... Potato
- The group of friends who want to play together and are ... OK
- The Swat Team (not so often)
First category happens very often. They are the most funny guys i face in Match, if i see they are very Potato and i can easy dominate them I let them complete usually 4 or 5 gen removing one surv after 2 gen, 1 gen, 2 gen and the last one close to the gate (last kill sometimes doesnt work but that's my philosophy if i face those teams). Noone is mad, usually, at the end of the match. They dont lose pip or at least they have safety pip.
I face Second category often. They are not incredible neither bad and you have a challenging match.
The third category. Noo, it doesnt happend so often. And when it happend i have complete silence in my room, i dont touch my caffe, i turn my cell phone off and i start the try hard mode. Challenges are the best thing in life. And they are in my opinion an interesting challenge. why to stop em to play together ? Everyone want challenges!
- PS1 - I propose too to remove Swat Team SWF, when Killers will stop to tunnel like no tomorrow (and a lof of them are so addicted about that in red ranks too...)
- PS2 - I play too more Killer than Surv
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The game is heavily slanted in their favour lol tell that to all the new players who we want to get into this game. Tell that to the many red ranks who are getting squashed by killer pretty easily. The only challenge killers actually have in this game, where they actually have to try is against a good team (usually that's a swf team). The game is forcing players to play swf because if they don't then they'll either die by a good killer or bad teammates.
Also I never said 5% are toxic. I said only 5% of swf teams are actually good. The rest are pretty meh and not really hard to beat either. Comms aren't the big issue, it's the fact that all 4 players are probably pretty good. Your saying that this 5% needs dealt with, what about the 75% of the player base who struggles against killer and expects a nerf? Your putting your "needs" ahead of the rest of the player base.
No ones ignoring the top of the game. If they were then map changes wouldn't have been made and killers like doctor wouldn't have been buffed. After keys and moris are nerfed the game will be in it's best place in years.
Unfortunately this game is extremely difficult to balance fully. Every nerf and buff has a big impact over the whole game. Sometimes people have to accept that if your not playing the best killer and your facing a team with over 1500 hours each then you'll probably be beat.
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Tell that to the many killers in red ranks who have to deal with sweaty toxic groups constantly. I'd like solos to be as strong as SWF and then balance around that going forward instead of having to worry about if solos are going to be ok with something or are the SWFs of the world going to be able to hardcore abuse it x4.
And the game is balanced around casuals, the devs have stated this is their balance philosophy. Yet, we still get changes that are only going to affect red ranks who only play a specific killer that is very rarely played anywhere else... hmmm.....
I'll agree with you though, this game is incredibly hard to balance and I definitely don't have all the answers so I can't expect the devs to be spot on 100% either. I love this game and just want it to be fun again that's why I'm so hard on it tbh.
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I play solo Survivor and I honestly hate swf on comms it can be really unfair the killer and I've had occasions when they've got super mad with me for not knowing what there plans are and even blaming me for them getting killed like I'm a telepath who should know what they are doing and talking about at all times
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What about the percentage of people who play killer who don't give a ######### about SWF in comms?
I honestly don't care if I go up against a team in comms and there are a lot of us out there who don't spend their time obsessing over SWF in their lobby. I'm just playing a game and I'm not going to start crying that people want to play it with their friends. Some groups are good, some are bad. I'm not going to pretend that I know which ones are SWF and which are solos I'm not going to waste my time looking at profiles to check their friend list before I consider readying up. I'm just going to play the game as I usually play it and not fixate on whether someone is talking to other players or not. You should try it, you will stop getting so bitter and twisted about people playing with their friends when you don't obsess over it.
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They should add coms to game and nerf survivor perks like unbreakable ds bt and mechanics like locker flaslight saving
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Also if they add coms to game they should remove all aura perks for survivors
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Or they should ban some perks for swf
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I just think that maybe swfs need to be able to take fewer perks into a game, excluding customs. Or maybe give killers a buff based on the swf
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1.1% reduction in all action speeds per SWF member for those members only:
2 members - 2.2% reduction each
3 members - 3.3% reduction each
4 members - 4.4% reduction each
They have to queue together, it can't be that hard to program and it wouldn't affect solo queuers all that much. Gens pop like mad as it is, anyway.
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"BHVR appears to be improving their game and would like to suggest two options when the killer plays SWFs, for them to either take an improved BP or for the developing killers a slow down (like thana) imposed only on the SWF players."
Taken from the original post, I think it mentions more BP for killers.
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You lost three injured survivors and somehow end up trying to nerf SWF healing speeds? lmao.
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This punishes solo players just as much as it punishes SWF, and it'll just make more solo' people wait to play with their friends because it's better to play with friends and a reduction than play solo and everyone else be slowed.
Nerfing speeds is not healthy for the game.
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I think a good change would be to have their generator repair speed cut by 3% for each person in the que.
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Please explain, eg how does it punish solo survivors
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You run the team mate, but you have to do it more because your SWF team mates are forced to do gens slower, it aint that hard to figure out, chief.
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Useful and insightful?
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Explain please?
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"nerf survivors healing speed because i can't even find 1 of 3 injured survivors", you don't want nerfs for balance, you want nerfs because you need more help in match.
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You've put in quotes something I said but haven't???
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It's essentially what you're saying, you lost three survivors and assumed you they went into a corner and healed each other and think that's grounds for nerfs because you struggled.
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You mean the solo has to run the killer more as SWFs are slower? Do you know why it has been suggested SWFs need to be slowed down?
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Bud you can't put in quotes something I never said then base your arguement on it.
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"Just played a daily and had a 3 SWF, injuried them all so they went off to a corner and healed each other.. How do you play against that?
Slow down the healing for numbers of SWFs."
So what you're saying is, you couldn't find a single survivor, they all healed, you couldn't find the fourth so the survivors healed themselves? Whats the difference between that and randoms healing each other? You didn't find them either way, you're assuming everything and trying to base nerfs on assumptions.
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