SWF
Im tired of hearing people complain about how SWF is toxic and OP and how they should remove it from the game. SWF is only OP and toxic if you make it that way. I enjoy playing with my friends. We don't go around t bagging and constantly clicking flashlights and bring them every game or abuse them or anything like that. (I know just because we don't, that other people don't) We just have communication. If they remove SWF do you think this game is gonna still thrive?? Ask yourself that. People will leave. The game isn't fun for me to play on my own and many people think the same. BTW this isn't mean't to be toxic I just wanted to share my opinion. Thanks.
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I'm more than fine with it, it's just very hard for many to cope with it due to that even if they play at their best, because survivors don't have to run certain perks aswell as they have communcation, they can survive.
Personally I'm more of a kyf kind of guy, as well as solo and killer.
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Yeah. I can see how it can be annoying for killers of course, especially with the toxic groups. But in my opinion if you can't kill a normal SWF group are you really that good?
I love playing KYF as well. It's chill and don't have to worry about rank. Lol
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I'm positive you and your friends just want a good time, but it doesn't apply to most of the swf.
Is SWF toxic(overall)? yes it is
Is SWF always toxic? no it isnt
Anyway my problem with it is that with comms surv have a huge advantage over the killer and over other surv as well if its not a 4 man swf.
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The majority of people don't want SWF removed; we just want it balanced so there isn't 2 different kinds of survivors (solo or SWF)
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If you're playing casually in swf then that's great, most people wouldn't find that annoying. Problem is most swf players go out of their way to be toxic. Glad you're not one of them, as we need less of it in the community.
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Yeah im not saying it isn't toxic it definitely is. What I meant to say is me and the people just wanting to have a good time shouldn't get punished for having SWF.
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Of course. I usually don't play with a 4 Man SWF anyway, mainly 2 or 3. I know a lot of SWF are toxic but I don't know how they would balance that
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The problem with swf is killers always blaming their mistakes on them. The reality is solo and swf aren't all that different and the excuses you try to make up to make yourself look prettier will always remain mere excuses.
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Alot of killers that do this also tend to watch Tru3, who, let's be honest, can't accept his own mistakes.
I've seen times where he has decided to focus on one survivor instead of pressuring another on a gen, and then to lose and blame it on swf.
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Ughhh. Im sorry but I really dislike true. When he plays survivor he blames his mistakes on his teammates. I just watched a video where he was looking for hex ruin (the new one) the whole game which isn't even worth it anymore. Just focus gens. And complained how no generators were getting done. And he had detectives hunch and still couldn't find it, he was on the game map and was downstairs and was still trying to look for it downstairs when he already saw 3 totems that weren't hex ruin. Like its literally upstairs is that not comment sense? He pisses me off. He just seems like an A- hole.
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I tried watching him once but was instantly turned away due to his accusatory nature.
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I would watch him every now and then but I quit watching him after that. His attitude is unnecessary.
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To be fair it's a clear minority that insists on laughable pipe dreams like the removal of SWF or outlawing of voice comms. They should be pitied if anything, it can't be nice to be doomed to forever scream fruitlessly into a void that never answers them.
I can imagine SWF indicators after matches as well as BP/XP bonuses for killers (and solo survivors, if you want to throw in some solo incentivization as well), but anything that goes "further" than that seem extremely unlikely to me.
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Thats the biggest problem imo.
Deal with swf without hurting everybody.
but i think it should have some sort of penality, discouraging abusers but something casuals wouldnt mind.
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For sure. Just tired of seeing people complaining about SWF constantly when there's nothing they can really do about it.
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I would rather have the playerbase number plummet ifbit ment no more swf. I can take long wait times if it ment games were fair. If you cant play without cheat on comms and would quit if they removed it then bye the ga.e would be better off without you.
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Communication isn't cheating. If you can't kill a normal SWF group just trying to have fun then get better at the game.
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SWF isn't the complete issue, since most SWF teams are way too altruistic and usually cuck themselves by taking too many hits early on.
Biggest problem with SWF is the super toxic minority that do nothing but ruin games. Unless t bagging and flashlight click spamming become punishable offenses, SWF will always be a problem for anyone. Especially now where as killer you are literally stuck in the game because of the penalty with no way out, ruining their experience.
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That's not cheating, and it's the key to some peoples enjoyment.
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I know. Im not saying SWF isn't toxic at all, it is. Just wish people would quit complaining because there isn't much we can do about it. Not all SWF is toxic.
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SWF isn't necessarily the problem. the problem is: survivors are the power role. if you get 4 solos that play well you will suffer. if you get a 4 man swf full of potatoes, you will destroy them like a bunch of blendettes. survivors will most of the time decide if the game is going to be easy, not the killer's skill by itself.
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watching Tru3 has nothing too do with SWF lol.
If you don't like the dude or his content fine, but keep it too a post that's relevant too. Because you could literally replace tru3's name with anyone and it wouldn't change it.
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The game wasn't made with comms in mind. The devs maybe to scared to call it cheating because they don't want to piss off survivors but it is cheating. Its an unfair advantage that the gane isn't balanced for its literary bringing a gun to a knife fight.
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I Don't mind swf... but the problem is most swf you find nowadays outta boredom or streaming just play to give the killer a bad game.
Here are some SWF groups to watch out for
The All for One- the swf that likes to pick 4 bills or nea or megs or clauds.. wearing the same outfits
The Lightmares- 4 flashlights. From killer to Butterfingers.
The Grab Azzes- you picked someone up and all of a sudden have a tail, 3 people long! They are ready to give up their lives to bodyblock that hook.
The Four Amigatos- that swf comm try hard that just sucks and dies 3 mins into the match.
And everyone's least fave...
The Swat With Friends- You can't really tell till match starts but you know somethings odd... "somethings not right... its quite... too quite.. maybe if I...
*3gens done* "#########...."
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If the devs implement some tradeoff for the huge amount of information SWF provides, it could be balanced. They don't want to do that tho.
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To killers it effects their mentality.
When your average player sees supposedly one of the best killers complain about swf, is that what your going to complain about when you lose too? Most likely.
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I hate it too mate. Just think to yourslef why people play in a swf. Maybe when you play solo survivor at red ranks and see how bad some of them are then you'll understand why I want to play with actual good players. I played solo on sunday and I won't ever again lol imagine getting hooked, then seeing the other 3 survivors using urban evasion on the other side of the rotten fields map.
People assume you play swf so you can share information about where the killer is or totem locations. Yes that helps but people really play swf because it's the only way to guarantee good teammates.
Then they'll complain about bully swf teams for all running a sabo builds or everyone uses head-on. Well we find it more fun running builds like that than gen rush you using DS, Unbreakable and Dead Hard.
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The devs will never remove SWF so I wouldn’t even worry about it. People can stamp their feet about eeeevil SWF all they want, it won’t make a difference.
I personally dislike most SWFs because they’re toxic to killers and solo survivors alike. Doesn’t mean they should be removed from the game though.
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No one is saying communication is cheating its just a huge advantage you have over the killer. Imagine playing league of legends or counter strike and only 1 team get to communicate.
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Thats the whole point. Not all killers are that good to keep up with swf, but they dont have any option to not play against them. They just get rolled over. Its simply not fair. Killers should have matches at their skill leveln, as well as survivors. But communication breaks the balance.
So either killers are balanced to cope with swf, which means solo suffers, or they are balanced for solos, to they lost the moment they meet a decent swf. Right now, they are kind of in the middle, which is why every one is crying. To good for avarage solos, but still being able to lose to good solos, and good enough to handle bad swf, but chanceless against good ones.
Thats simply no balance.
There are two ways to balance it, i belive (other than powering solos to swf and then balance around that, because so far it didnt happen, mostly, because those changes have to happen all at once, otherwise part of the community will leave).
Make a seperate swf lobby, where you have a different powerbalance than in an all-solo-lobby. Yes, swf cry about that noone want to play against them, but i think that is not true if it is balanced around the swf. What they really dont want is that its balanced, because they lose their advantage and would not dominate the game by default.
The other option is still in the game: kyf. Just bring your own killer. That would at least reduce the toxicity, if the survivor know if the killer walk they dont have a game anymore.
Just forcing killers into an unfair playmode without choice is just frustrating.
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Umm, no. All you are doing is trying too get a hate train started because you don't like the dude. Watching Tru3 and being upset about SWF has nothing too do with each other. Plus Tru3 isn't even a killer main, he plays both sides equally. Sorry mate but they have nothing in common lol.
You don't have too like Tru3, but don't make up lies too try and insult him, criticize him for his actual mistakes, otherwise you just look silly and makes your arguments invalid.
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It does have a lot to do with each other though. Tru3 is a popular streamer who constantly accuses everyone of being SWF whenever a game isn’t easy for him...and lately I’ve even heard stretch screen accusations too lol. You don’t think that attitude rubs off on his fans? It certainly does. I only put him on sometimes to see the ridiculousness of the chat. They all mimic him. Tell me how often you hear other well known killers like Scott or Zubat constantly crying SWF like Tru3 does? It’s like night and day watching other people, because the guy has a god complex when it comes to this game. The guy even insults viewer request builds, people who PAID him money, because his ego can’t handle possibly losing...so he has to try to save face and by going on and on bashing the build. Talk about ungrateful. And come on, just because he plays survivor on his stream, you can’t ignore the fact that he’s extremely biased towards the killer side. That is very obviously his preferred role. He still classifies as a killer main to me.
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Like Tru3 I play both sides, and I did like him when I started. Then I got to Red ranks as killer, and although he's a much better player than me, I started disagreeing with his mentality. Whenever he loses as a killer, the sole reason was swf. He has occasionally says otherwise, but rarely.
Also I'm not making this up, and alot of people agree with me. He can take a loss as a survivor, but as a killer it's a rare occurrence.
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The thing is indeed, it has quite a lot to do with tru3. I respect his attitude in some cases, because he is one of the players who tries that the other side will have fun (even tho, sometimes I think that this is getting some losses for him when he decides not to slug, because he does not like it, for example).
However, it cannot be denied that he is a reason why the community is how it currently is. Not so much like another Content Creator who I dont want to mention here, but still, tru3s mentality has brought a lot of bad things to this community, because he is quite vocal. Just look at his chat, the words "toxic" and "SWF" are constantly used together when none of the Survivors is doing anything wrong.
Besides that, tru3 gets an average of 3 Kills per game, despite him complaining all the time.
Other, more neutral Content Creators like Scott or Tofu are not that way and STILL do good as Killer. Because it is simply a fact that being in an SWF does not make someone a good player.
(And not to forget, tru3 covers his bias by using the "I play both sides"-argument, when all you have to do is listen what he is talking about to see that he is biased)
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Not every killer watches Tru3 lol. So again, correlation is not causation. If you don't like tru3 then that's fine, but he has nothing too do with how people view SWF. Stop making things up too try and hate train the dude. go too reddit and make a post about Tru3 if you want, I don't care, but don't make up random things that have nothing too do with each other simply because you don't like the dude lol.
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So as I told @Karl_Childers correlation is not caustation. Don't use your feelings for the dude justify randomness that has nothing too do with him. Not every killer watches or likes Tru3, Even I feel he gets way too egotistical at times and he complains too much about viewer builds, but what he does has nothing too do with SWF or how people view it. This is like the "video games cause violence" argument: it's baseless and is all about feelings over facts lol.
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That has nothing too do with SWF though lol. There are many killers who don't watch or like Tru3 and still feel that SWF is an issue. Correlation is not causation. Feelings aren't facts my friends, don't make statements without them.
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I too feel swf is an issue, and I agree with him. My problem is, he makes mistakes, very obvious ones, but proceeds to look past those mistakes.
Like you stated however, feelings are far from facts.
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Im fine with SWFstaying in the game. The developers need to address the fact that there is a large groups of players playing in SWF and balance the game accordingly though. For starters, I dont think the burst of speed survivors get after their first hit should be as big as it is. Ive noticed that a new play style is emerging where SWF teams are literally running in a straight line, holding W as far as possible away from gens and making the chase take as long as possible, not by looping or skill, but just by how long it takes for the killer to catch up. Then while this chase is being done their teammates will jump on the gen they were just on and finish it by the time the chase is ended and survivor hooked. Now, with the way that the game is now, if you arent gonna be a tunneling little bit**, then you are going to need at the least 9-10 hooks to end the game, probably 8 at the least. Do the math. If every SWF starts playing this way it is going to be very very hard to get 3k or 4 k as killer. If you have to run a perk (save the best for last) just to balance the game, then there is a problem. The devs need to balance the game as if there are SWF's. Right now they are just ignoring the elephant in the room that they are. Like I said, I dont mind SWF's, and I play killer probably 80% of the time. I also almost only play solo que too so I know the pain that is solo que. There just needs to be more recognition by behavior in how much they are really being used. I will check when i think it was a SWF and am almost always right when I think it is. Its not hard to pick out.
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ive made a post in the past about a mechanic i think could help level out comms. Let me find it and post it here to see what you guys think.
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ok, here was my post last summer about a mechanic i was thinking would work....
What would you think if comms were proximity based? This could be something where when talking near the killer the killer could get a notification. It would be a way to actually balance comms and talking too much could be detrimental. There could be comm based perks, but that wouldn't be essential. Still though, think of all of the possibilities...further range, closer proximity for the killer to get notification, etc.. Use your imagination. Like i said though the perk idea wouldn't be essential. Most of the blow back I've heard about why this would be a bad idea is based around it being an easy way to bully the killer or other players. The simple solution to that would be an option to turn it off as survivor and play as is now if those problems occur when playing survivor. When playing as killer there could be just a simple notification when people are on comms and within a pre-determined proximity to you. This is something I think the devs would be able to work out to find the best balance. Then there would be no need to worry about bullying killer, as killer can already be bullied in the same ways using notifications and other interactions that are already in the game and the comms idea would add no new interactions outside of the notifications and how they are already in game.
Another knock against this idea is that "people would just play comms the same way they do now." which is a possibility I don't deny. If the game had no way of muting the mic when one was connected to the game system it would also solve this. So, if you are playing DBD and have your mic on, you would be subject to this, even if you were also using a third party comm software. People would essentially have to have a comm system not connected to the console or PC to get away with it and that would deter that type of thing. If using a 3rd party comm system, yes, they would have unlimited range, but the killer would still get a notification when near someone speaking into their mic. That wouldn't change, and there is a way to do that. It would be a little more powerful for survivors using current comms then the idea I'm posing, but that is already available and having a notification for killer WOULD add more balance anyway you look at it.
I just ask you to think about this, and please behaviour, do the same. The idea may need some tweaks, Im not suggesting it is perfect. There is a ton of potential for growth with this though... including: ideas for perks, ideas for killer types (adds a whole new dimension on how new killers could be designed and I have some great ideas here for licensed killers using this), more balance, more fun.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I am sorry if it is long winded, but it is something I have been thinking about for a while and I wanted to hear what others thought about it. Please, I ask you, when playing as either killer or survivor, think of the possibilities of something like this and how it could add to the enjoyment of your game play while also thinking of possible applicable areas it could be used and post them to this thread. I would appreciate hearing all of your ideas. If you have problems that would occur with this, also post them. There are no bad discussions on this.
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the way that phasmophobia game works would be similar to how this would work. There is no way of turning off your mic when in game, so you would literally have to turn your mic off completely which would nullify the problem with comms in the first place if you were using discord or whatever app you like, there would be no way of avoiding DBD also picking it up, similar to how phasmophobia works..
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SWF its OP SWF legal cheat because SWF can coordinate and use voice
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I think the issue is that there's such a large gap between a even a 2-3 person swf and team of solos. All they need to do is buff solos with info SWFs would have, like basekit Kindred, and then buff killers accordingly.
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Want to play with friends - don't use voice comms which are cheating in means of the game or play KYF where you don't ruin the game for random people because you wanted to have fun.
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Not all SWF are toxic. Me and my friends when we play together love to meme each other especially when we're getting chased. We love making it our goals to get the other ones caught, I'm not sure if the killer found that toxic but we usually have fun
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Yeah but wouldn't killers just 4k 90% of the time?
That has been my experience at red rank solo.
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SWF if fine if you give killers 8 perks aswell much like swf communication. Where extra perks are in place due to their communication.
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Swf is fine I just played two and was making them sweat with Trapper and Clown. If you're good killer who can down quick Swf isn't a problem
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I like the idea, but that would hurt the solo survivor a lot that just happened to get teamed up with a 2 man or 3 man SWF.
I would take your idea but reverse it. Any survivor in a 2 man SWF only get to bring 3 perks each (solos still get 4)
3 man SWF brings 2 perks each.
4 man gets 1 each.
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