How bad is Legion really?
I want to preface this saying that I do not believe he is as terrible as people paint him out to be. Not that he's flawless, but I do think he does have potential still. Being able to constantly juggle survivors with Feral Frenzy is amazing. Many survivors will stop to mend if they see you run away but you can fake that and catch them off guard. There aren't many killers that can keep survivors on their toes like Legion can. But I also feel like his power is unnecessarily punishing at times. Missing ONE hit and losing your whole power, and being stunned for 4 seconds is far too much for a non-lethal attack. I'd say that having it the power gauge go down by a small portion would be much better for gameplay and considering that auto-aim can mess you up pretty bad sometimes. The stun as well takes away a lot from his potential, 4 seconds is way too much time for a survivor to react and run away from somebody who's suppose to be fast. Maybe 2.5 seconds would be appropriate? I would also like to see his old terror radius mechanics come back. 24m when out of frenzy and 32 when in frenzy. He could live without it, but I really enjoyed that as it spiced things up a little. Another thing I'd like to see make a come-back is on-hit status effects i.e Sloppy Butcher on frenzy hits. It was a really big plus for playing him and seeing it removed was kind of depressing.
What tweaks would you make to Legion?
Also would you re-work him and if so, how?
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People will understand during this Rift that Legion isnt as bad as forum killer mains wanna make him look like.
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I literally pointed out all the issues in a thread about 2 days ago.
Legion is overall fine, but the community bases power as ease of a 4k and with Feral Frenzy the way it is, an essentially NON-Lethal power, it's harder to secure kills but super easy to rank up.
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Legion is a very hit-or-miss killer. On games where survivors cant stop grouping up and working on gens, he dominates. When survivors split up and work individual gens, it can be tough to get enough pressure going with him. I've heard him referred to as the worst killer in the game (I'm looking your way Clown...), but his success mostly depends on the survivors you play against.
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I think he's bad because of one simple reason: his power is always punishing to use.
Doesn't matter if you hit all the survivors during a single Feral Frenzy, you will be stunned.
Doesn't matter if you deactivated the power early to conserve it, you will be stunned.
Doesn't matter if you missed a survivor who already had Deep Wound on purpose (to avoid cancelling your power), you will be stunned.
In short, it doesn't matter how well (or poorly) you do, you will be stunned, always, for trying to use your power, even in the way that it was intended to be used.
And for what? Running and vaulting faster, vaulting pallets, and never being able to down survivors? It's fun, but it's not worth being stunned every single time you use the power. Compare it to Nurse, who also stuns you when you use her power, but her power is actually threatening (when it's not bugged).
Being stunned every single time you use your power, with no way to avoid it no matter how well you play, and with so few benefits, is pretty bad, IMO. At the very least, I'd decrease the stun depending on how many survivors have been hit, possibly eliminate it altogether if the player somehow managed to hit all four survivors or if they cancelled the power early. Reward clever use of the power.
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As Legion main he’s a great killer, for me he’s A tier.
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100% this. The survivors decide if you will dominate with Legion. I use Thana and if I can get 2 or 3 hits with every Frenzy I can extend the game long enough to win. If I can't get the hits its a quick escape for most.
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You lose your ability to down Survivors. You are forced to eat the longest Killer power-induced stun in the entire game. You lose the ability to see blood and scratch marks. You have the second longest base cooldown in the game. Your power is the only one in the game that does not assist you in any way in securing a down aside from that free first hit which is balanced out by the 4-second fatigue and doesn’t really help at all against good Survivors. When you really get down to it, this makes you the only Killer in the game who literally has no choice but to go pure, undiluted M1 to secure a down. Your power is the only power in the game that has the capability to punish you for hitting a Survivor.
All this for the ability to M1 slightly harder than normal for 10 seconds and unlock a chain-hitting ability that is countered into oblivion by Survivors just not packing together like they're on a Japanese subway.
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He isn't as bad as most killer mains will say on the forums. I main Legion and I consistently 4k at rank 1 even against good survivors.
People see his power is non-lethal and they immediately shrug him off as garbage but forget that he's a short killer that moves at normal speed. This allows for some massive mind-game potential where it otherwise wouldn't work because of the Killers height. Couple this with a free first hit and you will be downing people really fast (at least from my experience). Basically, to be good with Legion, you need to be good at mind-games. It's that second hit that counts the most.
He only needs a few changes and he would easily be a mid-tier killer. (im just going to copy-paste what I wrote in another thread)
- Increased Feral Frenzy movement speed. It's actually insane how Survivors can OUT RUN YOU.
- Decreased fatigue duration from 4 second to 3. Cold Dirt, Joey's Mix tape, and Julie's Mix tape changed to do something else.
- Scratch marks in Feral Frenzy.
- Franks Mix tape & Stab Wounds Study changed.
- Deep Wounds timer reduced to something like 15 seconds. So Survivors feel more pressured to mend.
- Reduced punishment for missed Feral Frenzy attacks. Jeez, If I had a dime every time I missed a Feral Frenzy attack due to "aim dressing".
- Give The Legion collision while vaulting.
- Pin add-ons need to apply to ALL Feral Frenzy attacks.
- Feral Frenzy needs to recharge at the beginning of fatigue instead of after.
- Friendship Bracelet, Never-sleep Pills, and Susie's Mix tape changed to do something more useful.
- Generator auras need to not disappear after the first Feral Frenzy attack. This would help out Fuming Mix tape.
The list does seems like a lot, but most of it is just QoL.
However, I do agree that Legion doesn't get rewarded enough for clever usage of his power.
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I am a rank 1 legion, I always get 3k or 4k, using spiritual fury and enduring, I always do the pallet bait, its power I use it more to ensure the first hit and locate others I am looking for
ah, susie best waifu :v
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Personally I think Legion is a decent killer, the main problem with him for me is landing his hits while in frenzy. However if you combine thanatophobia with Nurse's calling, I'd say you might have a chance at getting a 4k, but its still probable. I say he's pretty decent, it just he needs some help.
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Yeah, i started playing him myself, hes fun but i think the penalties fir missing are a tad too intense. Kinda perk dependent but hes not the worst killer
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How well he does depends on survivors.
Legion excels at stalling the game and survivors that let themselves get stalled (grouping up, looking for each other to heal, can't Dodge or delay FF) will lose the match. Those that can work through it have it much easier. How well Legion does is more about how skilled the survivors are rather than how skilled you are.
There was a user who did statistics on well each killer did based on his experience as a survivor and Legion had mostly 4k's and 1k's
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I really really like Legion. Their playstyle is unique. Also they're like... the only Killer with a non setup 1v4 power which I love. Also the speed and quick vaulting pallets and windows is really fun.
Now, would I rework them? No... with a caveat. I love their play style and would not want to lose it. However, Legion's play style in game doesn't really fit any part of their lore. Just off their game play, you would have no idea that they are actually a gang of 4 of them.
A bit ago, I got an idea for a rework that puts 2 of the Legion members in the Trial at the same time. They both move at 110% and the power is that the Killer can instantly swap between which one is under their control (assuming they aren't mid animation) and the other keeps moving the way they were moving when the Killer's PoV swapped to the other one. I'd love to see that in the game, but wouldn't want to lose current Legion for it.
Though if they wanted to go super crazy with it... all 4 in the trial, and they're all 105%... maybe even 100% and the uncontrolled ones don't have a red stain or a knife out and just look like survivors. Though if they did that, they'd have to make it so the uncontrolled Legions didn't have collision. Otherwise that Legion could body block everything for days.
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I’m prestiging Legion for the rift. I find his power to be an inconvenience and experienced survivors can use Feral Frenzy against you. I’ve stabbed a player, then that player body blocked a doorway to allow the others to escape.
Not being able to see scratch marks is a humongous penalty while attempting the first hit. Movement speed is nullified by stun time.
I will keep playing until P3-50 and maybe my opinion will change by then but my feeling is they are in a bad place and deserving of the low ranking.
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I have mained Legion for quite some time now. The win condition for Legion is pretty simple, if the Survivors heal when they get hit by FF, you usually win. If they don't, you usually lose. This generally equates to Legion dominating up until Purple or Red Ranks, where he can be little more than a joke to experienced players.
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Legion is severely underrated, I agree. Still not a top tier killer, but definitely not trash like alot of people claim.
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Completely mediocre. Good survivors will toy with them. Not as bad as Clown, but they're bad.
From a survivor perspective, Legion is awful to play against. Deep wound is an annoying mechanic and Legion can apply it constantly. You pretty much stop and wait for them to hit you with Frenzy, use the burst of speed to get to get to safety and mend. Rinse and repeat unless they chase. It's boring at best and annoying at worst.
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I think Legion is in a pretty good place right now. This match they only finished 2 gens, and the last survivor got the free win mechanic. Otherwise it was a 4k. Mind you they were clearly not SWF, and I have seen better survivors before, but I would say this team is moderately what the dev's look at as "the average player", and my legion build made to face higher skilled survivors waxed the floor with them.
I wouldn't say legion is bad, there are just some things about the Killer that makes you roll your eyes at because it doesn't make sense.
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I like using tinkerer on him. Love sprinting up to people and deep wound them when they lease expect it. Then I'll kick the gen and proceed to chase. Seems weird but it works and is fun. Might throw third seal on him because ehh, why not. Game suppose to be fun
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Legion will not do well against good survivors. Let's leave it at that.
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Just wanted to reply to the "only Killer in the game that can punish you for hitting a survivor", with Deathslinger, landing a shot on an injured survivor and having them get behind something can punish you. Either you eat the stun, or you let them go free. You have to reload either way, and both slow you down to some extent. Often they get even further then they would have otherwise, and wastes more of your time.
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I'm not saying Legion is top tier by any means but he isn't as bad as some people would tell you. As mentioned earlier it just depends on the survivors. If I'm going against overly aulturistic survivors it's almost guaranteed to be a bloodbath. If the team is smart and splits up though that's when I have the most trouble. He definitely has some issues, but overall I'd honestly say hes mid tier. Not the worst not the best.
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Legion is the only killer I have seen injure the entire survivor team within a minute of the game starting. Especially if the survivors all spawn right on top of eachother, hit a nearby gen, and he has discordance.
That doesn't sound too weak, does it?
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The first hit on legion is always free? You literally just have to M1 people once to down them. Anyone saying that is weak is a baby killer, i'm sorry. It's like anyone you see is instantly exposed. Most red rank legions I see stack a few chase perks so they are an M1 monster after getting the free hit.
He is also the best killer in the game for pipping, hands down.
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What are you talking about? You see a survivor, you hit FF, you get a completely free hit unless you are a spud. Then you go on to get more free hits, or if nobody is around, attempt to bodyblock the survivor at the nearest pallet.
Any legion who hits an already injured survivor and gives them a free hit is a potato, which I assume you are since that's what you are implying. You only have to M1 people once for your downs, people crying that it's a weak power boggles my mind.
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Free speed boost my bad*
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He's on par with Wraith imo
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Mending deep wound doesn't remove the survivor's injury. There's a reason why Legion can actually use Thanataphobia. His power is excellent at getting all the survivors injured.
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That's you being punished for having bad positioning. 9 times out of 10, a good Deathslinger's gonna get the hit on a speared Survivor. Even then, that can help you close distance in a lot of cases, by reeling in the Survivor as much as possible before you need to let them go, if nothing else. The only thing that ever results from Legion hitting someone with Deep Wound in Frenzy except for losing his entire power gauge and giving them a speed boost, and for what? 300 extra Brutality bloodpoints and a reset to the mend progress bar?
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Mending deep wound doesn't remove the survivor's injury. There's a reason why Legion can actually use Thanataphobia. His power is excellent at getting all the survivors injured.
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The Legion are not bad but also not great. They are only a few QoL changes away from being pretty solid mid tier. But they won't ever be top tier. And I think thats ok.
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I honestly think he needs a full rework. I dont think hes the worst killer in the game, that's clown, but I do think legion suffers from similar issues. Legions ability is in a place where if you buff it in any meaningful way they become OP and you obviously cant nerf them since they're already pretty weak. In short legion has a poorly designed power that makes it impossible to adjust it in it's current state without making things worse in some way.
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He is pretty bad. I seen a quest for him in the latest rift. Thought wth and spent shards on him. Totally suffering from buyers remorse.
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Apparently he isn't bad at all. Many players hate playing against them but like playing as them. That means you like them.
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If you care in any way about ranking up for some reason then Legion is good for that. And if you wanted to improve your chase game they're also probably the best killer for that too. Without the cooldown add-ons Legion feels pretty crap to play but with them both it feels quite good. It's like windstorm Wraith in that sense. Addonless they're both pathetic but with add-ons they can be quite good. Not particularly great but good enough. I think the base fatigue on frenzy needs toning down by at least a second, and maybe give them the effect of iri button as default too (break pallets by vaulting over them).
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I'm going to copy-paste some stuff from my first comment, along with additional thoughts on Legion's balance.
I've been playing Legion ever since I bought the game when Plague was new, been through the ups and downs until we've arrived at the current version of Legion. I'm also a high purple rank - low red rank killer (if that means anything), so I think I can give some input. I want to get all of my thoughts down, so forgive the lengthy post.
I see Feral Frenzy in this way: it's a power that allows you to potentially injure multiple survivors at once, which was the intention behind the power, I'm sure. But the other part of Feral Frenzy that gets overlooked or devalued is the information. It's what allows you to know where to run in order to go frenzy stab other survivors, but it's also useful if you can't quite get to them in time, since you can decide to pressure the other survivors with normal hits or ignore them for the time being and chase down the survivor you just frenzy stabbed and finish them off.
The way I play Legion nowadays is to play them like an M1 killer for the most part, with an additional tool to gain information on other survivors. If I come across the first survivor, I first debate whether it's worth my time to use Feral Frenzy. Is the survivor by themselves? If so, then I'll try to hit them normally. If not, and there's one or two other survivors nearby, then I use Feral Frenzy, injure one, and chase down the others. If the survivor is alone and is trying to loop me around a pallet or some other structure, I wait until they drop the pallet or take the vault, use my power, get the frenzy stab, and look around to see if any other survivors happen to be close by. I usually leave the survivor I frenzy stabbed alone at that point if I know where the others are, since a survivor who has Deep Wounds has to tend to it at some point, and can't really afford to ignore it to work on a generator.
I do want to briefly talk about Deep Wounds, since it is a pretty lackluster debuff. I do wish Legion had a different debuff, but at this point, I kind of don't concern myself with it anymore. My goal as Legion isn't necessarily to apply Deep Wounds to everyone, it's to get everyone injured. Survivors often think it's better to not heal against Legion and just work on generators, since that denies the main benefit of Feral Frenzy. While that is true to an extent, smart Legions will abuse that mentality by running a build that punishes staying injured, like using the perk Blood Echo. And even if a survivor is injured, nothing's stopping Legion from frenzy stabbing you anyway for information. The ideal thing here is that survivors take time to heal each other to prevent Legion from snowballing them later, and the time spent healing is where Legion's main source of pressure comes from, at least to me.
The way Feral Frenzy works now, it's really frustrating that you lose Feral Frenzy gauge when attacking normally. It made sense in Legion's first iteration, when they could use the power whenever they wanted, pretty much. Now though, it's just another annoyance that keeps Legion from being the best they could be. To be clear, I don't think Legion is terrible. Their snowball potential is a real threat in the hands of a player that knows what they're doing. But things like losing Feral Frenzy meter when attacking normally and the unreasonably long fatigue, both of which punish players for playing well, do hold them back.
To summarize my thoughts on the balance of Legion:
- I don't believe they need a complete rework like Freddy got. They're not great, sure, but they're not terrible either. I think a "rework" on the level of Doctor might be warranted, where the nature of his power remained the same, but got an additional tool to assist him (Static Blast), and addons rebalanced to be less bad and more versatile.
- Mostly to make Legion a little better, they'll need QOL changes similar to the most recent one that allowed them to see blood and scratch marks during the fatigue. In my opinion, reducing the base fatigue to 3 seconds, and making it so they no longer lose 50% of their power meter when landing a normal hit. These two particular things would make Legion feel much better to play without changing a whole lot. They wouldn't become top tier (that's not really what I want anyway), but at the very least they might be mid tier.
I'm going to stop here now. Maybe I'll make a separate discussion providing more detailed thoughts for rebalancing.
Thank you for listening.😊
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