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The Major Problems with DBD's Balancing Are...
Maps, Skill Gaps, and Viable Perk Variety
So, recently, I was browsing Youtube for DBD content when I found a video made by OhTofu discussing about how DBD could reach actual balance. In his video, he explained that the main issue with DBD's balancing is the fact that the majority of maps and tiles can feel helpless for both sides.
To paraphrase, he basically said that while pallets always aren't plentiful in the whole map. If used by a survivor correctly, it can waste a lot of the killer's time on just a single pallet loop. So in short, he basically says a bad player will always feel like there's not enough pallets to help defend themselves from the Killer, or there is too many pallets for them to be able to chase and get a hit on the Survivor who they are chasing (who does know how to run the pallet.)
His proposed solution was to create more creative tiles that would feel more balanced for both sides. Tiles that gives both sides equal chance at either getting a hit or avoiding a hit and escaping.
I don't normally agree with a lot of content creators (I don't even know who OhTofu is until I watched this video), but I do agree that yeah, the regular map tiles we usually get can be changed up a bit so it doesn't feel helpless for both sides if they are versing someone who is more skilled than them.
And that brings me to my next point, Skill.
No one likes to feel absolutely stomped in this game. Especially if they are still new and learning the game, or are getting the hang of it, only for their momentum to be put into a screeching halt when faced against an opponent. It's why top tier perks and killers get a bad rep. It can make you feel absolutely hopeless going against them, like there's nothing you can do with your input as a player to influence the situation. And I totally get that, that feeling sucks.
The issue is, we're not accurately ranking people based on how good they actually are. We're ranking people based on how much they've played DBD in recent weeks. I've had a lot of games where I face Survivors or Killers who SHOULD NOT be in Rank 1. Like seriously, look at this:
5 Gens Remaining, with Hillbilly who the Community deems to be broken and bugged at the moment. These Survivors did not play in a way I expect a Rank 1 Survivor to play. They didn't do objectives, they barely looped me before going down, they immersed themselves into the corner allowing me to get easy one-hit downs,
And they were very altruistic to the point where it snowballed to what you just saw.
This is in RANK 1. RED RANKS. The supposed highest rank in the game. I know everyone says Rank doesn't matter, but it NEEDS to be. Which is why I'm more thankful of the MMR change they will be adding to the game in the coming updates. I don't want to play games where I stomp on Survivors, I want them to chase me and give me a challenge I have to overcome as a Killer.
There's no fun to be achieved when you're completely dominating a team who isn't putting up any effort to fight back. Sure, I've had loads of games where I 4ked before a single gen gets done. But in some of those games, the Survivors really made me work hard for it. For that "Perfect Game".
Which is why, I don't think any perks or killer in the game needs to be nerfed at the moment. The reason the meta is the way it is right now is because the majority of the perks that are used either give off an unnoticable difference, is very situational, or outright useless.
Perks like Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Unbreakable, Adrenaline, NoeD, BBQ, STBFL, Sloppy Butcher. All of these gives off effects that are immediately noticable when they work, and can completely change the tide of the match really REALLY quickly. It forces both sides to prepare for these perks because they are all so bloody common it's ridiculous. And why wouldn't they be? They're just THAT good! It's not like you need to really work for all of these perks to work for you. None of these perks are situational, they're always useful, and they can severely kill any momentum the other side may have if used by someone who knows what they are doing.
But, like I said, none of these perks needs to be gimped or made useless (same with Killers who are strong but we're not going to talk about them right now). BHVR really needs to focus on making other perks worth it or more useful.
I notice they tend to talk about the perks they do use, and those perks tend to stray a bit from the meta. But guys, this is not how you encourage people to use different perks. You cannot just say "Well I use this and this" or "I use this killer because of this reason." Half of the forums seem to not trust you, so why would they think to use perks you guys personally recommend?
You need to give old perks a new shine and glow so they would be more useful for a more variety of situations, or a more variety of playstyles. If Enduring could tank other stuns other than Pallet Stuns, I could see more people using it. If perks like Deja Vu can show you which generator the Survivor should go to next, like indicate which one has more progress on it, I could see more Solo Survivors using it.
Just basically ANYTHING that would give these perks something valuable to run it in exchange for the meta perks most people use. It would make perks seem more like, well, PERKS. It wouldn't make them seem like they're useless Bloodpoint dumps.
Like come on, what are we going to use perks like Territorial Imperative or Wake Up! for? They're not good enough for people to consider swapping out for other perks that are objectively better.
I'm not talking about making all of the perks in the game to be broken or to be game changers like the established meta. I'm just asking for them to be made more enticing for players to use so we don't have to go through every game looking at the same goddamn loadouts over and over and over again.
You know what really makes a game boring or stale? It's the fact that you see the same thing over and over again. Not because they are overpowered, not because they are powerful.
But because you already know it will happen, and any kind of thrill and joy you may have during the match will no longer surprise you because you already expected it to happen.
It's why I'm thrilled to see Survivors with exhaustion perks like Lithe, they're situational but I never expect it so I just end up getting excited for the chase.
I love playing this game, I'm a huge fan of old 80s Slasher Killers, and I'm a huge fan of the world, the realm that DBD has created. Hell, I've dreamt about it in my sleep about being chased by Freddy (That's probably not a good thing)
I just don't want this game to go the way of Friday the 13th or Last Year. I doubt it will, but even though this game is in a more balanced state right now, it still needs a lot of improvements before the community starts to devour itself from the inside.
Of course, you will never be able to satisfy everyone 100%. But the least you can do is try to make sure:
- No one feels helpless or powerless when playing the game, no matter what side you are on.
- Players with high skill levels only gets to play with each other, and do not interact with players who are new or are still learning the game.
- There's always a variety in the opponents you are chasing, and that there isn't just a stale meta that everyone follows.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk, it's 4 AM and I spent the night talking about balance in Dead by Daylight.
Good Night! Or I guess, Good Morning.
Comments
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People have no reason to run perks in the meta unless they are meta. You can't design a perk intentionally for it to be weak then be surprised when it isn't run in the meta. I think that balancing perks around a standard a step behind the meta is exactly what is keeping the meta so stale. The devs shouldn't be afraid to innovate or expand, but they are. People can complain about seeing the same perks in the meta over and over again, but the truth is they don't really want perks to be that strong. They aren't willing to have another perk become associated with such negativity, and this attitude is what prevents that negativity from going away. Buckle Up working like BT, Hope not having a timer, and Second Wind being easier to activate are all changes that could happen and put those perks closer to meta status, but these ideas are thrown away to ease the fears of the community. "We wouldn't want that perk to become a game changer."
Ok rant over, good post OP and you are pretty spot on with your analysis.
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Tiles I can't really comment on, I honestly don't pay enough attention to that sort of thing to be able to make informed judgements about the balance.
The ranks, as you identified yourself, are about to be changed, so talking about how unbalanced they are is pretty moot at this stage.
As for the perks, firstly I think it's a mistake to assume that (a) members of the dev team mentioning what perks or killers they like to use on the forums is anything more than an expression of a personal preference, not necessarily an attempt to encourage players to use those perks, and (b) that their goal is to have everyone switching up builds all the time in the first place.
There will always be a meta in a game like DBD - pretending that's not a certainty, or trying to eradicate it somehow, is a waste of time, and I'm pretty sure the devs know that. That doesn't mean they won't buff weaker perks - I believe they have a list already of weak/underused perks that they plan to do something about in the future - but at the same time, not all perks are going to be top-tier in terms of power or usage. Some perks, like Wake Up or Any Means Necessary, are designed for very niche applicability and that's not only okay, but as it should be.
It's also worth bearing in mind that the meta is different in different regions, so balancing perks according to what the meta is is, generally, a bad idea because those changes are global, whereas player attitudes are often local. For example, you mentioned Lithe in your post as an example of a perk that you don't see that often, but statistically Lithe is actually used more overall than DS, Borrowed Time or Adrenaline.
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Regarding the meta bit.
I'm pretty sure OP was talking about balancing perks at high level play,what i think wouldn't be too bad but buffing really weak perks should be the first and most important step to shake up the meta.
The perk usage statistic was pointless anyway because it involved the statistics of players from every rank.Showing the statisitic of Red ranks would have been more helpful,but even then we would have to wait for the new rank system so we can,hopefully,really judge how a common loadout of a high level player looks like.
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I didn't get that impression, since he talked a lot earlier in the post about balancing equally for players of all skill levels, but @DelsKibara feel free to clarify. Regardless though, I must admit I'm a little confused as to how that pertains to my comment, since neither my nor OP's discussion of meta perks even mentioned player skill levels. The meta has nothing to do with how many people are using something or what their skill level is, it's about what the community as a whole generally considers the strongest builds or characters. All I was saying is that there will still be a meta regardless of which perks receive nerfs or buffs, or who is most affected by those changes, so rebalancing the game with the goal of removing the meta altogether is a lost cause.
And perk usage statistics are important if someone is suggesting that perks be balanced on that basis (as OP seemed to be). It doesn't matter that those stats span across all ranks and regions - in fact, it's better that they do, since such changes would affect all players, not just those at high ranks, so all of their experiences are relevant to the balance decisions being made.
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The survivors you are going up against, sounds like a majority of my team mates, i been getting lately. Just throw in a few failed flash light saves = dc and all of them killing themselves on first hook and bang. That shells up a majority red rank team mates for me. I seen purple and green rank survivors, be better than a majority of the red rank survivors i have seen. Like it less stressful to play a game where you got your rear handle to you, as a killer than it is to play solo in red ranks as survivor. Since at least i get a chance to play the game as killer and not be doomed right from the start, due to the other three survivors all killing themselves on first hook. That and due to me knowing i might of made a error or two, making it my own fault in part for the outcome and not be doomed purely due to forces outside of my control. For i'm no god survivor, i can't loop a killer around for five gens. I need team mates to help out here and there. So hopefully the new match making system will pair people up with team mates around their skill level.
For the most fun games be they as survivor or killer, are when people are close to the same skill level and it leads to a nice decent length game, where everyone gets a fair chance to play the video game and it's not a pure slaughter with in the first five minutes. Rather it a nice back and forth, with the tides turning one way in say favor of the survivors, only to turn back in favor of the killer. A fun match is like a good story, you can't be sure of the outcome until the very end. Hopefully the new match making system will lead to more of this.
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The problem with not running Meta Perks is that you have a couple games where you just feel hopeless without them. Some killers will tunnel you straight off the hook, which means as soon as you get caught your game is pretty much over barring a mistake by the killer. They're off proxy camping, you get saved, and instead of going for your teammate, they go straight for you because "easy injured down" unless your teammate happens to be running BT. And if they don't, you're down and back up on the hook to mash whatever button you have to mash to struggle. All because you decided NOT to run that 'second chance' perk. Essentially, you're punished for not running it.
And most survivors have little killer awareness. They don't pick up on things like "Killer is proxy camping". They barely pay attention to the killer's behavior. And yeah, that's definitely a lack of skill thing, but a lot of those survivors make it up to Red Ranks because they're been playing long enough.
Example: The other day I faced off against a Spirit. She was proxy camping every hook just outside the range of kindred. I could tell because a survivor I saved got re-hooked soon after. We got 3 gens done pretty fast, then I worked on a gen with another survivor. As soon as that gen was about half done, I went to another gen to work on it. There were just three of us left at that point, and one of us went down. I KNEW she was proxy camping, even though I couldn't see her inside Kindred. Sure enough, my teammate gets Gen #4 done, and then goes for the save. And sure enough as soon as she enters area, Spirit follows her. She gets the save, but Spirit downs the hooked survivor immediately. Then downs them. I get the final gen done, and go 99 the exit gates. At this point she's camping the hooks entirely. At which point, I'm NOT going for the save. It'd be suicide. I look for NoED until my teammates are sacrificed entirely, can't find it, and just end up leaving. Of course I get punished for leaving them behind, despite it being the best play.
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Oh sorry,it seems like i misred that part.
The real problem with perk useage statistics is the fact that not all (probably a big part of the community) have access to every perk.This would lead to an inaccurate statistic.
By using the data of only red rank players you are more likely to get the players that have access to all those perks,right?
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I'm mainly talking about making perks seem more worth to use for specific playstyles.
Like rather than having the same 4 perks you see all the time in every match, add some variety to it that gives certain playstyles more options to explore.
Right now there's no reason to take perks like Cruel Limits because the usage of that perk is very minimal, and even then it's not going to synergize well with much other perks in the game.
Having the devs either buffing perks like that, or adding something more unique to it could spice up the perk selection for both sides.
Because right now, both as a Survivor and Killer I only realistically have 1 page full of useful perks with the rest being either garbage or way too mediocre to consider taking in place of the more obviously powerful ones.
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issue is ranking is messed up, people are red ranks that cant loop, miss skillchecks and just lack alot of counter knowledge so when you go against a good swf thats when the games gets put on a halt. for the most part i have no issues with this game, whether that be swf, moris, perks etc. but if something is to bug me itd be versing a full meta SWF that actually know tiles, loops etc. just because on certain maps and as certain killers you arent going to have a good game, worst map being haddonfield... but thats about it tbh. i just dont get why i get team-mates that urban evade all game not touching gens at rank 1 but when i play killer everyone will be running meta perks and know how to run tiles or play in swf 😂 like god damn it just give me a game where i can go against the teammates i had 😂
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All this game needs is secondary objectives and continued improvements to the maps. I dont have a problem with any of the perks you mentioned (thoigh you're wrong about STBFL, you have to earn that and keep it by completely ignoring an entire player).
If I were emporerer Id make it so the survivors can only work on the number of gens equal to the number of totems cleansed, then completely rework noed to do something entirely different. But thats just one of thousands of things they could do to add secondary objectives.
My problem with ohtofus idea was more pallets. Thats just a bad plan.
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I agree with this, most of the perks are far to situational.
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You make a solid point about rank/skill.
In Gears of War 4 I was diamond rank in TDM and Guardian (I only played the first I think 2 or 3 seasons before they added tiers to Diamond), and Onyx 3 in everything else (which is 1 step below Diamond). In season 2 I was PLACED into Diamond rank TDM. Literally did not even need to play to rank up, I did the 10 placement matches and got put in Diamond TDM (the game just before I went 24-7 single-handedly winning the game while we were in a 4v5). I have, collectively across Gears 1/2/3/4/UE/Judgment, over 25k hours. I played in and/or ran tournaments for Gears 1/2/3. I know every glitch in every game for every patch, the stats of every weapon in every game, the shooting and cover mechanics in every game where I can play without a HUD, I know every piece of cover on every map like the back of my hand, and I have an innate ability to know exactly when a weapon will respawn (whether it's after use or after pickup) along with the ability to predict where the ring moves in Annex/KOTH with about 90% accuracy. I have strong fundamentals and I make smart tactical plays. I would get MVP in probably 80% of my games.
In short I am a literal God at this game. And no I am not bragging, I'm actually being quite humble.
The reason I'm flexing like this is because of how matchmaking worked in Gears 4. Again I was Diamond rank. So I should play against other Diamonds right? Nope. Well sort of. The game would match me, a Diamond, with a low Onyx and 3 mid Golds on my team. The other team would have the same composition of rankings. Now let me ask you... DO YOU THINK THIS IS FAIR???
At face value it seems fair. The ranks are all equal so that means fair and balanced. But here is the problems.
First, if anyone BUT the other Diamond meets me in a 1v1, they lose. There is no chance for a player like this to beat someone like me. ZERO. Maybe if they have Boom or Frags they can get me, or maybe if the connection screws me over they can get lucky. But at the end of the day, I win every. Single. Fight. They don't stand a chance. I move too fast and my aim is too good. They just get bodied before they can even react. Any minute mistake they make I punish with a single Gnasher shot to the chest and they ded.
Second, the game pretty much comes down to me V the other Diamond player. In Gears, Boomshot is the most contested weapon because it holds the most sway in the match. You win Boom, you have like a greater than 80% chance to win the game. Doesn't matter the mode or the map, Boom wins games. Some other weapons can be important and there are ways to make a comeback if you lose Boom, but it's generally considered a losing fight. That means that if me and the other Diamond meet at Boom and I win, I get Boom and now the game is effectively over. Doesn't matter if they have 14 more lives, that's the game winning moment right there. Now the only player that has a chance to beat me is going to lose every fight because I have Boom, and not a single other player even stands a chance when I don't have Boom, when I do it's like they should just DC right there and find a new game.
Basically, the idea that two teams with equal composition is "fair" is a fallacy. It's not. Not even close. The only team compositions that are fair are ones where EVERYONE is a Diamond rank, or at least high Onyx. In part, I can understand why they did not do this, because Diamond ranks are rare so matchmaking for me would take ages, but that doesn't excuse this nonsense where there are Golds in a game against Diamonds. That just straight up should never happen in rank games.
I look at DBD and I see basically the same thing, only difference is that rank is too easy to get so there are a lot of boosted players. On both sides. Had a rank 6 Pig chase me last night FOR 5 GENS! And I still managed to run out the door. Literally the only reason she even hit me once was because I got dedicated (she was literally like 10m away and swung I still got hit). But truth is, this guy should not be rank 6. He played like a rank 15. He should be rank 15. And I shouldn't be matched with him.
Now I'm not nearly as good at DBD as I am Gears, but the point still stands that the games needs to 1) do a better job of ranking players so that you don't get babies at rank 1, and 2) do a better job of matchmaking so me, as a legit rank 1, doesn't get put against ranks 20's, which happened like 4 times last night. That's absurd. It's not fair and I feel like a bully when I see the end game screen. ######### some of these killers I'd probably farm with, maybe even let them kill me, but I have no way to know until the game is over (I can guess, but that rank 6 Pig I swear was a rank 15 during the game, so it's not always accurate based on how they play). Plus then I lose rank for doing that, so I'm incentivized to basically be super toxic, do gens, run the killer for 5 minutes, and yeet out the gate. It's disappointing to get these games so frequently now, and it kind of kills my drive to play. I got low ranks as a rank 1 killer too, but last few nights I've been getting red rank survivors so it feels like it got a little better on that end at least.
BHVR is supposedly working on some new matchmaking system. I hope it works, but I also hope it's not too restricting because matchmaking times can SUUUUUCK sometimes especially for survivors.
/rant
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Until SWF are addressed anything except tiles will also keep them above solo survivors
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What do you mean by "anything except tiles"? Curious about this
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To be honest, this game has a lot of balancing issues. Let's start with a fact: this is a killer's game. Unless you're playing with 3 friends and all of you communicate (and coordinate) well, this is a killer's game.
- Killers can abuse the 3-gen-in-a-row tactic and prevent you from doing anything except accept death.
- Killers suffer no delay after falling from heights.
- Killers have long hits (or charged hits, as some people call'em).
- Killers have abusive addons and perks. (Every killer brings Barbecue and Chilly and almost every killer brings No One Escapes Death.)
- If a killer wants to camp you, it's not against the game's rules.
Seriously... it's a pain to deal with skilled killers. It's stressful. Either take away Bloodlust and Barbecue from them and force them to use their brains to find survivors or add some innate passives to survivors... for example, Meg runs 10% faster than the others. Feng fixes gens 10% faster. Things like that.
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- You can avoid a three gen by skipping gens, and leaving certain ones undone. Also, it's not impossible to finish a 3-gen. I've had it happen to me as killer, and I've completed one (solo) as survivor. It just takes a LOT of time. Some three gens are harder than others, but they are fairly doable. But it's on you if you leave gens THAT close together undone before there's 1 gen remaining.
- This has minor effects if any, and is probably how it should be.
- Lunges are fine. They're harder to hit, but good for making distance. As it should be
- BBQ+Chili is not an abusive perk. Would you rather the killer camp the first hook? Some addons are powerful, but only a couple are truly game breaking (Iri Head).
- Camping is the only legit complaint, I think. That and tunneling. Survivors need to get smarter about camping killers. If they complete gens and just get out, then killers will have to adapt to it, instead of giving a camping killer another down, which allows them to snowball the entire game, then use NoED to finish off. There's no really good solution that's not abusable by one side or the other. There's also times where camping is a good strategy, though its not as often as many Killer mains would lead you to believe. I think the solution lies somewhere in this idea: Gens go slower when a killer is in chase, gens go faster when a survivor is on the hook. This forces the killer to find a new chase. The amount would have to be enough to let gens get done faster if the killer camps, but not so much that survivors can just leave their teammate on the hook.
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For the whole meta perk situation. You know what I wish the perks in Dead By Daylight were ? I wish they were like Friday The 13TH's perks meaning, they aren't very reliant, but they still give you hope. And in order to do that, I think BHVR should get rid of perk tiers. A lot of the perks in this game are very very reliant which, in my opinion, isn't great perk design, and some perks are also very useless once they're purple tier 3 so really it's not even worth leveling them up, but obviously we do anyways because it makes us feel more comfortable and more effective even though some of them aren't. I like Friday The 13TH's perks because they're very basic, but they can also be pretty effective at times, and they're pretty creative. I know we're not talking about Friday The 13th here but I just wanted to compare Dead By Daylight's perk with Friday's just because I think we can kinda learn from them and it could possibly fix useless perks in the game and turning them into new metas.
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