How would you make Freddy more "Fun"?
I see this being brought up a lot now.
Rather than calling him Overpowered, I see his complaints of being boring more often than not.
So, I'd like to open a thread to air all that out. How would you make Freddy more fun?
Personally, if I were to choose it's to make the passive sleep slowdown during a chase. Not stop it entirely like with Pig's RBT, but slow it down to half so if the Survivor can dodge and weave him the whole time he can stay awake for longer, becoming less susceptible to his traps.
I personally find Freddy to be a fun Killer to play against, and I know waking up can be rather finnecky with how he plays during chase. So instead, maybe reward the survivor for not getting hit by him by not have them be affected by his Dream Snares/Pallets. And reward Freddy for catching up to the Survivor with no power to aid him by doing what he already does, put people to sleep during chase.
(Please for the love of the Entity don't make this a Killer vs Survivor thread, we can come to a compromise guys.)
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only thing freddy needs is a rework on the block's add on, the rest not a single change is needed he brings in a challenge for survivors and they cant treat him as a normal M1 killer he actually fun to play as and against as it beats the same old do gen run to pallet or jungle gym when being chased and loop for 5 minutes then escape.
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This is the real answer here. ^^^
Freddy does not need any more changes beyond the ones he has already been given, I mean seriously, the singlehandedly biggest and best rework in the history of DBD and people want him to be changed again?
Edit: Not "people" in general, it's survivors. It's basically only survivor mains complaining.
If Freddy does get changes in the future it's not gonna be for a good *ss long while. There are other killers that need far more serious attention than Freddy who's only apparent problem is "he's boring" (oh please). My man Clown is in desperate need of a buff / rework and Leatherface, Pig, Plague, Legion, all need some serious love as well.
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I get that, but I want to at least herd the tension a little bit by letting people vent out what they think should be changed to Freddy to make him more "Fun". It's better than letting them be.
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Nerf him to Clown/Bubba tier and you'll make him tra... eehhh I mean fun
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1) Reduce his lunge.
2) Remove teleporting to gens. He can teleport to his boxes.
3) Waking up via boxes laats longer.
4) Snares are an add on. Pallets are base. You get 5 pallets.
Then he'd be enjoyable killer.
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Me personally i think Freddy is dull, boring and well just flat out garbage to both play as and against.. so the only why to make him fun would be a 100% rework to something/anything worth playing with.
But this is my personal opinion on Freddy, i know others think differently
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1) His lunge is the same, I'm making this thread about how to change him to become more fun, not to make him worse than base when compared to other killers.
2) That honestly would be more dangerous imo, because then he has constant map pressure because you cannot destroy clocks.
3) I can agree with that.
4) I wouldn't want that to be honest, because to me Pallets are more dangerous than Snares. I have a rough time keeping track of them myself.
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No it's not actually, it is by far not better these threads crop up every few days and they perpetuate this idea that "there is a real problem with Freddy" when there is seriously NOT.
By creating more of these threads you are quite literally stoking the flames, fanning the fire, adding wood on the pile, literally any and every phrase I can think of that has to do with creating a bigger problem, COMBINED!!!
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^^;;
I just am very wary with how the forums are going right now, mainly because it just seems like people always fight about Freddy and other Killers.
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Personally, I would like the dream world to be more threatening. Before he was reworked, waking up felt NECESSARY to progress the game and was a big threat if not handled immediately. Now waking up is optional against A DREAM DEMON.
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Here's the problem I have with people saying "make killer more fun to play against." The game is revolved around winning. That's like saying "these survivor perks aren't fun to play against and should be more fun to go against."
The only thing that makes Freddy "OP" imo is the fact you can't get BT to work if you're asleep while unhooking someone. Secondly, he's easy to counter if people just wake themselves and others up.
Freddy is just a teleporting M1 killer
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Pallet campers are more fun to you???
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I do find him fun to play against, don't get me wrong, I love going against him. He is probably my second favourite, close to Spirit in terms of how much I love playing against. I just want this thread to be more of a compromise, at least in the forums so peopel don't feel like they're getting unheard.
I don't want to perpetuate that Freddy has a problem though, like what Seiko300 mentioned. I honestly don't think he does. But if this keeps up the forums will just be nothing but these threads over and over again without any kind of actual discussion being done.
I do agree Legion is a borefest though, because you're not really interacting with the killer. No chase, nothing. Just mend and mend.
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I honestly just want to see Plague get a rework. However, I've had a good 5 games where people DC'd as soon as they saw a Plague.
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The problem with freddy is that his counterplay IS boring.
You have to stay awake as long as possible by wasting time through going to clocks,finding teammates or failing skill checks and freddy doesn't even have to do anything for it as well.It also doesn't prevent you from falling asleep even if you didn't get hit before.
And if you do fall asleep your only "counter" to him is to drop all those paletts earlier or risk getting hit.
And the fact that his power in general is just really easy to ise makes it even worse.
There are killers like Huntress,Hag or Oni that are very hard to survive againstif they are good but still have decent counterplay to them.
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Honestly the freddy rework was a big dissapointment for me.I would have loved it if the devs were a bit more creative with freddys power.
His gen teleport and fake pallets were definetely new and interesting ideas but the snares felt a bit unfitting.
After all he is supposed to be the one that is in control of the dream world.So adding more ways for freddy to interact with his environmet would have been awesome.
But realisticly speaking my idead to change freddy would be:
-Falling asleep takes 120 seconds instead of 90 seconds if you wake up at a clock
-passive sleep takes 90 seconds instead of 60
-the timer is paused in a chase
-Or you can wake up at every clock not just the one that is the furthest away fron you (the most fair idea of all in my opinion)
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To be honest Freddy is not one of my favorite killers even tho I myself am a killer wraith and Claudette main. But the more practice against someone like him you’ll succeed more.
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1.Yes that might be true but those aren't side objectives that are exactly required in order to escape,like looking for parts in order to repair a gen would be.
2.Gaining as much possible without just looping ins't a counter.It's the way a survivor is supposed to play their chases (Try to get as much distance between you and the killer,when he catches up to you go to a loop near to you,drop the pallets if he gets to close to you and force him to break hit ;repeat)
-There may be not that many threads about clown,but if you ask others then most will tell you that clown is also a very boring killer to verse
3.It's not a problem of how easy he is to use but how strong his power is in comparison.My ideal of balancing characters is that strong power = hard to master it/needs a certain timeinvestment; weaker power = easier to master it/only needs a little time investment.
I do agree that playing survivor can sometimes be quite easy.
The problem with that however is that the only time a survivor can show their skill is in chases,but often times games aren't long enough that every survivor can prove their skill so they only have to sit on gens and escape.Therefor adding new mechanics that requires survivors skill in something other than chases would be super interesting and very much needed honestly.
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All he needs is 1 simple great thing...Give him one liners for every time he hits you, you step in a snare, get hooked, kicking/breaking pallets/gens, etc. I wanna hook someone on death hook and here "welcome to primetime #########!"
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His counterplay and playstyle is uninteresting and not enjoyable to me personally. There is nothing you can really do to make him “fun” for players who don’t like facing him. Doesn’t mean he needs heavy changes, he’s just not one of the enjoyable killers.
Some killers have enjoyable counterplay even though it’s hard to win against them if they are good like Huntress and Nurse. Unpopular opinion but I think Spirit is enjoyable to face (if you have Iron Will which I always run). Freddy just isn’t one of the killers many people enjoy facing.
Players don’t like “slowdown effects” because it drags the game on for longer than it needs to be and that is what Freddy excels at, dragging the game on for far too long. Holding M1 on a gen is not what players want to do, that is why Forever Freddy was so disliked.
Pair the slowdown effects with the fact that he isn’t as enjoyable as most killers in a chase is why he is so heavily disliked. In AND out of a chase is very resident sleeper.
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I personally don't think Freddy is necessarily boring or OP but playing him does not require any skill whatsoever and is therefore very unrewarding to play against. Changes that would require more skill from Freddy players could be, for example, increasing the passive sleep timer to 90 seconds (from alarms to 120 seconds), the timer either slows down or stops when getting chased and placing snares has a cooldown and/or slowdown so it requires more strategy from the killer. To balance this, successfull hits and hooks could hasten the sleep timer of survivors by a certain amount.
I watched Otz's stream yesterday and someone on his chat asked him
"Who is the killer that you hate the most?"
This is a direct quote of his answer:
"Old nurse was pretty bad, I didn't like it. I hate how easy and stupid Freddy is at times. I've seen a lot of Freddy players that are just so mediocre and they just have a killer that's so strong and the addons can carry you as well, the good ones. Probably Freddy then, if I have to pick one killer that I think is the most "broken". At least if you play Nurse you have to be good."
Here is a link to that stream:
https://m.twitch.tv/videos/622805833
The timestamp for that question is 7:07:57.
Now I know that his opinion is not the absolute truth just because he's a streamer but I also have seen that many forum members values his take on these matters. The fact that he has so much knowledge and experience of the killers in this game gives his opinions a lot of credit. The claim that Freddy boosts mediocre players does not come from nothing and seems to be a rising topic among the dbd community.
Edit. My final take on the topic of fun:
How can you have fun when you cannot outplay an opponent who is worse than you?
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I guess that is a fair take, I personally don't mind if he is easier to play with than other Killers. As a Survivor my main concern is to have fun and get into chases, it's why I personally don't find playing against Trapper to be fun. At least with Hag she still has to chase you by teleporting to her traps.
I do think, however, that the concensus that Freddy boosts Mediocre Players is less due to the fact of him being easier to play and more on Survivors not keeping themselves awake for long. I've never had issues with his snares (just his pallets), but I know my own experiences aren't absolute either. I don't think Freddy has an issue right now, but that doesn't mean that he can't be changed in a way to make him seem more broadly fun. Without nerfing his entire basekit. Which is basically the whole reason for this thread.
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Make BT work against him, stop OoO working against him as it does and make him slow down when placing snares like Clown when he is throwing his bottles.
That would fix most the issues survivors and killers have with him.
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Remove the "falling asleep then waking up" thing entirely and make it so that you're always in the dream world, but that has no effect on him or the survivors, and is purely visual. That's always been his biggest problem even from OG Freddy. Change some of his addons(namely the ones that do things while survivors are asleep, since they'd always be "asleep", and these like most of his kit are just passive bonuses for being Freddy) into different things, like perhaps maybe allow him to teleport to his traps like Hag, but with a longer delay than Hag's teleport, with no visual notification to survivors(they can't see traps, but can trigger them), using them to find survivors to chase, not to slow them down, just more things to use his powers differently like pallets. Probably make Freddy slow down when casting/charging his snares so that he wouldn't become overpowered from survivors always being "asleep".
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This is the kind of suggestions I've been looking for. It feels fresh and original while still keeping the spirit of the Killer alive.
I would love to see this change added, though of course with the dev's approval and testing.
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As I said, I don't find Freddy fun to play because most of his kit is just passive bonuses and he's basically the epitome of an M1 killer. I also prefer balance above all else so I'm not gonna suggest something purely like "Make Freddy all around weaker". The slow down while casting/charging snares would also make him more outplayable for survivors, but being asleep all the time gives both killer and survivor counterplay to each other. It's a more balanced idea than current Freddy who just can spam them whenever he wants and doesn't have to realistically think about his decisions. Skill expression is another thing I always like to see. Removing all the stuff Freddy gets for "just being Freddy" would be my overall goal in a rework like that in order to give him more fun things to play with rather than just "I'm Freddy, so now your gen speeds are slower, or I get a free Pop Goes the Weasel if you're asleep, miss a skill check, and I have Huntress Lullaby".
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I can understand why you wouldn't find that fun to play, though I'm sure there are others who enjoys that kind of gameplay. Mainly because I know someone who mains Freddy. He is still a good Killer in his own right though, having mained Freddy way before the Rework (He got to Rank 1 using nothing but him), so maybe he just still plays Freddy because he just wants to play the Killer. Not so much their power.
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Honestly old Freddy was actually a lot more fun. The aura reading + sneaking up on survivors was ridiculously fun to play. You could have survivors running straight into you. I would love to have an addon that made it where he got that level of aura reading again, but maybe couldn't use snares. Also I'll complain about the current lullaby until the day I quit DBD. Make children sing the song dammit.
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Id change his base to have dream pallets instead of snares. Thats it. Snares would be add ons. That would make him more fun for me to play as
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Clown's got charisma, Freddy's just a burnt paedo.
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How do you adapt to wallhacks with teleportation? The issue is that he can apply extreme pressure and reduce gens by 25 percent after each hook, almost instantly. There is not thought or good play to Freddy. His teleportation needs to either have a longer cool down or there needs to be a greater penalty for using it.
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The cool down is not "big". He can AT LEAST use it after every single hook. Which is really all he needs to insta teleport to a gen all the way across a map and kick it for regression of 25 percent.
I also always love the "any God team in this game can do this or that". That's not the way the game is though. You don't base balance on some type of navy seal SWF team that is no where near the norm.
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I'd like to see him e slowed down a bit while placing a snare and for him to be able to use dream pallets alongside snares.
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The thing is with The Nightmare, he isn't fully Freddy and I understand that. Freddy can only hurt you when you are asleep. I think The Nightmare should only hurt you when you are in the dream world. Now I know this could ruin the game for the killer since the survivors can do anything to stay awake which is a good strategy because while you're running to your next alarm clock you're not repairing generators or breaking totems. You could somehow do things like The Pig. There is a 1 in 3/4 chances that the alarm clock will wake you up. You could pick it up and the alarm clock could break in your hands and now you need to move on to the next one or short out a generator to wake up.
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Personally I would mostly just touch the sleep mechanics to start with and see from there if more is needed.
1) increase the sleep timer. I see the popular number for this is 90 seconds (1 min 30 sec). Possibly also increase the clock pause on the timer. They always make you go to the other side of the map to use them. They should give sufficient protection for the time put in to even reach them that could have been spent doing something else.
2) Take away the survivor getting put to sleep on hit. This kind of defeats the whole purpose of waking up. Either passive sleep or on hit sleep not both. Maybe make on hit sleep a rarer add-on if it really wants to be kept.
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Honestly I don't know about the getting put to sleep on hit, I think maybe pausing the timer during a chase is better than that. Mainly because if it's just using the Passive Timer for him to be able to use his powers, then we have issues back with Old Freddy as to why he is so weak.
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Whats the point in wasting the time to wake up when if I get found while awake I get put to sleep anyway either by him hitting me or by the timer. I might as well stay asleep and use that time to do a gen. Also old Freddy did not have teleports, snares, and the ability to hit awake survivors. He would in no way be back to old Freddy status.
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I would agree with @DelsKibara at that point.
Removing his ability to pull survivors into the dream world by hitting them would make him extremely weak in my opinion.
Stop the sleep timer in a chase and maybe let survivors use every clock but reduce the sleep timer from it from 90 to 60 seconds and he would be a lot fairer without making him too weak.
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I honestly think what @Atrushan88 suggested is what should be changed with him. Keep everyone in the Dream State, but give him penalties for using snares so it would not be as effective as it was previously, but this also eliminates the hassle of trying to stay up and wake up. And give his add-ons that gives more changes to his basekit and how he plays.
His suggestion is honestly the one I would love to see the most for what they could change for Freddy.
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If I'm going to be asleep in chase either way then wasting the time to wake up barely seems worth it. I don't really care to much if I'm asleep and out of chase because it barely affects me. Its a waste of time to wake up when I could just loop him for the time I would be wasting waking up to begin with, and I'm also not doing the objective in the meantime. He gets his teleport a little quicker, but he's either going to be chasing or teleporting, not usually both and the teleport also has a tell. I don't want him to be weak, but we need to give a good reason to wake up to begin with and also make awake time reasonable.
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If he chases you and you fall asleep by being hit, that means he already worked to get his advantage over you, he already worked on being able to use his powers against you. If he is a terrible Killer and couldn't hit you in the first place, then you have nothing to worry about. Especially if we go with the timer being paused during chase suggestion.
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I'm assuming the killer is at least decent here, but I'm starting to see your point. Chasing as an m1 killer with no power sucks. Pausing the timer is probably the best solution now that I thought about it a bit more and from the responses here. You changed someones mind on the internet, props to you.
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Using the clocks is a waste of time. It's much easier to just blow a gen up, you end up wasting the 30 seconds you'd save getting TO the clock. They are not good uses of time. Anyone telling people to run to clocks is asking for people to act selfishly and risk losing the game more than if they just dealt with his power or blew up a gen. The only time this isn't the case is when he runs Red Paint Brush, in which case the only way to wake yourself up is to use those clocks. That said, it'd be stupid to just be like "Ooh! I fell asleep, time to run all the way to the other side of the map and wake myself up!" If you're not being chased, there's no danger, use them when you're near them, not when you fall asleep. Doing anything other than that is killing your team. If you ARE being chased, it's no different than if he injured you, because eventually you're going to be asleep in a chase anyways. If everyone's going to clocks while one person is running him around, then that survivor is running the killer for no reason. Other survivors are WASTING that person's sacrifice. I've noticed it's always people who are PLAYING Freddy telling people to use the clocks. Pretty suspicious if you ask me, considering I've actually TESTED using a clock at every opportunity(just to disprove that whole myth that you should use clocks to keep yourself awake) and can tell people with a straight face that if you do that, you're killing your team.
As for "worse version of Hag/Demogorgon", I'm not sure how. As I said, those would be addon suggestions, removing all the random PASSIVE bonuses he gets, not changing his power. as for "removing the dream world", this would be better for Freddy if you think about it. Survivors would have no way to counteract his power(his puddles/pallets would ALWAYS WORK). In order to make this more balanced however, there would have to be drawbacks, like slowing down instead of having normal speed while spamming his puddles. Otherwise he'd be overbuffed. The dream world doing something has ALWAYS been a problem with Freddy. It'd be much better if it were just ASSUMED people were in the dream world and had the visuals, but removed the whole in game mechanics of it. Freddy isn't supposed to be able to do anything to anyone who is awake, which thematically would make more sense while assuming everyone WAS in the dream world. The only thing this would nerf on Freddy is his ability to counter Borrowed Time, which if you ask me is stupid to begin with. He shouldn't counter Borrowed Time, no killer should. It's used to counter campers, something the devs said they do not want to become a GOOD tactic. See where I'm going with this? Nothing I've suggested would make him BAD or WORSE than Hag or Demogorgon(who are not bad killers to begin with).
Post edited by Atrushan88 on0
