The Hag

The only thing she needs is to have her player be devoted to her.

My favorite killer is The Hag, and I've played as her a lot, personally, I think she does not need a buff anywhere tbh
Sure, extra 4-8 meter teleport distance would be nice, except that the current range is almost too much already... 
Some speed would be nice then!? 
Except, she has more speed than necessary, she's not a chaser, if you actively chase survivors, you're playing her wrong (unless scarred hand... Which actually needs a buff)
Basically, she's very well balanced, and my favorite killer, one of the proper tactical killers, her only fault is the slight issue with add-ons
Which makes her better without add-ons than with, with the exception of Shackles and Heart. 
Tl;dr: if you as a Hag player thinks she needs a buff, reconsider your trap placements and playstyle, as there may be a few ways to improve c:

@Deverer said:
What I would like is that teleporting to a trap doesn't kill your momentum, or you can full lunge from teleporting. I've missed a lot because you have to run for a second before you can lunge, or sometimes it just doesn't lunge at all. I think this alone could make her so much more consistent.

Possibly, tho since they removed the vacuum, it may not be necessary anymore.
We'll see!

@Kiores said:
My favorite killer is The Hag, and I've played as her a lot, personally, I think she does not need a buff anywhere tbh
Sure, extra 4-8 meter teleport distance would be nice, except that the current range is almost too much already... 
Some speed would be nice then!? 
Except, she has more speed than necessary, she's not a chaser, if you actively chase survivors, you're playing her wrong (unless scarred hand... Which actually needs a buff)
Basically, she's very well balanced, and my favorite killer, one of the proper tactical killers, her only fault is the slight issue with add-ons
Which makes her better without add-ons than with, with the exception of Shackles and Heart. 
Tl;dr: if you as a Hag player thinks she needs a buff, reconsider your trap placements and playstyle, as there may be a few ways to improve c:

I have never seen anyone say the Hag is better without add-ons, I'm curious to exactly what you use and how you use her, I was a Hag main and she's still my favourite killer, yet since the emblem system came I've played her less than 20 hrs.
Every Hag needs the increased trap speed, if you're not using this then you are using progression slowing perks like Ruin,Dying light or even thanata lol.
If you're limited to one build for a Killer then that Killer is not balanced they're weak, as it is Killer needs Enduring, BBQ/Whispers, if you're playing with Ruin and defending your totem thinking that everything is great, but it's not.

The new Emblem system hurt Hag more than any killer, the focus mostly on Gens for lightbringer points means you have to get the maximum efficiency out of you traps before the first few Gens pop, you could say find someone then trap, but you already said she's not a chasing killer which is true.

Now this all depends on your play style, Remember the Hags base perks are totems, unless you have Mint rag she's the 2nd weakest character at protecting totems beaten out only by Freddy, unless against low ranks that don't know how to crouch.

Scarred hand is a Joke and only works against low ranks if even then, I love her add-ons, to me they are the best for any Killer created, not by power strength, but by uniqueness which no other killer can claim. I don't think the current state of my mind to her is anyway related to her power, she's not changed except her bugged phantasms, it's two emblems that are effecting this, Lightbringer and Gatekeeper.

But again alot of factors come into this, your playstyle and loadout, if you camp/tunnel then it has an effect too, if you run Ruin, NOED/MYC, M&A or even insidious (not needed with heart obviously) then again, you'll even think she's OP.

I don't know how to comment on your statements without sounding like a dick, but here I go.
1.You don't think she needs a buff, 4 traps to 2 gens seems like a decent trade.

2.You think the current teleport range is to much already? 32 metres, same distance as whispers, her heartbeat is now 24 metres same as nurses, before the buff it was 32 metres.

3.You say she has more speed than she needs, this is mind boggling you maybe want her same speed as the nurse?? this statement alone makes me think you're below rank 16. I've thought about this in terms of buffs, if they make her the same speed as other killers, would it really make her stronger, yes it would not for chases or anything like that, yet simply for applying pressure.

4. This statement I agree with if something isn't working try something else, don't long range camp and expect it to be an easy win, Hag is amazing at mind games, her downfall is that her traps offer nothing but points for survivors that trigger them, I've played Hag so many, many hours before the Emblem system and it was always hard work, but really enjoyable. But I've also had so many games where people will just destroy your traps on purpose or by accident and you're to far away to do anything about it and that was so much time wasted for nothing.

I personally feel that giving her a stronger effect on trap trigger would stop survivors trying to farm her in every match past rank 10, movement speed boost wouldn't hurt either.

Autoliny said:

@Kiores said:
My favorite killer is The Hag, and I've played as her a lot, personally, I think she does not need a buff anywhere tbh
Sure, extra 4-8 meter teleport distance would be nice, except that the current range is almost too much already... 
Some speed would be nice then!? 
Except, she has more speed than necessary, she's not a chaser, if you actively chase survivors, you're playing her wrong (unless scarred hand... Which actually needs a buff)
Basically, she's very well balanced, and my favorite killer, one of the proper tactical killers, her only fault is the slight issue with add-ons
Which makes her better without add-ons than with, with the exception of Shackles and Heart. 
Tl;dr: if you as a Hag player thinks she needs a buff, reconsider your trap placements and playstyle, as there may be a few ways to improve c:

I have never seen anyone say the Hag is better without add-ons, I'm curious to exactly what you use and how you use her, I was a Hag main and she's still my favourite killer, yet since the emblem system came I've played her less than 20 hrs.
Every Hag needs the increased trap speed, if you're not using this then you are using progression slowing perks like Ruin,Dying light or even thanata lol.
If you're limited to one build for a Killer then that Killer is not balanced they're weak, as it is Killer needs Enduring, BBQ/Whispers, if you're playing with Ruin and defending your totem thinking that everything is great, but it's not.

The new Emblem system hurt Hag more than any killer, the focus mostly on Gens for lightbringer points means you have to get the maximum efficiency out of you traps before the first few Gens pop, you could say find someone then trap, but you already said she's not a chasing killer which is true.

Now this all depends on your play style, Remember the Hags base perks are totems, unless you have Mint rag she's the 2nd weakest character at protecting totems beaten out only by Freddy, unless against low ranks that don't know how to crouch.

Scarred hand is a Joke and only works against low ranks if even then, I love her add-ons, to me they are the best for any Killer created, not by power strength, but by uniqueness which no other killer can claim. I don't think the current state of my mind to her is anyway related to her power, she's not changed except her bugged phantasms, it's two emblems that are effecting this, Lightbringer and Gatekeeper.

But again alot of factors come into this, your playstyle and loadout, if you camp/tunnel then it has an effect too, if you run Ruin, NOED/MYC, M&A or even insidious (not needed with heart obviously) then again, you'll even think she's OP.

I don't know how to comment on your statements without sounding like a dick, but here I go.
1.You don't think she needs a buff, 4 traps to 2 gens seems like a decent trade.

2.You think the current teleport range is to much already? 32 metres, same distance as whispers, her heartbeat is now 24 metres same as nurses, before the buff it was 32 metres.

3.You say she has more speed than she needs, this is mind boggling you maybe want her same speed as the nurse?? this statement alone makes me think you're below rank 16. I've thought about this in terms of buffs, if they make her the same speed as other killers, would it really make her stronger, yes it would not for chases or anything like that, yet simply for applying pressure.

4. This statement I agree with if something isn't working try something else, don't long range camp and expect it to be an easy win, Hag is amazing at mind games, her downfall is that her traps offer nothing but points for survivors that trigger them, I've played Hag so many, many hours before the Emblem system and it was always hard work, but really enjoyable. But I've also had so many games where people will just destroy your traps on purpose or by accident and you're to far away to do anything about it and that was so much time wasted for nothing.

I personally feel that giving her a stronger effect on trap trigger would stop survivors trying to farm her in every match past rank 10, movement speed boost wouldn't hurt either.

You see, the perks I use doesn't matter much Tbh, as I only use 2 of them, first one being BBQ, because I'm thirsty for bloodpoints and the 2nd one is Remember me, not because I need it, but as insurance to if they manage to power gates, I'll have enough time to set new traps up before gates are open.

My playstyle is capture the gens, where I trap sometimes up to 5 gens, which covers almost half the Map, if you trap the right side, depending on map, and then, I play the waiting game, doing minor patrols around the area until a trap pops, then I teleport and hit them, replace the trap, and then chase them a little, giving them a nudge so they run into the next trap, replace trap and proceed to hook
This style of playing works as far as I tried, up to rank 7-8, without any problems, and I've double pipped a few times as hag after emblem system, so I know it works. 

Note tho: her terror radius before patch was 28m
Making it 24 wasn't necessary, but it feels nice

Either way, perks I would recommend is M&A for smaller terror radius, Spies from the shadow, so you know where they go when they don't run into your trap
Some notes: I have not tried much in rank 1-5, but I have tried swf and better survivors after a rank reset, and it worked fine there, and I've also faced 2 guys with over 2k hours at once, and got 4 kills, 
Annnd, if you use enduring and brutal strength on Hag, it's wrong, as she's not meant to chase
And lastly, I'm normally playing survivor, and with that, I know how and where survivors go, thus placing traps there waaaay before hand works really well
A quote I go by: "Place traps where survivors WILL go, not where they MAY go" 

I think first they should give her some QoL adjustments to her teleport mechanic. The clear visual cut while teleporting, losing her momentum, makes her teleporting confusing sometimes. What might help would be a special Myers-long-launch-attack after a teleport, or something like that. But also a accelaration buff, after a teleport and making sure, that she always looks at the nearest survivor when porting.

Also the way her traps are triggerd should be rethought. It's kinda annoying, when a wildless running survivors can destroy your entire Trap placement within a short amount of time by triggering them. But don't know the best solution for that.

Besides that her AddOns need a lot of reworks and adjustments. Too many of them have penalties, her basic range should be increased (AddOns adjusted to that range). Speed AddOns probably should effect the entire setup Animation, etc.

And then her base speed should be looked at. I still think she shouldn't be a direct chaser, but needs a speedbuff. My personal solution would be that her movement speed would depend on the amount of traps she has placed. So 0 traps equals 115% and 10 110% or something like that. But making the speed change more of a curve then a linear change, so she is really fast, while she still has to setup her first 5 traps or so and get's slower afterwards. But her lunge should be always have the same (Trapper/Base) range and not be speed dependend.

That would be my thoughts.

She plays so well it is. It's all in the traps baby!

Master said:

I would love to see a really detailed hag guide, after the clown dissapointment I think I will give her a try when the vacuum is removed

No. Forget the vacuum. Plant traps around these pallet areas. Its best when you have alone time to do it, like at the start. 

Sometimes midchase i will plant on the opposite side between them and the pallet. They do usually run away but theyre still too close in order to lose me. Main thing is that their loop area has become a dangerzone.


Plant those traps!!! 

The Hag does not need an increase in speed, the whole point is to trap and end chases as quickly as possible. What I would appreciate as standard is slightly faster trap setting apart from that I have an absolute blast playing her.

@Soren said:

@Kiores said:
Annnd, if you use enduring and brutal strength on Hag, it's wrong, as she's not meant to chase

She's not meant to chase like casual killers, that doesn't mean she can't chase. You don't only patrol gens with Nurse, don't you? She's very strong at being offensive.

Mind you that Hag is not the nurse, she has lower speed that is meant to place traps
it's almost a horrible idea to waste time chasing survivors without having traps out to lure them into

As we know the hag's traps can also be set off with little worry sometimes if they are chasing another survivor. So to make her traps better and this would go along with her killer idea of hexes. Put some sort of status affect on survivors that activate the trap... currently I do not know what but i could be a decrease in actions for everything (excluding vaulting and throwing down a pallet of course) for lets say... 30-60 seconds and make it stack with every trap? I know what you are going to say. Woah man that is a lot of time. It yes that it but It gives the hag the time she needs to remake traps and keep gens down. But after the survivor is downed of course all those effects will be gone as that be pretty bad if you still were on cool-down after being hooked. Finally you might say well what if she makes me run into her trap? Well you are going to prob be downed anyway so it won't matter for long

@HIPSTERLION said:
Best buff : survivors can't crouch past traps !!!

Don't attack me it's just an idea

It used to be the case back then. But they changed it.
And I don't think that's a great idea anyway, as it would make her even stronger at camping than she already is, which is clearly not necessary.

@HIPSTERLION said:
I mean if you gonna camp some1 with the hag that's death sentence for them even now because survivor view will get interrupted if they activate a trap . but in fact the time that you play as hag normally and you don't even proxy camp survivors can legit unhook their friends while crouching and if the unhooked person holds the crouch button as well they can get away without activating a trap so at least if they could make it somehow so actions like unhooking , repairing , destroying totems causes the traps to pop up it would be really good and survivors wouldn't dare f@$# with her .

This would be WAY too strong. And it's coming from a Hag main. One trap already slows down a lot the rescues (= 2 survivors away from a gen, at least), and the Hag could be closer than they think and have enough time to come back to the hook (thanks to Monitor & Abuse).

Survivors should still have counters to a strong power. Especially when we talk about camping which is a playstyle devs don't want to incensitive too much.

She needs a rework, but not in her defensive playstyle which is already way too strong sometimes.

@Master said:

@Kiores said:

@RagingCalm said:
Hag is in desperate need of normal killer movement speed

She is not, the devs mentioned they tried to increase her speed within the office testing, and it would be too powerful, and I agree, I can imagine how strong she would be if she had the mobility of the strong killers and the power of teleportation traps at the same time
her movement speed is so that she can quickly make her way around to place traps, not to chase survivors around like a simple dofus, she's a strategist, not an offensive killer
I'd like to call it "Passive Aggressive", walk on her traps, and you die, leave her traps alone, and you won't get out

Nurse would still be more powerfull than hag at normal movement speed, but thats only my opinion

She is, but Nurse isn't perfect either. She is very weak to stealth - while Hag is not, because of her tiny size and terror radius -, and a well prepared Hag can also potentially be stronger during chases since some traps have simply no counter at all.

What Hag lacks is a way to patrol faster and to pressure gens while nobody is moving on the map, and she is weak against genrush (if you don't manage to invert the outcome of the game at one point and snowball, you lose), every mistake on your side may cost you the whole game. But hey, every killers need weaknesses!

@Flimflam said:
To all the hag player saying she's fine or same tier as nurse. I'm calling bullshit. If she's nurse tier than why does hag appear in less than 5 of marths entire depip squad series? why does billy and nurse dominate tournaments but no hag? If you have some magical playstyle that lets you dominate rank 1s and SWF then stream it or post it on youtube and you'll have a very large following, because I've yet to see a streamer that plays her anywhere remotely on the level that you're describing. Otherwise you're just blowing smoke.

Because :

• She was garbage at her release.
• People didnt notice she got heavily boosted.
• People cannot play her/care to play her most of the time. They do not even know you're not supposed to trap gens most of the time.
• Because she requires time and strategy, which is less fun than running brainlessly around the map with Billy & Nurse and be rewarded for it.
• Because she is not super quick paced, so she's less satisfying to play with for most people.
• Because she's behind a paywall.

Whatever tho, good Hag players do not need to brag about her being good because that's what is getting killers nerfed.

@Runiver said:

@Flimflam said:
To all the hag player saying she's fine or same tier as nurse. I'm calling bullshit. If she's nurse tier than why does hag appear in less than 5 of marths entire depip squad series? why does billy and nurse dominate tournaments but no hag? If you have some magical playstyle that lets you dominate rank 1s and SWF then stream it or post it on youtube and you'll have a very large following, because I've yet to see a streamer that plays her anywhere remotely on the level that you're describing. Otherwise you're just blowing smoke.

Because :

• She was garbage at her release.
• People didnt notice she got heavily boosted.
• People cannot play her/care to play her most of the time. They do not even know you're not supposed to trap gens most of the time.
• Because she requires time and strategy, which is less fun than running brainlessly around the map with Billy & Nurse and be rewarded for it.
• Because she is not super quick paced, so she's less satisfying to play with for most people.
• Because she's behind a paywall.

Literally none of those things would stop actual good players from finding out about and using a top tier killer in a tournament.

Whatever tho, good Hag players do not need to brag about her being good because that's what is getting killers nerfed.

Ah, so what you're saying is you have no proof, just more bullshit.

also I would like to note that the nurse has been hailed as an S tier killer since her inception and if anything her blinks got a buff recently.

Hag can get genrushed the easiest which is why she is not in the best position right now. She sets a few traps and one of two things happen. They either set off her traps with no consequence or they genrush her where her traps are only cover 3 gens on the map which is what people end up in calling the 3 gen strat. Personally I think for all killers genrushing is a problem but it hurts the hag the most. I am surprised no one has come up with the idea of maybe giving her a second ability like the pig has. Like maybe give her a passive that every survivor outside a certain range of the hag (of course further than her terror radius it too small) gets a small debuff to there abilities. It is just an idea but it could help with her being genrushed. The only other porblem is her traps pose almost no threat if you set off a bunch of them if you know you are in the safe zone (a.k.a. she is chasing another survivor).

She needed a buff, though, she's the strongest killer in the sense that's able to snowball the match really easily. Once she gets a hook in, I start to worry. Not everyone plays smart.

Oh, I consider the Nurse to be stronger than Hag for sure.
I just say she's strong, and top tier too. You wanted reasons, I give you reasons. Tho feel free to keep being offensive for no reasons whatsoever I guess
Shrugs

Your reasons are laughable. shrugs

Try playing a hag against any remotely decent teams and see how top tier she is. Her teleport speed is too slow to counter pallet loops. she barely counters vaults, and on multiple occasions playing her I've had survs be out of sight by the time I've teleported. She's trash tier. Not to mention that if the survs have any idea of where you put your traps you can lose minutes of setup while they trigger them if you pick someone up.

@Flimflam said:

Oh, I consider the Nurse to be stronger than Hag for sure.
I just say she's strong, and top tier too. You wanted reasons, I give you reasons. Tho feel free to keep being offensive for no reasons whatsoever I guess
Shrugs

Your reasons are laughable. shrugs

Try playing a hag against any remotely decent teams and see how top tier she is. Her teleport speed is too slow to counter pallet loops. she barely counters vaults, and on multiple occasions playing her I've had survs be out of sight by the time I've teleported. She's trash tier. Not to mention that if the survs have any idea of where you put your traps you can lose minutes of setup while they trigger them if you pick someone up.

I do play Hag at rank 1 about everyday, and I do face 3k hours legacy players that I consider to be "decent" at the game (if not pros).
Her teleport isn't too slow to counter loops.
Her teleport heavily counter windows.

You're just bad with her, sorry.

As I recall, the best Nurse in the game got thrashed by "Decent Teams" during Marth's experiment. So this point is moot.

Actually, There is at least one video of a nurse beating marths depip squad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XkXjJ0nprY&index=82&list=PLoJokCjX7gozpIVDM1qjmXSC7M1SXSP3C

Let me know when a hag does that.

You obviously don't play Hag enough to understand her nuances, and even if we provided proof (which you haven't said what kind of proof you wanted) I doubt you'd even entertain it since you're just an uninformed individual talking about something he doesn't know well enough about.

Your ignorance is forgiven.

Show me hag winning a dead by daylight tournament or hell even video a few rounds going against a team like marths depip squad. Oh right, she hasn't even appeared in any of the DBD tournaments that have been hosted. And if she were she would be stomped right out of them.

Keep being delusional guys.

@Flimflam said:
Actually, There is at least one video of a nurse beating marths depip squad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XkXjJ0nprY&index=82&list=PLoJokCjX7gozpIVDM1qjmXSC7M1SXSP3C

Let me know when a hag does that.

You obviously don't play Hag enough to understand her nuances, and even if we provided proof (which you haven't said what kind of proof you wanted) I doubt you'd even entertain it since you're just an uninformed individual talking about something he doesn't know well enough about.

Your ignorance is forgiven.

Show me hag winning a dead by daylight tournament or hell even video a few rounds going against a team like marths depip squad. Oh right, she hasn't even appeared in any of the DBD tournaments that have been hosted. And if she were she would be stomped right out of them.

Keep being delusional guys.

Besides, you show ONE Nurse game against Depip Squad while countless loses against them. She was probably very "lucky" this time

Every time I see a tournament, there are always strange rules ; the last one I saw, you cannot even choose the killer and your perks. Heh. And may I recall you she is the least played killer? Of course you have little chance to see her.

@Flimflam said:

I do play Hag at rank 1 about everyday, and I do face 3k hours legacy players that I consider to be "decent" at the game (if not pros).
Her teleport isn't too slow to counter loops.
Her teleport heavily counter windows.

You're just bad with her, sorry.

More words and no actual examples. Neat.

Every time I show examples to people, they are like "they were bad survivors". Even when we're talking about high rank survivors. Even when we're talking about 5000+ hours survivors. And I know for a fact you will say that as well - you already said before: "keep being delusional guys" WHILE YOU'RE TALKING TO HIGH RANK HAGS. Bruh. Just stop with that, it's embarassing. Whatever we'll show to you, you'll claim it was pure luck, or bad plays from survivors. Spoiler: survivors that lose against Nurse are probably bad as well, since Nurse is hard countered by stealth. Can't win a chase if you don't find anyone to start with.

So no, you'll have to find examples by yourself, and nope, TydeTime / Tru3Ta1ent aren't references. Don't want to show gameplay if it's for you to trash talk like any generic guy does when they have no argument and no experience either.

You could have asked us to review your gameplay, to help you to improve. But you just don't wanna admit you're not so good and instead trash talk about people that are in fact better than you with this character.