http://dbd.game/killswitch
There's no denying that hatch is a 2nd chance mechanic
We can debate all day about if it's fair or if it's a crutch, but see it for what it is: a 2nd chance. We talk about 2nd chance perks and stuff, but when you think about it, 2nd and 3rd chances are actually built into the core game.
How the survivors do on gens is irrelevant since it spawns no matter what, either when enough gens have been done or if there is just 1 survivor left. And people argue hatch is fair because a survivor can jump in, but not if the killer closes it first. That's the 2nd chance, and it's 100% RNG.
THEN for whatever reason, closing the hatch powers the gates, even if it was opened with a key. The killer can intercept the survivor opening the gate or they can't get there in time, and the survivor escapes. That's the 3rd chance. Therefore the initial defense of "But you can just close hatch!" is invalid, because even after that the survivor has a way out. Not to mention that the survivors could find another key and escape through it a 2nd time.
Can you kind of see why I want hatch removed? Killers have nothing like hatch, no 2nd chances built into the game. I don't want one either, because neither side should have that. Hatch is not skill-based. It's just something that exists for no good reason, and leads to a drastically different match result. If you want to defend it still, you must own that you're using a 2nd chance mechanic.
Comments
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"There's not denying that if hatch didn't exist, every 3k would be a free 4k for killers."
FTFY
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If you mean hatch is the 2nd chances, remember you have to 3K to make the hatch spawns.
Through that 3K, you may got 3 DS, 9 times of DeadHard, perhaps a few times of Borrow times mixed with an Unbreakable.
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Good thing the primary purpose of the hatch and EGC's current state is to put an end to a match in one way or another then. Its balance or who it favors is honestly a secondary concern, and if anything I like that it's kinda random.
Sometimes it spawns right in front of the survivor or the killer, just like sometimes you get two gates on the same wall vs Billy and sometimes you get gates on opposite ends of Red Forest or something. Either way it makes the match end faster which is the purpose of both mechanics.
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So you'd rather survivors holding the game hostage for hours?
Hatch is fine, and killers can also just facecamp at egc for a guranteed 1k.
If you hate it so much then slug for the 4k its not that hard
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Well, we can, easily. It was literally implimented to end games and prevent survivors from hiding for HOURS instead of doing gens alone.
The EGC/closing hatch changed how it works, but its implementation and entire purpose is to end games. Its not a second chance.
And if you think it is/get mad at hatch escapes, why? You won. They couldnt get out normally. Pips? Ranks? Thise dont actually matter, so again, you won. Soooo it's not a second chance because it doesnt affect the game as much as it ends it.
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If you got three kills [going with the idea that is the case and not randomly finding a key out of a chest and escaping by hatch that way], i think it's safe to say you won the game. Since three kills or four, outside of points, it doesn't matter. You are the victor. That and any points you might of not gain from killing the fourth person, can easily be made up by getting into another game sooner, rather than later.
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Hatch exists for two reasons if I’m not mistaken -
Before Hatch, the survivor would just hide and not open gates - generally because a killer could easily patrol each gate and not let the survivor escape.
Survivors can also be heavily punished by the actions of other survivors. What this means is - someone could be doing everything that they possibly can in their match and be left to be the last one standing - having hatch means that a killer isn’t rewarded for bad plays (by having the last survivor essentially being a free kill) and also gives the survivor a chance to still escape.
putting all of that aside - I’m pretty sure the hatch is killer sided as I’ve had plenty of times where I’ve been waiting on hatch and spamming the button to jump in - the killer comes by and magically shuts it right in front of me. Lol
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I read a post about the hatch not opening fast enough for the last survivor because it takes the whole ascension animation of the second last to open.
My idea for this would be something like a reduced opening timer in accordance to the number of already done gens. No gens done it favours the killer who dis a good job and the more gens are done the more rewarded is the last survivor. At 5 gens it should immediately open when the second last survivor is third time hook or the struggle timer runs out. When the seconds last gets mori' Ed it shouldn't matter since the killer stays in place for the animation.
And about the killer being able to close the hatch next to a survivor. I imagine that this should be theme based correct. A killer would normally just grab a survivor by his throat when he finds him and not let them escape. It is just that the game gives invincibility frames after a hit which made hatch standoff so ridiculous.
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i dont think killers that posts those kind of threads would run whispers(imo whispers users are smarter), so gl finding last blendette when she have to do gens to get out
and when you say hatch is 2nd chance so is EGC i cant count how many times i died to EGC because killer didnt had to break god pallet, he just have to keep me in place for 2 mins. Both sides have their late game 2nd chance
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So, let me ask you this: Do you want boring games that end after 2 minutes? Because in a lot of games someone dcs or hooksuicides early. Then, the game is basicly over for survivors, and they can give up, go afk or dc themself. The hatch is what keeps them going, because they might get it if everything else fails.
Otherwise, a SWF becomes a requirement to play the game, and i dont think thats a good thing for the majority of killers.
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This is survivor sided thinking.
You can remove the hatch and leave EGC in. This could prevent hostage games, such as you said. Even if the survivors don't do gens, EGC could start after a set timer. 20 minutes say?
Facecamping during EGC is far from a guarantee 1k. Survivors have a ton of perks capable of pulling off a rescue during a facecamp, unless its bubba.
The slugging statement is irrelevant. If you hate dying so much, get all the gens done and escape, would have about the same relevance.
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I think that's the wrong way to look at it
I see it more as a sudden death. The survivor that lasted the longest vs the killer at the climax of the match
Beats having to look around for 20 minutes cause the only option left for the survivor is to hide
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When i hear survivors telling killers to "just slug for the 4k" it makes.me.cringe because of the DOZENS of threads about how killers shouldnt be allowed to slug
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Oh for pete's bloody sake man, leave the hatch alone. I'm so tired of the whining about it at this point, its absolutely nothing compared to what it used to be and is one of the better balanced mechanics in the game now. Gate RNG can be super busted for survivors by stacking them right up next to each other, some killers can trap the doors. The Hatch can provide a last ditch hope for a survivor who's team got annihilated, just as closing the hatch can seal the game for the killer with a 4k
If you want to remove a "second chance mechanic" then we might as well remove the entire EGC as its existence is to provide the killer with one last chance at hooking survivors, is it not?
Everytime a killer or survivor complains about hatch/gate spawns being unfair to them in this game, at the same time there's multiple matches where its the opposite. RNG isn't friendly and is quite lame at times, but that's how it goes and honestly I'm fine with that
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So basically what's your point? All of these are simple counters to whatever you've been doing, and you've been hit with Decisive Strike 3 times in a match you really need to reassess your playstyle. Now Unbreakable with DS can be rather obnoxious I won't lie, but so is slugging builds and a bunch of other playstyles, addons, and perks in the game. You just have to learn how to adapt and counter it
What are you describing in this post however is playing the exact playstyle (with little variation from what I can tell) that these perks are supposed to stop that is the point of a counter
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You'd rather wait 20 minutes then get a 3k?
If Your smart enough then yes facecamping is a guranteed 1k
Hows the slugging statment irrelevant? You slug the third survivor and find the 4th, and get your 4k your so desperate for
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Only guranteed against bad survivors, or if you play bubba.
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Its not relevant to the discussion the OP made about the hatch is all. Slugging for a 4k could be a thing even without the hatch. Might merit discussion on its own thread, but not this one.
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Got hit at the wrong time? Don't worry bro we got you with Dead Hard
Got hit at all and no heals? Don't worry bro we got you with Iron Will
Made the wrong move and got spotted in the open? Don't worry bro we got you with Sprint Burst
Can't figure out how to safely unhook teammates? Don't worry bro we got you with Borrowed Time
Too bad to be able to properly run from the killer after being hooked? Don't worry bro we got you with both Dead Hard and Decisive Strike
Can't properly run loops? Don't worry bro we got you with infinites
Got a bad team? Don't worry bro we got you with hatch
Hatch isn't a 2nd chance mechanic, it's an 8th chance mechanic. There are more elegant ways to end the game that have been suggested than adding the hatch, and you can do it without giving survivors yet another chance to survive.
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Not guaranteed, just more likely
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Entitled killer main wants to have his free 4k. Nothing more to see here.
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Do you realize how many perks, offerings, and addons I can pull up on the killer side for this exact same thing. Knock it off with "survivors get billions of chances and we have nothing"
Everyone has fair perks, everyone has cheese, everyone has unfun stuff. I'm tired of the double standards
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Not many killer perks offerings and addons give you a second chance. Moris are rare, the 'second chance' killer perks are mostly trash, and addons largely just fix fundamental problems with the killers and the game. You also can't reliably run multiple 'second chance' killer perks because they are so inefficient. It is extremely viable and meta to run multiple exhaust perks on survivors, which are designed around being limited use.
Survivors get more chances to survive than killers get to kill. This is compounded by the fact that there are 4 of them. There is a point where you can become absolutely invulnerable to a killer as a survivor. You can be the best killer in the game and still get survivor teams that will wipe you consistently. The killer cannot be in 4 places at once and survivors are way stronger than what the balance should be, 25% of what the killer is. Individual survivors are closer to 50-75% of the strength of the killer.
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Really, you like whispers? I couldn't tell by your profile picture lol.
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Survivors get more chances to survive than killers get to kill.
And this is because the survivors DIE while the killer is immortal. The killer can be smacked with pallets over and over again, bm'd, and the like but we can't die. Its what gives us an advantage where as for survivors they can die on their first hook they need some forgiveness
This is compounded by the fact that there are 4 of them. There is a point where you can become absolutely invulnerable to a killer as a survivor.
A condition that has become more and more circumvented with changes made to certain killers such as Freddy (bt) and now even Pyramid head who can send any tormented survivor to the shadow-realm. Bypassing Decisive Strike and Unbreakable entirely unless they can get to a locker. Cheese strategies have always for every DS locker there's slugging, moris, exposed status effects, bamboozle, spamming Freddy traps to win a loop, and many more
You can make any side look despicable by not recognizing the full picture
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Spoken like a noob who doesn't know how to counter camping. And based on the upvotes, another 9 noobs reading the thread. A slugged survivor is just a less problematic version of a hooked survivor, but the killer saves some time by not hooking them. Either wait for the killer to leave before healing just like you should wait for the killer to leave before unhooking but don't because it's so easy to abuse unhook perks or just keep doing gens. You have double the timer of being hooked, no hook progression to make things any faster, and can move to convenient locations after healing to 99%. The fact that so many survivors are incapable of figuring this out is mind boggling.
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What are you talking about? this is about slugging for the 4k not just slugging mid game
Slugging for the 4k gives you tine to find hatch/the 4th survivor
And camping in egc is uncounterable if the killer is actually smart
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Cool story, not everyone plays freddy or pyramid head.
You're also forgetting the massive amount of bugs that make some killers almost unplayable that have been in the game and haven't been fixed. The devs have only just started to address gen speed issues and infinites. They completely broke the nurse. Spirit has had sound issues since she was released. Meanwhile if a perk like dead hard isn't working properly we get a fix within a week or two.
Moris are weaker than keys, you have to chase down each survivor and mori them, taking precious time. With key it's just about instant and all the survivors can reap the rewards.
You're actually not making any points here because what you have described is very easily countered by a survivor that is capable of some form of critical thought. I also find it amazing that you even bring up bamboozle. I might as well just have brought up spine chill self care and premonition in my original statement.
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It seems to me the Hatch is less a "Second Chance" and more of a "Last Chance". One that could very easily not work out depending on luck, such as if the hatch has even spawned to be located early.
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whispers is 2nd best killers perk (1st is bbq)
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Agree, BBQ is the best by far but in the meta for now I think it's 1.BBQ 2. Corrupt intervention/pop 3. Whispers.
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My only thing I think should change with the hatch is I think it should appear when the 3rd person dies. usually with my games Im chasing the 3rd guy and by the time he is hooked the last guy is already at the hatch waiting.. If it could spawn later hen its an equal shot of either one of us finding it before the other and they also got the doors to go out of also.
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Cool story, not everyone plays freddy or pyramid head.
Cool story, not every SWF is using voice chat or meta perks.
You're also forgetting the massive amount of bugs that make some killers almost unplayable that have been in the game and haven't been fixed.
Bugs are not an imbalance they are a broken element that needs to be fixed, both sides have their fair share of bugs
The devs have only just started to address gen speed issues and infinites. They completely broke the nurse. Spirit has had sound issues since she was released. Meanwhile if a perk like dead hard isn't working properly we get a fix within a week or two.
Not sure how only spirit is afflicted by sound issues and others aren't. Unless you are talking about when she is using her power of course which I don't believe is a bug.
There aren't anymore infinites left in the game ya silly fool. What you call an "infinite" is nothing compared to what we once had to deal with. If you call survivors using map knowledge and loops to their best advantage an "infinite" you've missed the point of the game
Moris are weaker than keys, you have to chase down each survivor and mori them, taking precious time. With key it's just about instant and all the survivors can reap the rewards.
Oh yes of course. The ability to remove a survivor from the game after one hook state is obviously "weaker" then an item that requires the game to either already be finished, the survivor team being slaughtered and a certain amount of gens done. On an individual and team-wide basis Moris are utterly broken, and if we complain about keys being unfair to an individual killer I find the general disregard of the individual survivor to be quite hypocritical and hilarious. Moris and Keys are equally bad game design, though Moris have become even worse. A killer can knock a key out of a survivor's hands with Bubba's perk, they can see survivors equip it in the pre-game lobby, they can focus the survivor down. Whereas Killers can bring a mori and suffer no downside the survivors don't know the killer has it until the game has started and the mori cannot be denied. A key may never come into play with all these conditions, but a mori is ALWAYS going to come into play
But "Moris too weak I have to do work"
You're actually not making any points here because what you have described is very easily countered by a survivor that is capable of some form of critical thought. I also find it amazing that you even bring up bamboozle. I might as well just have brought up spine chill self care and premonition in my original statement.
You brought up Dead-Hard as this "god-tier" spam perk which survivors can use to win loops they couldn't. But when I bring up Bamboozle a perk with no cool-down, ends vault loops completely and fits that same criteria as DH you go and downplay it and bring up bloody *detection perks*
Just goes to show how entitled and willingly hypocritical the killer player-base has become. You guys wouldn't have lasted back in 2018
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So does that mean RBTs, iridescent add-ons, and styptics are toxic second chances too huh?
Primary objective is irrelevant huh?
You have hatch FOMO, so you you think nobody should be able to hatch?
Sounds like you need to open up to new gameplay styles tbh
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So then let's say that of the 4 survivors, one is really good and experienced. BY CHANCE you find one of the other 3 survivors first (high chance BTW) and catch them quickly. The other two foolishly rush in to save and they all end up trading hooks. Meanwhile, the 4th skilled survivor is doing what they should be doing, gens, and then when you find them after the other 3 are dead they run you for 5 minutes (let's just assume hatch doesn't exist). Did you really win?
No you got lucky that you didn't run into this survivor first. If you did, then several of them would have likely escaped as they would have finished several gens during that chase. Furthermore, it's stupid to punish the good survivor for having bad survivors in their group. They can't control that.
If you got a 3k you got a 3k. Period. You didn't get a 4k for getting a 3k. You should have to earn each and every kill.
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If you kill 3 survivors you've earned the right to kill the 4th a whole lot more than that 1 survivor earned the right to escape. It is a team game after all, and hatch opening generally signifies you losing. But the reason it exists is to not make a game last forever and to give them a chance of escape, you know? It's just something that has to exist because they didn't find a better way to handle it.
I would imagine someone will tell me they did all 4 gens, made every save, and looped the killer for 10 gens so they did earn it, though. Every game, and everyone always does this so they earned it.
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In a worst case scenario for the last two Survivors, they need to complete three generators in order for the hatch to spawn. There is almost no chance that a Killer won't find at least one of them before then.
This unfortunately stems from a vocal minority of Killer that believe if they've killed three survivors, then they deserve the fourth kill.
Fortunately or unfortunately, however you view it, the game ain't over til it's over. End Game Collapse is not set match. Really can't stress how this mindset needs to be reinforced to all players. EGC is not game over, it's the final countdown. The hail mary pass, the last ditch effort.
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Agreed so many players on both sides blame the GAME or worse the other players rather then themselves when they lose. Its a horrible entitled mindset that ultimately leads to stagnation. Its why everyone is so angry all the freaking time
Also I made this
I think it fits pretty well
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You don't need the hatch it can be safely removed.
Let the killer open the gate at any time to trigger EGC doing so powers the second gate.
This is to prevent hostage matches.
The only other argument I've seen in this thread is GG EZ 4K free win.
To that I say... the killer played very well to kill the first 3 without hatch... so why would adding the last be any different? Gens escape then Hatch and then powered gates 3 different shots to escape... nah they don't need it they needed to help there team live longer and work more effectively and anyone who lets 3 teamates die should go down with the ship. You just want a free escape (that you worked nothing for. No teamsave or gen)
While the killer no matter what never gets a "free kill" and always has to find-chase-hit-down-hook
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Hatch exists to end the game. Without it games could last indefinitely if the survivor decides not to go for the door or the last gens and just hide. It actually exists to protect killers from being taken hostage.
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The reason why survivors have hatch and second chances are because they're the survivors, their mistakes carry more weight than the killer.
And you are also forgetting that the survivors are playing a whole different game than you. They have to play as a team while you can play by your own rules. Sometimes when I play killer, I'll encounter a really good survivor who could loop me for days, but their teammates werent as experienced so chases ended quickly with them, survivors like that deserve to have a shot at escaping after a clown fiesta like that. Their teammates played bad and now they dont get to escape even though their own wit and skill got them that far.
I swear, complaints on this game are gonna get so out of control that the devs will start implementing them. I recently saw a thread about nerfing vault speed build, you wanna nerf a 2 perk slot chase combo for what? These complaints seem to come from a handful of killer mains, most killers don't even have issues with these things it's just y'all lol.
escapes arent guaranteed, and neither are 4ks, that's just the game.
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Preach. But put NOED or a mori on and you're the worst person who ever lived.
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No.
Remove the hatch and the game gets held hostage because survivors just hide until the killer gives up. hatch was implemented to prevent this.
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That's what I'm saying! Nobody else understands that it's a team game. Any other team game in the world does not have hatch because the game would be laughed out of the stores. And people defend hatch to the death, never once considering an alternative mechanic. Hatch is so bad, and if it's gonna take a replacement mechanic for people to be comfortable with it being removed, I'm fine with that. But as it is, it's a ######### endgame mechanic.
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Nah, I've gotta be a notoriously well known 100% Killer around here by now and I LOVE hatch. The tension of the chase and the rush of stopping them definitely outweighs the occasional escape.
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I think killer should be able to open the gates any time during the match, not just when the last gen is done. That's how you do anti-stall, devs. And you hit the nail on the head when you say "3 survivors without hatch is fine, but the 4th needs it?". That's one of my biggest arguments. The game gets down to 1 survivor, and they get a chance at a free escape? If that's so fair maybe hatch should just be open the whole game! It's literally skipping the generator AND door objectives. But they argue that "killers didn't kill all 4 survivors before the 5th gen", but using their other point "the 5th gen isn't the end of the match" they debunk themselves. But they defend hatch to the death. There's no convincing these people.
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If anything, the hatch enables the game to actually come to an end. Otherwise, a lone survivor would not be able to complete the final gen AND open the exit gate without being spotted by the killer.
Least the hatch gives them a chance to escape since it is RNG based.
While I do believe keys need to be looked at (least when it comes to more than one survivor escaping), calling the hatch a "crutch" or second chance mechanic is entirely incorrect.
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Unfortunately for you, the hatch mechanic will never be removed from the game. You can accept that fact and take a 3k as the victory it is, or you could waste your time writing personal essays about why it shouldn't exist. Those are your only two choices :)
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It's a second chance by nature, because it isn't the exit gates. It can even open when no gens have been done. But I get it. Hatch is a flawless jewel of a mechanic.
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They could just let the killer open the gates no matter how many gens have been done, but the silly devs would never even think of that.
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