Getting rid of both keys and moris?
I know this will be an argument waiting to happen before I even post it but I believe it would be fair for both sides if we got rid of both keys and moris.
Both of these can be very toxic and neither are fun to play against. I've contemplated in my head to maybe alter them both (Mori on last hook only and both can only be used once in the whole game) but I feel it would be fairer and more fun to get rid of both.
I'm aware that the defense for keys will be trash teammates or a OP killer trashing while the defense for mori will be gen rushing.
However, surely if we work as a gaming community to try and make the game less toxic we wouldn't have a need for either to be in the game.
Comments
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I agree there op and need to be removed but there not "toxic"
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I probably worded it wrong, I don't mean they themselves are toxic but I've seen plenty of people be toxic with both of them.
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For ebony mori: Make it so that you can only kill survivors once you have hooked them all at least once
For keys: Simply change it to something else, or make it so that the action of opening the hatch takes time, at least 10 seconds and the killer gets a notification.
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I wouldn't call either of them toxic. However, I do think they both need reworks as they are too strong. I don't believe that simply removing them entirely would be the answer. They can be salvaged.
I think mori is an easier fix. Simply make it require hooking all survivors 1 time instead of each survivor once before they can be mori'd.
For keys maybe make it require more gens and only open the hatch for that 1 person, instead of the entire team. This one I'm not too sure on.
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Keys need a buff, but need the "unlocking" mechanic to be removed and turned into addons instead.
I Love using Blood Amber and Prayer Bead keys without having to waste them on locks.
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Keys are unfair even to survivors.
if 1 guy escapes at 1 or 2 gens left, whoever is left behind gets completly f*cked.
And as of rn with the "plunderers instincts meta" (thx for the search chests challenge) keys are found A LOT.
numbers based on the wiki : with PI u have over 10% chances of finding a purple or pink key in a chest. 3 chests per trial, more if u brought a coin
every other game someone takes the hatch and screws his mate(s)
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Here's my thoughts on this issue . . .
The issue with moris (to me) is the tunneling that almost always accompanies them. Moris need to require that another person be hooked between the mori'ed survivor's hook and mori kill. In other words, if the mori allows the killer to kill a survivor who has been hooked and you get hooked, then the killer would have to hook someone else before he can mori you. That would at least prevent you from being tunneled unless you are farming or deliberately trying to get the killer's attention.
The issue with keys (to me) is killers feeling like it's unfair and/or solo survivors getting screwed by their fellow survivors abandoning them. To fix that, I would recommend that keys ONLY work when one survivor remains alive and the rest are gone (beit dead or escaped). Then, the killer could choose to patrol gates and hatch or not.
Beyond that, we could change it so that you can't bring in a key, but you can find them in chests and they are lost when the match ends. That way the odds of seeing them would be lower and you wouldn't get tunneled for entering with one. I'd be okay with that additional change if we could get a minimum distance between exit gates that is actually doable for a survivor to escape. With so many invisible, terror radius-less, teleporting, trapping killers, escaping EGC is rough, but if the gates had to always be at least a reasonable distance apart, I could see it being more fair. The killers would still have the advantage in that situation especially if they have traps or teleports, but it would maybe balance it out a bit.
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I barely bother with moris myself since all it does is heavily stack the odds in my favor, and I tend to do just fine on an even playing ground. That being the case... id say keep the yellow moris around. They really dont alter gameplay at all and lets us see the cool mori animation. Feel like those are fun for both sides.
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Nah. Keys aren’t broken because if there’s 4 people the hatch doesn’t spawn until EVERYTHING is done. At that point you should have the doors opening already, and you want that achievement for everyone escaping via hatch. I feel that keys are for solo players like myself. If the trial turns south I’m escaping one way or another. Bye-bye! It adds realism when you’re the one left behind. I’m always like noooo!!! Sometimes the killer even opens the door because they realize you were abandoned. You should be use to being abandoned almost immediately if you played Left 4 Dead 2. I’d leave you so quick and run entire stage myself. Because of that I always selected the rifle to save people from afar.
Eboni Mori? It needs a rework, not a removal. Make it so that you can only kill your obsession after hooking them, but when you do the obsession changes instead of you just losing your obsession. That way the killer can’t just Mori the first person they find UNLESS they pick Ivory Mori which lets them kill just ONE survivor after hooking them. Either that, or make Eboni kill up to TWO survivors. Killing anyone after a single hook seems a bit extreme, but when you see 2-3 gens done after one good chase because you didn’t run Corrupt Intervention... You’ll want Mori on all the time. Lol
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I say keep both how they are.
Coming from a 50/50 player.
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First of, when i run plinderers instinct and the hatch appears with one or 2 gens left, then i go find the other survivors and escape with them together.
On the other hand, i had a game yesterday where i saved 1 guy from a hook, and another one was still hooked. The killer caught me, hooked me, went away (the unhooked survivor was near me) and he did...nothing. He let us two on the hook die, to then go and search for the hatch. no key needed to screw over his teammates.
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With the release of a 2nd killer who can execute with power/ability, it's pretty clear that Moris are going to be more accessible.
There's likely something in the works for survivors and more key accessibility.
It's pretty clear they're here to stay for forever.
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I agree with you that both Key's and Mori's need to be changed. I wouldn't say that is necessarily removal from the game. Honestly I wouldn't care if they changed moris so that they could only be used after second hook. For key I'm not sure what to do as I don't really find myself playing with/ against them often enough. I would say add a short 5ish second timer to opening the hatch, and notify the killer when the hatch opening starts.
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Keys, Moris, NOED/Adrenaline and overall fundamental game balance should all be adjusted IMO. You can probably toss in insta hatchets as well.
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Yes but you also have nearly a 90% chance of finding anything else, including a broken key. It's a 2 in 16 chance of getting a key. Or a 14 in 16 chance of getting anything else.
Let's not conflate the odds to serve an agenda.
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I don't find NOED/Adrenaline a problem, adrenaline is situational and a decent counter to NOED is do the totems. It's a punishment of sorts for gen rushing without taking care of totems.
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i'm not changing anything man. the chances are NOT equals to find any given item and if u think they are clearly u've never ran this perk. Go to the wiki and do the math : u have a 14% chances of a key, minus 3,6% of green key = over 10% chances of finding a purple or pink key with PI
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My two cents from yesterday's mori/keys poll thread:
I think that, of all the character build options available in the game, keys and moris are the most pernicious because they completely move the goalposts of the game, in ways that other build options do not.
A mori means that at least one survivor "life" is flat-out removed from the game. In my (anecdotal) experience, a mori usually winds up being a red one, and that removes four survivor "lives," reducing them by a full third (from 12 total to 8 total). This would be the rough numerical equivalent of telling the killer that survivors only have to repair 3 generators + the exit gate (if we're counting the exit gate as a sixth objective).
A red or purple key means that at least one survivor has a decent chance of finding the hatch early and orchestrating an escape that the killer cannot reliably play around. I believe that the key is less of a problem than the mori, since it can potentially be lost and it is subject to some measure of luck, but it also (mostly) rewards poor play, because a key-based exit is usually most likely only after multiple survivors die.
Dead by Daylight is -- by nature of its 146 perks, 19 killer powers, 18+ survivor items, 71 offerings, and god knows how many add-ons, all multiplied by 5 players, plus 34 maps -- a giant roulette wheel in every individual match. There's a lot of randomness to it, and some of the options are going to be harder to deal with than others, depending on the combinations that you get. But there is nothing that circumvents the game's internal rules and objectives as directly as these do.
Moris could be fixed overnight by limiting their use to only dead-on-hook survivors; it would essentially save the killer the trouble of hooking them a third time. I dunno how you fix keys, though.
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And yet you still have nearly a 90% chance to find literally anything else, including a broken key.
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