Is pyramid head's one shot being removed?
Comments
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what one shot?
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Using his ranged ability you can hit survivors twice, making it effectively a one shot in certain situations.
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It's probably the same "double hit bug" that once occured with Huntress during another PTB so it's not actually being removed as it isn't really a legit thing in the first place. It's just a PTB bug/glitch.
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Definitely a bug and will be fixed before live
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Most likely, they have confirmed that it's a bug and they're aware of it, I doubt they will turn it into a feature.
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Lmao
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Well that's a pity, it would have added higher skill celling to him.
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I find it sad that it's getting removed, because honestly it's extremely hard to pull off, but so satisfying when you do. The only times most people actually hit with it are either when they've cornered a survivor, or when they are literally touching the survivor with their character model while the survivor vaults. Out in the open is only possible if the survivor doesn't realize what you are doing or why you are riding them so close, and a quick 90 degree turn puts a stop to it every time. Because of the skill and effort needed to actually make use of it, I believe it should stay as a feature for him. Just like the bug that removed Shapes "Sting" sound effect that warned survivors he was stalking them, once that bug happened, everyone agreed it made things better for him overall, and it ended up becoming a feature for him.
Also it's not like he's the only killer who can 1 shot a cornered survivor. LF and Billy are obvious, but Plague and Trapper can do it too with their base kits, hell even Huntress can pull off a very quick 2 hit combo on a cornered survivor if she leads with a hatchet, and Clown can do it with his ultra rare add-on, so its not like Pyramid Head becomes any more OP with it compared to the others.
I say we make a petition to let him keep it, as it's both very situational or extremely difficult to pull of, only puts him closer in line with mid - high tier killers, and makes him scarier while not outright broken.
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Post edited by TWiXT on16 -
agree. It raises his skill expression. Maybe it could be iri add-on.
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Crazy thought - it is so extremely hard to pull off because it is not intended to pull it off at all.
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He still will be able to hit grouped survivors like Bubba though with his ranged attack?
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I detect sarcasm, but there's no /s to prove it. Otherwise, why not let him have it? Intentional or not, it's difficult to pull off and highly situational. Most casual players won't get a chance to use it except once in a blue moon, and even veteran players have trouble with it. Just watch this vid from Tru3:
If it exists, and only gives a small advantage in very rare situations, then what harm is there? If it bugged his ranged attack to 1 shot every time, then I'd say remove it, but because it comes with so many situational preconditions... It seems fine. Hell at one point in the video, Tru3 even admits that knowing it exists makes you want it, and thus play bad. I'm not sure survivors would be against it if that's the case.
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Will there be any othee changes to Him?
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You write it is hard to pull off. What I mean is that it is hard to pull off because it is not intended to do so. It was never planned and because of this it is difficult to do.
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Doesn't it only work when you're right up on them? That doesn't feel very skillful to me personally.
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I also think he should keep the oneshot, especially if it's that difficult to pull off since it's easily avoidable if the survivor just turns sharply. An instadown fits well with him character wise anyways.
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How many killers in this game do you know that have to be right on you to pull off a 1 shot down?
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@Aven_Fallen nobody is arguing that it was intended we are arguing that it should stay. It's not uncommon for a bug to slip through and a developer leave it in because its fun. This bug literally only adds to his kit and his skill ceiling making for more interesting gameplay and more room for skill growth.
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Yes it's not intentional, but does that originating rationale make it worth removing? Fact is that yes, it is a bug, but BHVR have had bugs before that actually made thing better (i.e. the Shape example). Honestly I don't see the harm in this particular bug, or why it actually should be removed because of the nature of how difficult it is to pull off.
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Yes, fixing bugs is a good thing. If it's not intentional, it can't be changed intentionally. It might break something (or be broken when something changes).
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It shouldn't be oneshot. It's a powerful tool in the right situation. It's basically a short range huntress hatchet with slightly wider range that makes for an easy hit whenever a survivor is in an animation (pallet / window). That's when you use it. It's a free hit then.
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I'm with you on fixing unintentional bugs in general since they usually make things worse, but in this instance... where is the harm?
- if a survivor gets cornered by the Executioner (Pyramid Head) it's a guaranteed instant down
- If the survivor is Vaulting an object while The Executioner is literally touching them and his power is active, it's an instant down.
- If the survivor is being chased in the open by The Executioner who has his power active while touching them, and they don't pull a 90 degree turn or a 180/360 turn at the moment he strikes, it's an instant down, However if they do evade, he gets 4 seconds of slowdown giving them 16 meters of distance from him. (4 seconds x 4 meters per second running speed = 16 meters).
So, while it is an unintentional bug, how much more powerful does this make him compared to other killers in the roster? Is it a game breaking bug? Does it give him unequaled or an Over Powered advantage over his opponents? Or does it put him more in line with killers that already exist in the game?
I'm all for squashing bugs, but this feels more like a "Happy little accident" - Bob Ross, comparatively.
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I'm looking at it from a programming perspective, not talking about balance at all. The harm is in having a piece of code that isn't doing what you want for an unknown reason, and is therefore unpredictable. It's like having a robot that's supposed to get you a glass of water when you ask it, but instead it crosses the street. Sure, there's no harm being done, but maybe when you ask it for a glass of juice it'll beat up your grandma instead.
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...you want to give him iri hatchets baseline in his kit? Like, for real? And yes, it's like iri hatchets because when a huntress has them, she tries to get as close as possible to the survivor so she doesn't miss.
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Because your grandma was a Nazi? I don't follow...
All reaming/joking aside, again I bring up the Shapes unintentional bug: Originally when shape stalked you over a certain percent, as a survivor you would hear a Sting sound notification. From 1.5 seconds - 7 seconds you can hear this audio effect in the following video:
An update happened a few months after this release which removed that sound bite. Afterwards, the bug was praised for making him actually better because it made survivors look around more, and made the atmosphere against him much more intense. Given that he is a Tall killer with a bright white mask, its wasn't seen as a problem and the Devs let that bug remain as a feature for him.
The Executioner "1 shot down" (really a rapid 2 shot) is a similar bug in my opinion, in that it only makes him slightly more intense to go up against, but unlike Shape, requires more skill and a degree of luck in order to actually pull off. I've already mentioned other killers in the roster that can do the same given the circumstances, but one thing I neglected to mention is that none of those other killers have to actually be touching the survivors with their character model to pull off their 1 shot downs. If anything, this makes him still weaker than the others in the roster.
So why not implement this bug as a feature for him instead of simply squashing it?
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This comment makes me feel like you've never actually played Huntress... Up-close hatchet hits are actually much harder than ranged, especially if you are touching the survivor. If an Iridescent head Huntress only used them against you at close/touching range, and nailed the hit every time, I actually commend them on pulling it off.
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I can usually tell when it's an iri huntress because they get in real close before they use it. Maybe not quite touching, but really close. Lunge range for sure.
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You're right, there are others and some of them must get as close to down them cough chainsaws.
IDK, I guess since he has a ranged attack if just feels dumb to turn it into a chainsaw. It feels more rewarding and skillful to hit them twice with Punishment rather than just walk up to them and get it in one hit.
Certainly more effective that way tho.
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When I play with iri Hatchets I find it easier to nail targets at mid range than close, and hate it when they are so close I touch them because more often than not I waste a hatchet. Perhaps that's what you've been going up against; Players like me that want you in mid range. But I swear if you simply hug that huntress up close and keep them turning to try and make the hit, you will more often than not win against their hatchets.
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Because of power budgetting.
Each Killer (or perk when appropriate) can only have so much strength in their kit. While a Killer can get more strength with more skill, this progression eventually tops off and if that top is too strong then it becomes a problem.
Basically, when looking at a power like this (the instant down portion) we first evaluate it while only looking at the successful uses. This is because failed uses are identical to if that aspect of the power didn't exist, and thus doesn't really help us except in that it provides a point of comparison.
So the scenario is that we have a Killer who's power is:
- If the Survivor preforms a vault/drop action and the Killer predicts it the Killer deals 1 damage to them
- If the Killer predicts the Survivors movement while LoS is broken he can deal 1 damage to them
- The Killer can create a path that if the Survivor tries to loop through torments them, saving time on a hook later, and reveals them.
- If the Killer is point blank and successfully presses M1 after a 1 second channel without the Survivor predicting it, then the Survivor is dealt 2 damage
- If the Survivor preforms a vault/drop action and the Killer predicts it and is point blank the Survivor is dealt 2 damage.
Note that Several things are ignored here for the sake of a "balancing around the top" mentality. For example ranged attacks with no vault don't matter, because unless you are point blank the Survivor can always dodge the attack on pure reaction, no prediction is needed and thus the option is a guaranteed failure and will never be used unless someone is being suboptimal.
The last 2 bullet points are the ones produced by the bug. Taken in isolation they aren't OP by themselves, however that's really not the issue. The issue is that those last 2 powers are being combined with the first 2.
Being able to get a hit at strong pallet and window loops is a big deal in this game, and is a decently strong power by itself. The cage mechanic rounds it out allowing for out of LoS hits to happen more frequently.
However, the instant down is ALSO nearly strong enough to qualify as a power on it's own. Heck, it's called leatherface. If we gave leatherface the tormented mechanic he would be a pretty good Killer.
If your argument for why it's fine is only that it's hard, then that really is no justification at all. Hard mechanics are used by less people, and for those people it may as well not exist, and for the people that do use it the balance implications are independent of whatever arbitrary amount of effort they happened to put in.
For example skill checks on gens needed to be nerfed because the people that were able to hit them consistently were completing gens too quickly. The exact number of people who were hitting the skill checks isn't relevant, only that when they did it becomes a problem.
It's the same deal here. It doesn't matter how frequently the instant down lands, the issue is that if and when it does land it's problematic due to putting too much power into a single kit.
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Chainsaws don't have to get in touching distance to down, only 1.5 meters away at most. Trapper can't unless he corners them, Plague can't unless she corners them but unlike trapper she gets a whole meter of distance to down them due to the basic attacks base range. Shape in EW3 gets an extended lunge allowing him to insta down after 2 meters, Clown has to directly hit them with a bottle first before striking them with his basic attack, and Huntress as per her base kit has to hit them with a hatchet before following up with a basic attack (which in a cornered scenario happens only slightly slower than PH's 2 hit combo).
Ask yourself how often do you feel like this "1 shot down" is going to be used against you? Is it any more than Billy, or LF? Is it any less than Plague or Trapper? Does Clowns add-on need to be nerfed as well?
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Part of me understands what you are saying (the "survivor encountering a new killer" part), but otherwise, I'm not seeing how it's anywhere overpowered in comparison to the killers we already have in the game. If anything, the ability to 1 shot in very specific circumstances, is less likely than the rest of them. You mentioned Leatherface, but unlike LF, The Executioner (Pyramid Head) has to literally be touching the survivors, whereas LF can be 1 meter away at his powers activation and still hit them. Your last 2 points:
- If the Killer is point blank and successfully presses M1 after a 1 second channel without the Survivor predicting it, then the Survivor is dealt 2 damage
- If the Survivor preforms a vault/drop action and the Killer predicts it and is point blank the Survivor is dealt 2 damage.
These are highly rare and situational times in a match. Both of which being that the killer is literally touching the survivor point blank. Other killers like Billy and LF don't have to be that close to pull this off, and as for cornered survivors Trapper, Plague and Huntress don't have to be touching them either to get an instant down. I get that it's a new killer, and that a bug allows them to pull off a move that they weren't intended to, but due to how difficult it is to pull it off, and the fact that other killers do it better without having the "touching distance" precondition, why is this a bad thing?
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The point is that difficulty is irrelevant. At any given moment he will either do it or he won't, and the question only matters when the answer is "yes he does".
And a Killer that both saves a ton of time on hooking, has a ranged attack, has an attack that travels through walls, has a tracking ability AND has a base kit instant down on top of all of those things is a problem. It exceeds his power budget.
Basically all you really need to do is note the following:
1: If you ignore the instant down bug, the Killer right now is balanced or at least close to balanced
2: Even a single instant down is a meaningful power increase
3: Therefore, the Killer with the bug being used is a balanced Killer plus a meaningful power increase
4: A balanced killer plus a meaningful power increase is an overpowered Killer.
5: Thus the bug when utilized makes him an overpowered Killer
We aren't actually evaluating him like this because people are not utilizing the bug. But regardless of how difficult it is, people are going to utilize it and he will be overpowered when you do.
The reason this isn't a problem with perks such as haunted grounds is because perks have a power budget of their own separate from the Killers power which accounts for where the power spike can afford to come from.
This is also why mori's are so insanely overpowered. They take a slot that has a power budget of nearly 0, but is extremely impactful, thus it massively exceeds it's power budget. Contrast Tombstone Myers which takes a much more valuable addon slot, or Devour Hope which takes the even more valuable perk slot.
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You don't mind if I use this or your other comments in my Petition to let him keep this ability do you? I'm writing it at the moment, and I want to get both sides arguments and let the community decide who to side with.
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Of course not. Go for it
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It's similar to a perk that read "0.1% of the time, at the start of the match all Survivors are sacrificed."
It doesn't matter if it literally happens one in a thousand games, that perk is crap and needs to go. Same thing with this one shot. It feels bad to be randomly one shot for no reason other than "lol you were touching the killer."
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For me, Im willing to take that 1 shot down, but his cool down after that range attack should be longer, I mean that attack goes through walls. Should be punished for missing (does it only affected on survivors with torment status though?)
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you haven't seen it in action though. It's stupid hard to pull of and if the survivor turns at all, you won't get the one shot. It's not effective,. it's a waste of time unless you corner a survivor.
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That's what I assumed but I haven't seen in action repeatedly yet. If it's only working in situations like that than there's no real reason to keep it.
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uh, no. It's cool and it does provide a bit of utility when you do corner a survivor.
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If you're relying on this 1-shot you're probably wasting way too much time chasing them without lunging or using your ranged attack while trying to get right up on them.
And if you aren't relying on it, think of from a survivors perspective how cheap and unsatisfying that would feel? He can't do anything but run after you into a corner and is now rewarded sometimes with a free 1-shot. It's not very consistent or fair gameplay wise.
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You guys should make it a mechanic, upon reviewing many videos, Pyramid Head does have it's sharp side of the knife towards the survivor, it should be a mechanic and not a bug, this kind of thing is fine because the way the animation is made, seems like it should have it's one hit if hit correctly.
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I mean if you let yourself get literally cornered by a killer during a chase, you're kinda a doofus. It has nothing to do with being "consistent" and it is extremely satisfying for the killer. The only places I've seen it pulled off are on entirely cornered survivors who can't move, survivors that run in a literal straight line when pyramidhead is immediately behind them, and on survivors slow vaulting windows right next to him. It is consistent in the situations it can be used, but they are few and rare. As for whether it's satisfying to the survivor, who gives a #########. I doubt survivors find being grabbed or instadowned by ghostface satisfying. I doubt they find getting chainsawed satisfying.
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