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Survivors want to play against good Killers
It's just true. Almost all Survivors want to be chased and have a challenging match. Especially at high ranks.
Doing gens and escaping isn't the fun part of this game. It's being pressured and feeling like the match could go either way. Having stressful chases and amazing clutch moments. Survivors might complain a lot, but they really do want good Killers. Not campers, no ed users or babies that don't even resemble a challenge.
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True.
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No, you can’t say that here.
survivor only want ez escapes. So, fixed that for you.
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Yeah, I second this.
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If that was truly what survivors wanted, why are they always crying for nerfs, and crying when one of their OP perks gets nerfed? Why was there hysteria when people realized triangleface countered DS and BT?
Survivors don't want to face good killers. They want to FEEL like they are facing good killers, so when they win, they feel like they accomplished something.
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"We want good killers, but not killers that use strategies we don't like if they help them to win."
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Except when killers chase survivors, they're accused of "tunneling". Which is it, do survivors want to be chased or not?
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Yep. Also if survivors want to go up against good killers don't drive them off by being fucksticks that tbag and whatnot.
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They want interaction. Most Killers things that get complained about feel like there's no counterplay. Or they're just boring like slugging where you sit on the floor for a long time doing nothing.
Examples are like Spirit, Deathslinger and Freddy. The Survivor could play as well as possible and still lose simply because of the Killer's power mechanics not being outplayed.
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You didn't honestly just say Deathslinger and Freddy have no counterplay.
Spirit I get, sure...but Deathslinger and Freddy? Get good, bud. Just get good.
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Pretty much this.
There was a paper written on this once, but I can't remember the terminology used. Basically, most people don't actually want to fight Mike Tyson, they just want to be told that someone they easily beat was as good as Mike Tyson.
The segment of the population that actually wants to be constantly challenged and put in difficult situations is exceedingly small.
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The times I (a not very good killer) go up against purple/red ranked survivors I get bullied and taunted at the gates. That does not make me want to stick around and continue playing that side to improve. I'm not even upset about the ds/dh/ub/bt/etc meta. That's something I can learn to deal with. Clicking a flashlight next to me 50 times in a row, making a bunch of repeated loud noise notifications, taunting me at the gate, that's all stuff that's going to drive away the killers.
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The only issue I see with those killers is that Freddy passively puts people to sleep without any way to stop or slow it down. Other than that, it's purely about skill.
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I meant they have scenarios with their power that have no counterplay. Try running some loops against them Freddy or Deathslinger. They'll get you without mindgaming you even once just by brute forcing with their power
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I think it’s within any player rights tinplate the way they wanted, short of cheating.
its up to developers to implement measures to discourage „unfun“ playstyle.
I think good killers are harder to find as less players want to play as killers. It’s very intimidating to play as killers for newbies.
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No because all survivors are evil people that want to ruin the killers experience by bullying him with toxic flashlights
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Not every scenario needs to have counterplay. If you end up in one of those, you made a mistake as a survivor and got outplayed. There's also scenarios where DS and BT have no counterplay. I DO run loops against Freddy and Deathslinger, at red ranks, pretty much every day. Perhaps you should just, you know, try harder to get better.
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Survivors also have scenarios that have no counterplay.
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Derankers would disagree they dont want to have skill they just want easy games.
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Very true. I play both sides and there's a whole host of things that needs to be changed not just a couple.
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Damn skippy.
Wait, I mean...uh, nevermind.
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Difference is, the survivor scenarios that have no counterplay are not the result of killer mistakes. A combination of open windows, a combination of perks, going into a locker with DS, stuff like that has absolutely nothing to do with the killers' actions.
Getting caught in a dead-end, trying to loop killers designed to counter looping, not having your eyes open when facing stealth killers, those are all survivor mistakes that result in scenarios without any counterplay.
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It’s almost like not all survivors are the same and there are some that actually want ez games and „bullly“ the killer and then there might also be some that want challenging games and they don’t care about escaping every match...
and those „crying“ about something like OP killers or mechanics might be those that actually struggle against those and not everybody can perfectly loop every killer nor are they able to just „git gud“, because people do have different skill levels..
no no no. Sorry. Just crazy thoughts, you gotta trust the comments here. All survivors bad. Survivor gameplay so ez, even a literal potato would win as survivor. Every survivor should be a god looper or their opinion should never be heard!
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This exactly. Survivor-sided no-counterplay situations are literally never the result of the killer being outplayed or the killer making a mistake. It's the exact opposite 90% of the time when the tables are turned. If the survivor is in a situation where they have no counterplay, it was completely their fault. They made a wrong move. Even, they still have things like DS and BT to get them out of it.
Granted, I will agree with the spirit thing. There really is no solid counterplay to her IMO. Guessing isn't a counterplay.
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I wouldn't say "never" because I'm sure I forgot to take into account some scenarios, so let's go with "almost never".
As for Spirit, both sides are guessing. She can't see you, remember?
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She also has the advantage of sound (especially when most spirits use Stridor) to locate survivors. Where as, survivors really have no tell of where she could be. There was that myth that as she phases, the grass moves where she moves, but that was proven false.
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Yes, players usually take perks to either counter some of the negative aspects of killers' powers or further enhance them. That's the whole purpose of builds.
I'm aware of the myth, I used to believe it myself until I tried it out.
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You don't understand that the second chance perks can be intentionally used by Survivors. Someone with Decisive/Unbreakable/BT/Dead Hard will sometimes intentionally throw themselves at the Killer to buy time for their teammate.
The Killer is making a mistake if they target someone with second chance perks. Because usually that Survivor is intentionally trying to make them affected by their perks. Whether or not its balanced is up for debate. But that's not really the point, the point is that the Killer is making misplay. Yeah jumping in a locker with Decisive has no counterplay, but for the Killer to get in that scenario they made mistakes earlier on that got them there.
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The killer can't know that survivors have second chance perks until survivors get their second chances, which they only get because they made mistakes (by definition, that's what second chance perks are, a second chance after you ######### up). It's not a mistake to act based on the information you have.
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I suppose the issue I see with this thread basically, is it does not outline what a good killer is (in the OP's opinion). I agree with this post, I am a high rank survivor and really enjoy a good, hard match. But that does not ever include tunneled off the first hook with 5 gens up. But from some killers' perspective, that play is called a "strategy".
So the definition of good is important and I try to play killer well. Which means (to me) working to equally, chase, hit and hook people, not to tunnel or camp, work all the objectives, including kicking gens, breaking pallets, etc. If you are doing that then everyone should leave with decent points and maybe pips even if you kill em' all there isn't much room for complaint.
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See, that's just a survivor sided mentality. You're not outplaying a killer by baiting for a grab during an unhook or jumping into a locker just because you have the superman perk that is DS. You're actually just being a cocky nerd. It's not a skillful play, it's just you waving your get out of jail free card around - a card you have because you ######### up and got yourself caught in the first place.
So tell me again how it's not the survivor who made the mistake.
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If that were true then survivors would chill around not doing gens waiting for their turn to get chased. Survivors want to win, same as killers do. That's why both sides use any means necessary to achieve that. Be that gen rushing, slugging/camping, using perks annoying to the other side and far more stuff that may be perceived as not interactive to the other side.
Yes survivors like getting chased probably the most (as long as they are winning the chase) but overall they don't care if they had good chases unless they also win. Same goes for killers, they may have hooked survivors 8 times and had many good chases but if gates get powered and all 4 escape the killer will be extremely annoyed and won't give a damm if he was doing well in chases because in the end he lost hard.
Winning is what it's all about in the end for almost everyone. Yeah we don't always make big deal out of loses but we surely enjoy winning more then participating in the other side's win.
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Wrong.
- Freddy: WAKE. UP. By taking 30 seconds to go hit a clock, you turn him into a Killer that's even weaker than clown.
- Deathslinger: Don't greed pallets. Even if he spears you after dropping the pallet, he can't down you.
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Great questions. There is uproar because tunneling and camping are often the only way killers know how to play these days. As the OP said...survivors want to play against SKILLED Killers...Killers who don't employ these tactics starting with their very first hook...not face-roll killers who make camping/tunneling that much easier for novice killer-players with very little actual skill.
Survivors absolutely want to face good, SKILLED killers. So that when they do win, they feel like they earned it and it was an exciting challenge. There is nothing exciting nor challenging about a killer designed to better camp and tunnel people.
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Heh, you're right. As a survivor, I used to ######### about tunnelling despite ALWAYS wanting to get chased. It's a fine line I guess, I wanted to be chased, but not be tunnelled and eliminated quick. Nowadays though, if they tunnel then I'll just take the L and move on lol.
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God bless you op and @BigBrainMegMain for such attitude and love for being chased wish more shared this attitude 🐷💖
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Aw, thank you.
The thrill of the chase is addicting.
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Yeah, it's weird. I guess the players mature as they play more though, since nowadays I'd prefer a challenge and can get really sluggish in games that are repetitive or games that I dominate. But challenging opponents are fun now, even if I lose, heck, I even compliment killers who outmatch me by that kind of wavelength now.
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Near the end of a match, a Meg got unhooked, I hooked someone else. Before I could even leave the hook, a healed Meg ran over to make the save in my face. If I hit her, she gets injured and then makes the save. Hell, if I try to hit her, there' s a large possibility that the "aim assist" will screw me over and hit the hooked survivor. So, I grab her, get DS'd, and she still makes the save.
I don't feel outplayed in that scenario, just screwed over. She got to make a bad play and get away with it and there was nothing I could do to stop her. No matter what I did, she got to make that save in my face. Moments like that make me wonder how there are any killer players left. Seeing a streamer click "leave match" when he gets DS'd after killing three survivors (chases down the final survivor left on the map and then gets DS'd, there's no one else to go after there's only one [BAD WORD]ing survivor left!) says a lot about the absolute frustration these perks can cause when they punish someone for just daring to play killer.
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This is correct. Sadly most Red Rank Killers are bad. And still complain when they lose.
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I'm a Rank 1 Killer. It's not a Survivor sided mentality. It's the mentality of someone who plays against those perks 24/7 and still wins games. It's pretty easy to read when a Survivor has a second chance perk (they intentionally play more risky and sometimes try to bodyblock) and in general its best to go for the unhooker not the person who got off the hook.
In the case of Dead Hard and Sprint Burst, assume a Survivor has the perk unless waiting to swing will give them a pallet or vault or something. Once I know a Survivor's exhaustion perk, I take note and always play around them using it so they get less value or none at all
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You can't take a chase with Freddy without being put to sleep even if you're good about waking up you could passively fall asleep mid-chase and you'll always fall asleep after the first hit.
Good Deathslingers will often times shoot you just before you have the ability to drop the pallet... so you have to bait the shot. Unfortunately even if you play all of that correctly there are lots of maps where Deathslinger can just quick scope long walls or straight up shoot over the obstacles and drag you. Loops that would be generally somewhat safe against most Killers can be basically dead zones against that power. It's not even like Huntress because there's no warning noise to help dodge and the cast time is near instant
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Unfortunately you don't speak for all survivors. I get plenty that get mad at me, and I've even had a survivor get mad at me for "farming" which was actually me just whooping their asses and then letting them go (not death hooking the survivors). Whether you're good, bad, mean, nice, survivors will find some way to #########.
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But that’s ok, because it helps Survivors win. Killers are supposed to play how Survivors dictate, if not they’re immediately labeled as bad or in fun.
If they truly wanted a challenge, they would never complain about tunneling or slugging. Camping I can understand, but the other two strategies actually challenges Survivors with loads of pressure, pressure they do not want. Instead, they want the Killer to go to the other side of the map until they finish healing.
They refuse to admit that the game is set up to give them advantage during a chase, while slowing the Killer at the same time. No, they believe that their ability to loop is all skill.
If they truly wanted a challenge, they wouldn’t have complained about the map reworks, nor would they have complained about Ruin or NoEd. But there are always complaints.
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Personally I think most survivors do NOT want to go against a skilled killer. Skilled killer means they will find and down you quickly just about every single time. That's not fun.
What most people want is a killer that plays OK-ISH BUT FAIR AT ALL TIMES which means a killer that struggles to find survivors then screws up a lot in a chase resulting in lots of "OMG THAT WAS SO CLOSE!"-moments and still doesn't camp or tunnel after overly long chases even if that way of playing results in a 0k or a 2k at best combined with some tbagging at the gate and classic post game messages.
OBVIOUSLY I COULD BE WRONG, THOUGH.
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As will Killers.
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There was one match, first survivor I found, I started chasing them. They jumped in a locker, I pulled them out, and they DC'd. Beginning of the match, not one hook yet. Next thing I know, I'm getting a message, "You tunneler! The devs said tunneling is cheating. I'm reporting you. You're gonna get banned. Stop cheating."
o_0
I still cannot for the life of me figure out what the hell... I mean, stuff like that makes me believe some survivors really do only want a gen repair sim. That's the only way I can think to interpret that message.
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Its because they want the Killer to play the game on their terms. I play mostly Solo Survivor until I get burnt out and switch to Killer. I see people dcing at the start of the match because it’s a Killer they don’t like (Hag gets a lot of DCs when I face her) or if they get caught first.
If they truly wanted challenging games, they’d never run DS, but they don’t, they just want to feel powerful.
If they truly wanted a challenge there would be no complaints about NoEd since it can be a challenge to find all five totems, or to search for one lit totem when the gens are done, but no, they rush to the forums to cry and accuse Killers for wanting to use a crutch perk.
If Survivors wanted a challenge they wouldn’t use discord when playing Swf and Solo wouldn’t be asking for buffs to be more inline with Swf as well. You wouldn’t see any post about wanting a Totem counter or asking for more communication in the game.
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From this survivor's perspective, you are wrong.
A skilled Killer will not find and down a skilled survivor quickly. And that is the point. Unfortunately, a skilled Killer will find and hook potatoes quickly, which sucks as a stronger player because we all know the game gets exponentially harder with less people or when someone(s) is a total anchor.
I would like 2 things in this game that would, IMO, really bring back the fun. 1) Killers who play 'fair', as you put it. 2) A much better rank/match making system.
There is absolutely no fun playing against unskilled Killers who are easily evaded and dunked on. There is no fun in playing against Killers whose only prowess is to camp and/or tunnel every survivor. There is very little fun in being paired with survivors who do not belong playing alongside legit red ranks and make brain dead decisions that are bad for the team.
Imagine how blissful it would be to just be paired with people of your own skill level, both survivors and Killers, who all played well.
I appreciate a match where a Killer just plays fair. Even if I die. When I get downed in a good chase, I usually remark, "bah, I deserved that."...in post-game chat, I try and tell them that I legit appreciated their play style - because it's so f'ing rare, but it's so much more fun to play against. Match after match after match of being camped and tunneled really ruins this game. It's sad that it's actually noteworthy when someone just plays well and everyone gets to enjoy themselves. That people are so used to having a crappy time, that when someone manages to maintain a fun match - it's praise worthy. That's sad, bruh.
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From my last game, at that.
Another "red rank SWF that brought a lowbie so they get matched against low killers." group.
Yeah, survivors are always looking for those good games. 😂
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