Will Doc be destroyed after Silent Hill gets released?

Predated
Predated Member Posts: 2,976

I personally think he will. Deathbound, while not the strongest perk on its own, has great synergy with Nurse's Calling and Iron Maiden. Leaving only a small donut shaped circle with a width of 4 meters where you could heal up without informing the killer. And even though you dont always need to heal to win a match, its not always possible to go without heals. Self-care is essentially #########, so the only other option would be Inner Strength for undetected healing. However, Iron Maiden would like to intervene there, and even though you can be on the opposite side of the map and safely exit the locker, you still end up notifying the killer of your location, meaning other than a trashy self-care, there is essentially no way to effectively heal up without wasting time or notifying the killer.

While its obviously ridiculous to claim those 3 perks will be used constantly, since Iron Maiden obviously isnt used that much already, outside of huntresses, and ofcourse it's not a bad thing to have the killer been given access to be notified of the location specific of heals. However, the way the perks work pretty much leaves 1 perk to counter it: Calm Spirit.

I feel confident in saying that I am worried about Deathbound being introduced, because its gonna be a common perk, especially early on, and people will start building around it. Which is an extremely bad thing for Doc. The lack of Calm Spirit being used right now is what gives Doc viability in the first place. Doc would essentially be nerfed into oblivion due to a change in the meta.

Now, ofcourse, he'd still be able to tier people up in madness, preventing them from fixing or healing(which is actually a really good counter against BT, since you cant mend alone when crazy). And I am not saying it will completely destroy doc. There are still ways to use your shock and know if someone was there because you got points. You still get to know if people were inside your static blast. However, you end up extremely relying on doc's holograms that arent exactly consistent. They only let you know where a survivor was the moment they spawned in, and by the time you get a second update, the survivor is essentially at the opposite side of the map. Let alone that you cant know if those 2 holograms were spawned by the same or by different survivors.


Essentially, I see doc being practically F-tier killer in the coming meta. Which is extremely disappointing, considering he has just been reworked to be more fitting in the meta.

Comments

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976

    Except infectious fright isnt always useful and only good on certain killers and only works in the killers TR. Deathbound works pretty much anywhere outside the killers TR. Especially on Killers that run NC already.

  • Rydog
    Rydog Member Posts: 3,275

    Do you think a bunch of strong killers are gonna stop running Discordance and STBFL for Deathbound? I agree that it DOES sound like a pretty strong combo with Nurse's Calling, but I also get the sense that survivors can plan to get chased and effectively learn t play around it.

  • Rydog
    Rydog Member Posts: 3,275

    What's effectively being asked is "Do you think Doc will suffer because a bunch of survivors will start running Calm Spirit to counter Deathbound?" To which I say no, I doubt Calm Spirit will become a widespread thing, even if Deathbound does.

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 18,190

    Deathbound is probably the strongest Killer Perk of the Silent Hill-Chapter, but if someone wants information about healing Survivors, they will run Nurses Calling. It gives information when Survivors are healing quite nearby and it probably also interrupts their Healing. Deahtbound just gives an information that somewhere on the Map Survivors have healed. I would ignore the Oblivious-Effect.

    So yeah, if someone wants a Perk which gives information regarding Healing, they will run Nurses Calling. And if they are doing it, they will most likely not add Deathbound, meaning there is no reason to use Calm Spirit.

  • Dead_by_Gadfly
    Dead_by_Gadfly Member Posts: 3,772

    Deathbound SEEMS to situational to matter. Knowing someone just finished healing on the other side of the map is meh. That means they need to finish healing 34 meters away for me to care and even then only if im not currently in a chase which most likely I am

  • Decarcassor
    Decarcassor Member Posts: 651

    Calm Spirit is not even a true counter to Doctor anyway. There is a sound cue when you hit someone with Static Blast, even if they don't scream, and the true tracking potential of the Doctor come from the hallucination with Restraint, not from the imprecise randoms screams.

  • thesuicidefox
    thesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,222

    Good. I ######### hate Doctor. If I could delete his ass from the game I would.

  • Huff
    Huff Member Posts: 1,480

    Even if Calm Spirit did become meta, I don't think it screws over Doc as much as people think. Don't get me wrong, it definitely harms him (more than most killers at that) but I think something people often forget is the fact that Doc's power isn't only useful for making people scream. There's the disruption aspect of it obviously, but even if you can't see the survivors because of their screaming, you can still see the Doctor phantasms pop up. On top of all that, Calm Spirit isn't going to stop a Doc from being effective when it comes to stopping a loop or a window.

  • PigMainClaudette
    PigMainClaudette Member Posts: 3,842

    Doctor's not going anywhere. He's an easy killer to gain massive amounts of Bloodpoints with, comes included with the game if you're on console, and has one of (if not THE) most powerful non-mobility related power in the game.

    I doubt that a purely paid killer, with less than stellar teachable perks, is going to replace someone like Doctor.

  • Seiko300
    Seiko300 Member Posts: 1,862

    Short answer: no.

    Pyramid's "meh" perks are not going to do anything to throw a decent killer into obscurity, especially over the heads of killers that are actually underperforming like Clown, Legion, Leatherface, Pig, etc.

  • NursesBootie
    NursesBootie Member Posts: 2,159

    I don't rely on sounds in my information builds anymore. Just auras.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976

    The screams are not imprecise at all, they show the final location where the survivor was. Having 2-3 screams from the same person and you know their pathing. They scream more often than the hallucinations spawn and they are much more distinctive.

    Like I said, it will be a very big nerf for doc gameplay in general. Ofcourse doc will still have his powers, but its simply going to be like using amanda's letter when everyone is using Sole Survivor. Its just a massive ######### you towards 1 specific killer essentially. A killer that wasnt super strong in the first place, and since his rework gained some strength.

  • LordGlint
    LordGlint Member Posts: 9,796

    Information on your location is only really useful when a killer can act upon it. If you heal up far away from the killer and they find out your across the map... its not really valuable information to them. They probably have more pressing things to handle. For that regard, I doubt the perk is gonna see much use.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976

    True, but you also remain oblivious for 45 seconds if you go outside the 8 meter range of the person you healed. Especially if everyone is injured, the killer could easily sneak up on them and get a free down. Especially if you already run Nurses and know they will probably keep healing.

    It's not the greatest perk, but its good enough to be ran consistently on a handful of killers. Im not saying it should be nerfed, ######### that, its just that I definitely see this perk being used more commonly than Iron Maiden and Infectious Fright to a point where running Calm Spirit will be quite viable. Right now its a niche perk and actually fun to run and have killers be confused about the lack of scream when someone gets downed, let alone to constantly be spamming lockers when you find out it has Iron Maiden. But part of Doctors strength is that the scream and shock stack, preventing survivors from vaulting for 3.5/4-ish seconds instead of 2.5 because of the scream(which I honestly dont think was initially intended, but it makes Calm Spirit kinda worth running in the first place).

    I mean, people claimed reworked Ruin would never be used because it was "so terrible", yet I still see ruin almost every other game. I have yet to see a so called "unused" perk to not show up once every 1-2 hours. Ofcourse that doesnt include actual terrible perks, I sometimes just dont see them at all, but I've heard plenty people claim that Dead Man's Switch wouldnt get much use at all because "survivors will keep working on gens because they have no reason to instantly unhook", yet here we are, getting that perk at least 3 times a day because survivors dont play perfectly at all times. Especially not when they dont expect certain perks being used. Cruel Limits, in example, actually could have massive value simply because survivors tend to miscalculate how far it actually reaches(in some cases, 2 quick gens can literally block 80% of all vaults), basically creating multiple deathchambers where they run into, giving you a free hit, while also being unable to reach the next loopable structure because the closest ones are mostlikely blocked off too. Yeah, if Cruel Limits was used as commonly as BBQ, ofcourse people would know what to expect in the first place, but the devastating effect a single unsuspected perk can do can literally change games.

  • Huff
    Huff Member Posts: 1,480

    I see what you mean and I still agree that you're right in that regard: he will definitely be weaker if people start running CS more often. I just personally don't think he'll end up F tier. "F tier" killers is the tier I imagine people putting Clown and Leatherface (since those are the two most common I see called the worst in the game) and I have a really hard time seeing Doctor being put on the same level as those two. I think Doc's definitely on a higher level.

  • LordGlint
    LordGlint Member Posts: 9,796

    The entire point of the perk is that it causes someone to scream after theyve finished the healing process. If everyones still injured... no one has screamed yet because no one has healed yet.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976
    edited May 2020

    After 1 person finished the healing process, they scream, meaning that if 2-3 injured survivors are healing 1 injured survivor, they reveal the location of themselves(still injured). Thats the whole point. The scream means that 1 person is healed up, if everyone is injured, and 1 person screams that means the screaming person still is injured. How could you not get that implication from my comment?

    The set-up was "everyone is injured, then someone screams", implying the perk activates, meaning 1 person is healed. Its not "someone screams, then everyone is injured".

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976

    Well, you could say the same about Bamboozle. Its not exactly the greatest perk(even though it can literally break a windowdrop loop and was literally the strongest counter to old haddonfield with BL to a point where you could still get a hit), yet its common as #########. BBQ isnt exactly the greatest perk. Its not even the best at what it does. Yet the easy double bloodpoints in addition to detection is why its super common.

    I'd say that NOED, Thana, Agitation and Brutal Strength are all worse than deathbound, yet I see them often enough to sometimes consider a counterbuild or counterplay. I already sometimes use Calm Spirit just to mix up my builds a bit, and its funny to have killers be ever be so confused to not hear a scream when someone drops. And if a killer happens to run Huntress with Iron Maiden(which is quite common, 70% of the huntresses I encounter have Iron Maiden and about 35% of the killers I face are Huntresses). So they dont tend to check lockers much outside reloading, since if they open more than 1 locker, survivors tend to try and go for the sneak escape, which Iron Maiden prevents. So there simply already is a reason to sometimes pick Calm Spirit if you're not tryharding, even though its a niche one. I've seen more Calm Spirits the past month, than I've seen Botany Knowledge, excluding games I play with my friend. Even though botany knowledge has more value overall,

  • LordGlint
    LordGlint Member Posts: 9,796

    The situation your describing would pretty much be a weaker nurses calling. The killer cannot interupt a heal, has to hope the one doing the healing is ALSO injured in order to chase an injured target and also only gets information on targets far away as opposed to people nearby that they can close in on quickly AND isnt getting an aura, but rather a scream...which is a weaker detection. All this while openly announcing to the survivor that its happening.

    The distance required would guarantee that the survivor has a HUGE headstart if the killer does infact choose to initiate a chase. No killer wants to start chasing a survivor who is 32 meters away and already running. The amount of time needed to catch up if the survivor chooses to do something as simple as hold W is absurd. Of Pyramid heads 3 perks, id say 1 of em has a chance of being used in any sort of serious manner...this aint it.

  • Predated
    Predated Member Posts: 2,976

    "The distance required would guarantee that the survivor has a HUGE headstart if the killer does infact choose to initiate a chase. No killer wants to start chasing a survivor who is 32 meters away and already running."

    I kinda disagree here. The survivors that tend to stay away from the killer tend to be the ones who are easier to catch in general. Those who want to stay close to the killer are often survivors who know how to keep the killer at bay. And while 32 meters is a lot, the largest distance, which is on Crotus Pren(considering you have to walk around the center rather than straight through) or Bloodlodge from the furtest distances, takes about 30 seconds, which is a lot, assuming nothing has been done all game. But a game has been played, pallets have been dropped, some being destroyed. Some gens being fixed open up a new gen. You might need to go there due to a certain objective in general and now you know that not only the location of 2 specific survivors, you know which one wont be able to hear you. And you know that unless that survivor happens to have spine chill, they wont know you're coming untill they hear the TR.

    Besides, killers are able to cut off massive chunks in a chase where a survivor cant. A survivor wants to stay away as far as possible, and by doing so, enable you to cut off a ton of distance. Which, especially when they are injured, can save you a lot of time.

    Considering everything that can happen in every game, not just assuming all games to go perfectly, this perk has a LOT of potential. Assuming all games are optimal SWF, yeah, its a bad perk. But thats not the case. 90% of 4 man SWF's arent even optimal. So you're basing the judgement of 1 perk to be on the behaviour of about 2% of the community. Which simply isnt the case. Most survivors I play with and against, are far from tryharding. Heck, most survivors, when I am survivor, end up ######### me over in some way or another, giving the killer the option to catch me in a situation where I dont expect to be chased, since someone else is being chased, and get a hit on me before I have the chance to remember all the obstacles I encountered in the map. Which can lead to an easy down(I once even had a killer claim that he didnt have a clue how I was rank 1, even though literally all pallets had been burned in the first minute of the game, and the killer had no TR. I literally had no idea the killer was close for the first hit, and I didnt have any place to run to since other players essentially turned those parts of the map into deadzones). Dont underestimate the stupidity of the average player, dont underestimate the lack of community in a game. Most survivors have to find out themselves what the state of the map is. Even when I play with friends in discord or teamspeak, some of them dont communicate where deadzones are and only inform me after I already ran to the deadzone. A false sense of security is sometimes all you need and even a baby killer can take down a high ranked survivor that is given a false sense of security. When I play solo survivor, that obviously is less common, because I already have to assume things are gone and that I can only rely on windows, any pallet given would be a blessing in the first place, but I can confidently say that in most cases all a killer needs is common sense and time to get what they need. And perks like death bound, aid a killer in that. Yes its ######### against optimal swf and high skill tryhard solo survivors, but in general, when you are not already in a chase or realize the chase is gonna last much longer and you have no inkling where other survivors might be, which is more common than you'd think, death bound is gonna be very useful.