Please stop using self-care
So, my friends and I were a 3 man swf and there was a Kate we were on dead dawg saloon with a huntress with sloppy butcher, nurse's calling, barbeque, and blood warden. So we all were injured at like the beginning of the game cause we're bad lmao and I have bond on and the Kate is selfcaring whilst there is tier 3 sloppy butcher like I would rather they bring a brown medkit instead of self care like it wastes so much time like please bring medkits please. P.s we all escaped cept me and Kate.
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Selfcare is not that bad. It is bad when people die on hook while someone selfcares, sure. But That's not the perk, that's the survivor. That survivor could also just say "nah, I'm injured, can't go for the save. I'll hide until someone heals me". Same result, maybe even worse because the survivor won't be helpful for an even longer time.
Thing is, if you are healed up, you are not "exposed" anymore. If you can extend the chase with that extra hit, it gives other survivors extra time on gens. Yeah, some people say, it HAS to extend the chase 32 seconds because you wasted that time on healing. Actually 11 seconds is enough because 3 people could work on gens in that time, meaning 33 seconds gen progress. And there was a video for comparing clown gas differences. Without any perks or powers or addons to end the chase quicker or close distance faster, you need 26 seconds to catch up to a survivor you hit, if the survivor just runs in a straight line. I'd say that's worth it. It is just not worth it if you run against killers like Legion for example, that can easily keep multiple survivors injured. Because then you never get out of the healing mode.
Btw, one survivor healing himself with Selfcare takes 32 seconds. One survivor healing another survivor takes 16 seconds, while 2 people are busy with it. 16*2 = 32. Same amount of "lost" time. When you go to someone on a gen and let him heal you, it would be actually more efficient to use selfcare, because when you join him, you both get slowdown on the gen. Better let yourself don't do the gen for 32 seconds while the other one can work with 100% efficiency, than having 0% efficiency for 16 seconds and then 170% . You get less progress after 32 seconds.
The only really valuable thing over Selfcare is, when you team up to heal. 2 people healing someone takes 8 seconds, times 3 for 3 people being busy is 24 seconds.
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Fair point. P.s three survivors can't heal one survivor only two
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Just as addition: of course it is also bad if the survivor runs across the map to find a stupid unsafe healing spot in the middle of nowhere. That "running across the map" wastes time as well and a longer healing time increases the chances to get found by the killer before you finished. This is just less likely to happen when you are done quicker. But this is again a survivor thing, not a perk thing. Finding safe healing spots is not that hard, but many people think "get out of LOS" is sufficient.
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I know. But that is 3 people busy, so 3 people not doing gens. 1 healed, 2 healing
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Again fair point
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Selfcare is trash. You have medkits that will do the same thing but much faster. If you're afraid you're gonna run out then bring a chest looting build with pharmacy.
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You think Selfcare is trash. Take time to read my post or bring up another valid explanation pls. Bring medkit doesn't work if you want to use other items "meh, guess I have to be exposed half of the game, good thing to try flashlight saves with that condition". Yeah, no
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I would recommend run Self-Care with Botany Knowledge. It's also worth to heal against Sloppy Butcher. About Sloppy Butcher, tiers only affect bleeding frequency. Mangled is same on every tier.
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I rarely use self-care but when I do I use botany
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I was killer and I told a survivor after the game how running self care really wasn't really good. Especially since I'm playing Bubba where I've literally gotten every down except for one or two with the chainsaw.
There reply was that they were devotion 17 and they can run whatever they want 😂 I asked for a picture of their rank, what a shock I didn't get a reply.
They played like a devotion 17 *cough* *cough* lol
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If you dont heal against bubba he will just m1 you.
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Seeing it as killer make game easier. I run a slow heal build on doc and yet people are still self healing.
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I mean, it's ok to dislike a perk but I feel we should refrain from telling people how to play or what to use.
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If you waste 32 seconds healing and I down you with the chainsaw in about 5 then it wasn't pretty dumb. Especially when within those 32 seconds I can get all 3 stacks of PWYF.
Genuinely if self care was as good as people think then why are all the "sweaty swat swf" teams not running it? It's because it wastes time and doesn't help your team.
Also in this game I got upwards of 10 downs with the chainsaw so it should show why self caring was a waste. After this survivor self cared I found them and downed them within 10 seconds of completing their self care.
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Wait, you saw a survivor healing with your Bond and couldn't figure out how to get them to stop self caring? I honestly don't think Kate was the stupid one in this scenario.
As killer, I love it when survivors don't heal. And a lack of self care is one of the biggest ways to take away the ability to heal so go ahead and spread this propoganda.
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Sweaty SWF don't run it cuz they have other means and loop good enough to play without healing at all. If you count the games, there is quite a lot of Selfcare used in red ranks (beneath the fact that red ranks means nothing).
Did you readmy post? First one in this thread. The time you waste doesn't matter. It is the same amount if you are healed or heal yourself. When asking someone on a gen for a heal, Selfcare would be even better. It is just how the survivor decides to use this perk, what can mess up games, but you don't need specific perks for that to happen
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LOL! I like this.
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I hate survivors who don’t heal. If I could choose, I would choose a team of 4 Self Cares over a team of 4 people who do gens injured, every single time.
Don’t get me wrong, sometimes healing is necessary, especially against certain killers. But a team of people who spend at least 32 seconds healing every time I injure them? Easy game for me.
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Bond is better than self care. Use Bond, to find someone to heal you if you are that scared of being injured. Better yet run iron will and just don't give a ######### about being injured, that is what I do anyway.
Self care is a massive waste of time, half the time the killer will hear you healing unless you ran away from the hook which is an even longer waste of time. Self care doesn't help anyone on your team accept you so really if you are arguing it is viable it is only viable for solo-q. There is nothing worse than dying on the hook because immersed Claudy wants to self-care before she can rescue. If I could ban the perk I would because as a solo queuer I have learned that people that use SC think it is brilliant because they can gain a health state, but in reality they waste someone elses because by the time you are healed someone has probably gone down and you have done ######### all. It also encourages people to hate being injured. Being injured is not the end of the world (SC users seem to think it is) it is better to push 32 seconds of a gen then it is to SC because if you waste that 32 someone is probably gunna get hooked and/or die.
To me self care is the equivalent of no mither, yeah you get to change from one health state to another but the drawback of the perk is way to big. SC used to be meta now it is just trash. If you are red ranks and using self care you don't belong in red ranks simple as. I have taken the time to list perks that can be altruistic that is better than self care:
Inner Strength
Adrenaline
Pharmacy
We'll make it
Botany Knowledge (if you pair it with self care you are even more dumb, wasting 2 perk slots for something inner strength can do twice as quick...)
Plunderers
Resilience
For the people
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Believe me I know there is a lot of Self Care in red ranks 😂 definitely not what I want to see. It's a bad sign that killers usually see self care as a fifth killer perk lol
Yea I just read it. The thing about it is your using efficiency as your prime point. Imagine if we both are standing next a gen with 0 progress. We have three options:
- You Self Care: I get 32 seconds worth of progress then we finish the gen in I'm guessing about 27 seconds (compensating for the slowdown).
- I heal you: 16 seconds of nothing then 46 seconds of generator work.
- You don't heal: We both rush the gen in 46 seconds. We can heal after if you want.
The thing is option 3 is more likely to avoid a pop or the killer coming to the gen. If the killer sees a gen nearly done he will guard it. If he recently hooked someone then he's more likely to get value out of pop if we use option 1 or 2.
This is the way most people think imo. I don't want to get a gen 3/4 for the killer to kick it or guard it. If you help me complete the gen I'll heal you but before that I want to finish my gen. Self care users are like urban players in that they use it badly and usually hurt the team more than help it. Spine chill was another perk I hated till I learned that it's only bad on babies.
I actually run inner strength. I don't go actively seeking totems and will rush gens injured. However if I see one then I'll grab it and use it when I think it's necessary. It can also be used well with other perks like ds and head-on.
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No
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spread the word
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Pairing Botany with Self Care isn't dumb. It's the only way to make it a good choice. And since it let's you heal others faster it's good by itself.
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Your three options only work if the killer doesn't approach you. The main counter argument against Selfcare. If you don't face the killer, healing is generally the worst option. If you face him, you have a down. That's why you have to decide if you wanna heal or not, and that depends on your skill. Also, point 3 is the same like point one, only giving the killer 16 seconds less time to interrupt you.
And don't forget about my point regarding the 26 seconds of extra chase you can get, by just running. That gives the other guy 26 seconds on the gen. Plus other survivors that might work on gens as well.
It is not all about gen progress. Being injured can have a lot of side effects. You need to optimize how you use your time, and going down easy in chases is not a win to the team at all. Agreed if you need to finish a gen when Pop is in play. Finish the gen, the healthy one can take a hit, then Selfcare, but again, also healing in general would be a bad idea.
For example: We had once a Pop Clown and wanted to finish a gen to waste the active Pop, after the Clown just hooked someone. The fourth guy cleansed Haunted Grounds right after the hook. My friend said "let's finish it". Clown approached, he got downed, I finished it and got downed after that. 3 downs for one gen, totally not worth it. The slowdown we got from that was way heavier than the Pop could do. Gen speed is not everything, especially when it gets closer to death hook. Once a mate is out of the game, you have a bigger problem than a person healing some times.
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exactly this!
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Self-Care + Botany is not too egregious at any rank.
Throw on DS + (Exhaustion of your choice) and you have a pretty decent solo build / Alternative to Detective's Hunch - Inner Strength.
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SC should honestly take 28 seconds, that'd be in the middle of 32 and 24 (old and OP SC's number). Then the devs could decrease from there.
Yeah, people Self Caring can be irritating as heck, but I think it's wrong to discourage them from using it.
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Self-Care is one of the strongest killer perks.
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LOL, it's sad because it's true XD!
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Bond is an infinitely better healing perk than Self Care. And Inner Strength is a good runner-up.
I understand that Self Care has some valid uses, but most people are going to use it inefficiently, and it just teaches bad habits. You're better off using Bond, Inner Strength, or even Pharamcy. Heck, just bring a brown med kit if you're that worried.
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Lol. Play some solos
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The thing is if your good at looping then being injured might not even matter that much. Sure taking an extra hit can be good but you can still waste 2 mins while being injured in a chase. If your worried about the killer coming to you then bring spine chill, gives you all the info you need when it comes to rushing gens.
Also never say "only giving the killer 16 seconds" that's a lot of time lol
26 seconds is good but it isn't worth much if the killer has already kicked a gen that was 75% before that. Especially when you were self caring could've finished that gen.
The example you gave is just silly. You never should've committed to that gen in that scenario. If anything it actually helps what I'm saying. If you healed before working on that gen then you wasted time which gave the killer time to reach it after haunted grounds was cleansed. You could've finished the gen and had plenty of time to leave before the "commit to the gen" scenario came up. You need to be smart with how you use your time.
Here's something anyone who runs self care must think. Why does a sweaty swf team doesn't run it? Also why killers love seeing survivors run it?
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I'll run a yellow med-kit with bandages over Self-Care any day. I'd even pick Pharmacy over it.
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The best way to get people to stop using self care is to heal them. If somebody's upset that they're using self care, then it's pretty much their own fault. If you can actually see them self caring, that means either you're in a position to heal them or you're on the hook where it would be stupid to try and rescue you injured.
Spoken just like those noobs that I smashed the crap out of this morning cause they kept trying to do everything injured and got 3 hooked way faster than standard survivors. I have no doubt y'all are the type of people who don't heal other survivors which make self care such a necessary perk to begin with.
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Please keep running self-care, it's such a great perk and it totally doesn't waste time and make killing you easier or anything....
Nothing makes my day more then seeing a Blendette healing in the corner of the map with self-care. Brings a tear to my eye
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Or any other character it’s not always a Claudette In a corner.People need to stop fixating that everything is always a Claudette doing this or that.Like really people wake up and smell the roses other characters do this in corners as well.
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I don't disagree totally, but Selfcare is simply not a bad perk. You can just use it in a bad way.
And when you say "if you are good at looping, you can still survive long enough" you also have to say "if you are bad at looping, you need the heal, otherwise you put your team into trouble with quick hooks. If 16 seconds is a lot of time, then 46 seconds is even more. Giving him time to interrupt you and find a relatively easy down.
All I'm sayingis, Some people need heals, some situations need heals and the standard argument of the wasted time is not a valid argument, because getting heals by others simplytakes the same amount of time. And listed above, that Bond is the better "healing perk" is simply wrong. You need more time to find someone to heal than with Selfcare. Unless you run across the map to heal, which is exactly one of the arguments
The example with Haunted Grounds had nothing to do with healing, we couldn't finish the gen faster. I just used it to show that "downs vs gens" can have a bad effect if you give gens too high value. You can throw your team with easy giveaway hooks.
Answers to your question. I already answered the first one: if they are really sweaty, they have other methods to save each other or they are simply good enough to play a whole game without healing. Second one: Because most people don't use it correctly. If everyone did, then killers would say something different.
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Lol, it isn't 'necessary'. I do heal the people, stop strawmanning. I'm arguing with someone who likes to strawman, hilarious.
Self care became inefficient after the nerf because 32 seconds wasted on healing is almost half a gens worth of time wasted on healing. It has so many negatives, I can't even begin to tell you, since you're obviously too narrow minded and arrogant to understand it, but hey, I got plenty of time to kill, so I might as well TRY.
I mean, just look at your statement 'spoken by those noobs I smashed the crap out of this morning'. They were NOOBS, they were probably learning how to play without SC, and you just insult them? They weren't good without it, but so what? It doesn't make them 'noobs'. Give it enough time and they'll surely surpass you in skill. People who don't bother healing generally improve in chases by being one hit KO, so they learn to chase injured, which hones their skill a LOT to which they become good to the point that they can extend a chase long enough without it effortlessly.
Resilience and Spine chill combo is great when you're injured, and some of the best chasing perks for survivors in the game.
Another would be Dead hard, Dead Hard allows you to essentially take an extra hit, but the killer does recover faster, but the distance generally helps, it can sometimes be used to extend a loop, like the Shack to REALLY greed the pallets.
Sprint burst itself is so efficient when you don't heal, with SB, you turn deadzones into safe zones, and you can make it to any pallet. And if a survivor is smart, they won't get downed in a zone with safe pallets and windows. It's like a better Dead hard in that sense.
Lithe and BL and hit or miss, if you're in a spot for them, they'll provide insane value, with Lithe giving a TON of distance as the killer has to walk around the window or vault, and BL forces the killer to drop down so your teammates (if they hide) can pressure the gens.
You know, if you think SC is 'necessary' and seem to think it's efficient, maybe it's time you start considering if you're the 'noob' here, not the people who have the balls to try to hone their skill.
I mean I used SC for a few months after the exhaustion nerf, the second I took it off, I saw the difference, it was HUGE. And at the same time, my chasing skill drastically increased, making me much better than I was when I used SC. As a result, I became a stronger player overall, and when injured, my chasing was around the same as my chasing when I had 2 hits in me back then. Not to slander other SC players, I'm sure there's some gods out there who can run for 5 gens with or without SC.
Anyways, SC is only viable with Botany or with a medkit, without it, you're wasting time. Back to Resilience, Resilience makes a gen take 72.8 seconds. Now, that's only 7.2 seconds less right? But, half a gen also then takes 36.4 seconds. Which is 4.4 more seconds than you actually healing. With resilience, you're being more of a help to your team than giving the killer a chance to use your SC time to regress generators, this is common sense. If you're interrupted, unless you're in a deadzone without SB which does happen, you should be able to put a chase up easily.
Before you pull out the old argument of SC takes 32 seconds, 2 survivors healing takes 32 seconds. Yes, that's true, but if the killer interrupts someone Self caring, they'll go down, easily. However, if the killer interrupts 2 survivors healing, then in 16 seconds, there's a good chance one is full health, able to take the hit, and one survivors can put a chase depending on who the killer chases, while the other aggressively pressures gens to pressure the killer. Even if the survivors were to SC individually, yes a killer could interrupt one, and the other would get the heal of, but the killer gains pressure from it, they got an easy down AND the other survivor wasted those seconds just healing, and gens were not pressured. A team of SC people will never beat a good killer who just uses the SC to their advantage.
Don't bother strawmanning. At least TRY to show me an argument where I'm wrong, instead of getting all emotional about it and comparing me to people who, I assume, are trying to hone their skill without SC.
Dehitay, if you don't want to read this, i'm fine with that, but don't respond to me after then, have a nice day/night.
Edit: Added a comma.
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I only run self care with Botany Knowledge, but I have to run it as a solo queue player because I do get team mates who can't be bothered to heal or rescue and I'm not going to rescue someone injured.
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Self care is a wasted perk slot.
Just alone versing Plague, legion or a skillful makes this perk wasted. Let alone perks like sloppy etc.
It's better to use bond and let yourself get healed. Or you know, a medkit
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Ah yes, blanket statements.
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I'd say if people can't loop then they shouldn't be at the high ranks. When I imagine a red rank survivor I think of someone who knows how to rush gens, plays smart and can loop. If I have a teammate who is bad at looping and wastes time self caring then I'm definitely not happy with matchmaking lol
I didn't the Bond discussion so I can't say much about that.
Not self-caring doesn't equal getting downed at the gen. That's all about being smart in the moment. If I'm injured and I know I can't complete the gen in time then I'm leaving it. The thing is me staying on the gen injured, before healing gives us more chance of completing it before the killer comes.
Self care isn't useless but definitely isn't good.
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I can be a straight-up potato when it comes to looping (unless it's an easier loop like a double-window or maaaaaaaaaaybe shack), and I consistently make it into red ranks. My strategy tends to be "don't engage with the killer unless I have to." It has served me well so far.
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I mean, yeah you can hate on the perk as much as you like, that's why opinions are allowed and why we have a large array of perks and playstyles to utilize. But the reality is, its a game, people are going to use whatever the heck they like one way or another, that's the risk of playing with random players.
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Honestly with the exception of legion there really isn't any killer that you shouldn't heal against. This is only because they can injure you so frequently and efficiently that the time you spend healing is usually negated very quickly so that time spent healing could be very easily used doing generators instead
If you're up against Oni and you actively refused to heal your making his snowball potential a lot more dangerous I would rather have someone self care to prevent him from snowballing easily than running around leaving blood orbs trying to look for someone to heal them.
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How cute, you learned a big fancy word. Well, learned might be a misstatement as you're using it incorrectly. A strawman argument is when you misrepresent somebody's argument in order to make it easier to debate them. Too bad for you I actually knew that. What you were specifically quoted saying was an agreement with the statement that self care is a killer perk. Now anybody with half a brain knows immediately that statement is completely wrong. The irony here is that you actually strawmanned yourself. You completely changed your own argument in order to make it sound like you didn't say something completely stupid to begin with so you could have an easier time debating. Yes, all the stuff in your response makes sense. But that would be like me responding "Omg, I can't believe you would say something so homophobic. Gay people absolutely do not need to be segregated from the rest of the community just to make you feel comfortable. They're perfectly capable of being part of everyday society without cause anarachy." Yes, that statement makes perfect sense but sure as hell isn't what I've said before.
And btw, when I told those players I decimated earlier that they should have healed more, they literally said that self care was pointless because it helps the killer more than anything else. So your original statement was literally like them. That's just straight up equivalency logic. Pretty much the opposite of a strawman. No matter how much you want to claim otherwise, you ARE like them. Changing your position now is smart, but it doesn't change what you already said.
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Pretty hypocritical coming from the guy who said "Self Care is one of the strongest killer perks".
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Man, if that joke is still flying right over your head, I don't know what to tell you.
But then again, you seem really passionate about the game, to the point of getting mad at anyone who disagrees with your opinions on perks, I wouldn't be surprised if you forgot the concept of humour by now.
I can't wait for you to look into your crystall ball to "call out" my playstyle once again though. In the meantime I'll prepare a bingo sheet to see how many things you get wrong.
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Self-Care is a guaranteed way to heal with no true limitations. It is also mathematically the same as having someone else heal you in terms of team time, since it is twice as long, but half the people.
Inner Strength is reliant on totems, which one cannot always find. Med-kits have limited charges and can be countered by Franklin's. You aren't 100% guaranteed to find someone while using Bond.
The fact that it is a Claudette teachable is also huge, considering she is one of the best survivors for those wishing to play a stealth build. Combined with Botany Knowledge or Resilience, it can also be pretty effective. You can 99 the healing, then just finish up when you hear/see the killer is coming.
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