Please stop using self-care
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The discussion is basically about Selfcare being worse than getting healed by others, and that is definitely wrong. The argument is always time wasting, but there is not more time waste than when getting healed, that's what I'm saying. We can discuss about hundred perks which will always lead to personal playstyle and abilities if the perks are good or not, true rank one survivors don't even need exhaustion perks.
Btw it is not the player's fault that matchmaking isn't working, and it's not like the rank restricts which perks you are allowed to play. And sometimes even high ranks need to heal themselves because noone is coming for help, idling near the open gate not being able to distract for an unhook or taking a hit, just because he has no chance of getting healed. It is all situational, skill based and subjective. The perk itself is not bad (not talking about S tier or whatever) it just can be used in a bad way
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My bad on the strawmanning, my friend told me it basically meant assuming something about someone. Sorry about that. Also, I never changed my position, I've always had this stance on SC. Me agreeing with the killer perk statement was me trying to point out how it benefits the killer more, which I did later point out to you in one of my arguments when I said all that time is wasted for something less productive than just pressuring a gen. I never changed my argument to disguise what I said before, if anything, I added more points to my argument. SC helps the killer more than it does to the survivor, hence why I agreed with the joke that it's one of the best killer perks. My stance on it all was never changed though, it's remained the same. SC benefits the killer more, hence why you could joke about it being a killer perk. I clearly pointed that out (even if it was indirect) when listing all of its negatives.
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I like getting healed to 99%, work on a gen with resiliance and pop that last 1% with self care and be full health again! I almost never self care and even less if there's sloppy, but in some occasions it has saved my ass.
Playing solo, so i use it more as a last resort heal.
Post edited by BlindMole on0 -
whu the ######### stop use it ? you no like dont use dont tell others what perk use self care is good when you trash team ecape like rats and let someone hook how the ######### you think you can help him with out heal tell me?
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Self care is really good guys
Please keep using it every match
(Plague main)
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All hail the brown medkit!
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A friend of mine played killer on grey ranks and told me people were repairing gens while injured and even popped gens in his face even going down to finish them.
Think about this for a second next time you equip Self Care or Urban Evasion on red ranks.
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If you don't self-care, you are giving the killer free NOED
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Can we add urban evasion to the perk to stop use for the love of the entity
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If you do run self-care, you are giving the killer enough time to find and down another survivor, regress generators and you give the killer a chance to find you using Nurse's Calling.
Also many killers run Sloppy Butcher so you're basically self-caring for 50% of a complete generator just for 1 health state which is useless as most survivors only last a few seconds in a chase anyways so might as well repair while injured.
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I try to explain the math to people All... the... time, so thank you for going in depth.
Self care itself isn’t bad it’s just gotten a bad reputation because of some blendettes who hide in corners and self care against legion 10 times a game.
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I often use self-care because I play solo and rarely can rely on my team. I know when to heal and when to just push on. The perk has saved me far more than hurt me.
The issue with self-care is that many new/inexperienced players think they need to be "healthy state" as much of the game as possible or lack the confidence/skill required to keep a chase while injured. For this reason the perk is given a bad rep despite it being an issue with the players understanding of the match, not the perk.
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Yeah, used wisely self care is great and like you said as solo survivors we can’t rely on our teammates healing us when needed. Heck I can’t even rely on my team to unhook me some games.
Ive had players with we’ll make it unhook me and then run off... I’ve had players ignore healing me to loot a chest 2 meters away... I’ve helped double heal 2 other players and then watch them run off without healing me even though the killer wasn’t around... the point is if people feel more comfortable playing at full health who are you to tell them no? And if they want to be at full health and are solo they have to bring self care or a medkit, or being inner strength and hope to find totems
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Exactly. Its the players experience and ability to determine the best course of action during a match that has lead self-care to get a bad rep not the perk itself.
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The funny thing is other perks are used just as poorly and waste just as much time but no one is judge for using them. Two examples are Sprint Burst and Head on, now to start I think Sprint Burst is amazing and head on is fun and sometimes strong, but again their real usefulness is dependent on who and how they are used.
Ive seen survivors literally walk EVERYWHERE so sprint burst is available, these guys waste more time walking to a gen than self care does.
People will jump on and out of lockers for 90% of the game and never actually hit the killer with head on. These people waste literally minutes inside of a locker instead of doing gens but Head on is “fun,” so it’s okay.
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I used to be a self care gamer. But with the increase in sloppy butcher users, plus better perk options available for me to use, I stopped using it. I also run Bond, so if my med kit runs out I can usually find a team mate to heal me up.
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Sloppy butcher definitely throws it out of whack, but even with Bond it’s gonna take you a few seconds to find a teammate and make it to them. Then you both spend 16 second standing there which is 32+ seconds of time spent between the two of you that could’ve been used on gens. Or you self care for 32 seconds and they stay on the gen.
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Agree.
It's a waste of time, and the reason why I don't play with randoms anymore
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The thing with SB and Head On is that its difficult as another survivor to see the use someone is getting out of it. Its easy to see someone self-caring in a corner or during a Legion with Thana.
I have no idea is Claudette has used her SB to great/poor effect and thus am unable to comment on its use.
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So here’s the curse of running Bond or Kindred every game, you DO see what your teammates are doing.
Ive seen someone walk across the whole map to unhook me to save their sprint burst, me going to second stage because of it. I’m not saying everyone or even a majority do it, and I still think SB is one of the strongest perks in the game!
I’ve seen survivors Deliverence instantly in front of the killer, without DS, and go right back on the hook. I still think deliverance can be a game changing perk.
All I’m saying sometimes it isn’t the perk that is bad it’s how it’s used. I very rarely use self care because I prefer medkits but sometimes I switch things up and I don’t think I’m a bad player all of a sudden because I brought self care.
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I've personally stopped using Self-Care for the moment as an experiment. I run Bond anyway, so it's not like it's hard for me to find somebody to heal me.
But frankly, this whole attitude that "Self Care Sucks" makes zero sense to me. It's only a 50 percent decrease in heal time. Sure, another person can heal you in half the time, but I think people fail to realize that's now TWO people not getting anything done. In man-hours lost, it equal the same amount of time as one person self-caring. Time wasted is not a good justification to not use it - it's the same man-hours either way.
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Yes, I know :P The "Selfish-care" is just a meme people like to parrot blindly without thinking about it.
Just as counter argument to show WHEN exactly Selfcare is bad are the ones that argue "unlimited heals" as plus for selfcare. Because normally you don't heal that often in a game. I would say the typical range is 2-4 times a game, and people that need more heals to exceed this average are actually starting to waste time.
The most valuable thing about Selfcare is, that you can heal when you need it.
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Yep the math like that shows self care isn’t a bad perk, plus there’s a teeny bit of travel time most likely. People started hating on self care because of blendettes healing against sloppy butcher and somehow it evolved into self care sucks, period!
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With Self-Care you're in a much higher risk of being downed again. 32 seconds is a lot to go to a healed state.
Let's look up each scenario, considering that the gen isn't nearly done:
a) You waste 25 seconds healing yourself and the survivor fixes a gen within the same 25 seconds. One person fixes a gen at 1 one charge per second, meaning the gen gets 25 charges. (a gen has 80 charges, 25 charges - 20% of a gen)
b) You (injured) and your teammate do a gen together for 25 seconds. Two people fix a gen by 1,7 charge per second, meaning that a gen gains 42,5 charges within this time period (that's nearly 53% of a gen)
c) The survivor heals you up (16 seconds) and you have a gen fixed by nearly 9 seconds. Considering the same repairing speed, that means that a gen gains 15,3 charges (nearly 19% of a gen)
Now, let's say a killer with PGTW approaches you. Pop decreases the overall progress by 25% and a killer doesn't allow you to heal yourself when you're injured, so if you were healing yourself, you have to stop and run. Let's look up the result of each scenario in this case:
a) You need to heal yourself for another 7 seconds and a good killer won't really allow you do that, you need to move. A gen fully looses its progress. If a killer catches you, your overall 2 people progress goes to 0! Simply the worst case scenario.
b) The gen saves 28% of its progression (53% - 25% = 28%). But you may go down, this one is surely better than the previous one.
c) You may juke a killer for a much greater time because you're healed. The gen goes down but not much time was wasted on it anyways.
I don't know about you but I would certainly avoid A at all cost. Risks are too high and the reward probably doesn't worth it.
One thing for sure, Inner Strength is a much better healing perk, but I agree that it sometimes relies on luck. But I'm pretty sure that you'll find a totem or a locker by just going from one gen to another without wasting that much of extra time. Instead of wasting 32 seconds with solely Self-Care, you waste nearly 26 seconds with Inner Strength (include the time you cleanse a totem, enter and exit a locker).
All in all, the only worthy things you choose from to heal up by yourself are Self-Care+Botany:
- 2 perks!
- 5 additional seconds to self healing which can be affected by other perks
- You heal others faster and save 4 seconds if there aren't any slow-down perks (that kinda pays off the additional time you waste healing yourself)
- Your aura is visible (Say hi to BBQ and Nurse's)
- You have to waste 19 seconds during one period of time (Inner Strength allows you to separate 16 seconds you cleanse a totem and 10 seconds you actually heal up)
- Infinite amount of usages (usually helps when killers try to deal mass damage)
And Inner Strength:
- 1 perk!!
- 16 seconds to activate the perk, but 6 seconds less time to actually heal yourself up
- Stable result (isn't affected by any slow-down perk)
- No aura-reading (only one threat - Iron Maiden, don't think that Rancor, Infectious Fright do that much to this perk)
- Higher chances of getting rid of NOED
- Still a bit RNG based (locker and totem placements, plus, your teammates may cleanse totems you need to heal up)
- Only a few uses (but most of the times you need to heal up 2-3 times)
I don't know about you, but the fact that Inner Strength takes up only one perk slot surely makes it worth equipping. You have 3 super meta perks: Dead Hard (prolongs chases), Borrowed Time (prolongs the time your teammates live) and Decisive Strike (prolongs the time you live). I'm not sure which one you can replace with Botany, because the amount of time these perks give you during a match is incomparable.
(PS: sorry for mistakes, it's kinda late in my region.)
Post edited by WRussoW on0 -
Of course Inner Strength is a better healing perk, that is not the discussion. It is about the statement that Selfcare is bad in any way, which is not true.
And I think it was often enough said that you can use it in a bad way, so in all of your scenarios you need to consider. If you prefer to work on a gen than healing, this would probably be a quick down. Surely a stupid idea when you are on death hook.
And a good killer doesn't allow you to heal? Are you saying that on average survivors are not healing? I wouldn't agree to that. Also an argument that has been raised, you need to find good healing spots. You surely don't heal next to a gen (or in the edge of the map) Btw if 32 seconds is too much to heal and the "good" killer would not allow that, you could also say that the good killer doesn't allow you to fix a gen for 32 seconds, applying the Pop in any case. This is a pretty situational assumption. I would again say, it depends. If you are not on death hook and this is a critical gen regarding a 3 gen, yeah, go down. If you are on death hook or the gen is far outside, don't grant the killer the easy down. That throws your team over if this isn't the last gen.
Regarding your Pop scenarios: Let's put Ruin in instead. If I have selfcare I would punch a survivor letting go of that gen to heal me. That would be a loss of 12 charges on the gen. So, again a situational decision, depending on perks.
And in the perk comparison, you again say "wasted time healing yourself". Again, mentioned several times, if you get healed by others, it is the others' time you waste as well. Again, especially with Botany, healing yourself is more efficient: it takes you 19 seconds to heal, someone else healing you takes 16 seconds for him and for you, which is 32 seconds of "wasted" time. And again: it is wasted when you don't finish it, otherwise you get it back during the chase. That is resource investment.
Beneath all the situations where you can simply play it bad, there is just to say that Selfcare is not wasting time, it is the survivor wasting time healing at the wrong time or in the wrong place. And the strength of Selfcare is simply that you can heal whenever you need it. No "nothing I can do right now, sorry"
Beneath that, I don't get some of your numbers. Why heal 25 seconds? Why stop in the middle? 20 charges of a gen is 25%, 25 charges is 31%. And how do you get to the 28% regression in 2b? Which 6% in 2c?
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Don't do math at 4 am.
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Inner strength is, somewhat amusingly, way too meta. I'm not even kidding, the number of times I get to the endgame and see 2-3 people running it is insane, it's about a third of my matches these days. People have attacked me for cleansing totems that they wanted. I have watched morons throw the game trying to cleanse totems entirely for the heals. It actually wierds me out sometimes, it's a paid dlc perk and it's becoming very, very common at high ranks. That alone butchers it's usefulness, since everyone is using a consumable resource instead of just 1 person.
SC/Botany is just more reliable. It's about the same time as a normal heal when you factor in travel time, but it's a lot safer and you heal everyone quicker. Plus you can pull off the old self-care-chase trick, though I would advise not doing that against a huntress as I just tried to. I don't know why I did that. But I did.
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So what do you wanna tell me with that? Any feedback to what I wrote beneath that?
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Everytime I see someone using Self Care as a Solo Survivor, it makes me feel like I am obligated to tie them up and strap them onto a generator while the Killer comes and grab them.
The amount of times I've seen Claudettes especially Self Care RIGHT NEXT TO ME WHILE I WAS DOING A GENERATOR AND INSISTS OF JUST SELF CARING WHEN I AM RIGHT THERE IS TOO MUCH TO COUNT.
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Hey at least they remain next to a gen. Seen others that will run away from their team mates and run all the way to the other side of the map, just to self care.
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Its still dumb how they insist on Selfcaring when I am practically begging to heal them.
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True. Since by using self caring in that way, they are just putting themselves in danger for longer with way more risk of the killer showing up. When they don't need to, when a team mate is right next to them.
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Kinda tried to rewrite stuff in my comment.
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Yep, I think the travel time is more wasteful than the actual healing time. People insist on being in a dark corner behind a tree to heal, like half killers don’t run Nurses call anyways
please, I’ve unhooked teammates with well make it and had them ignore me to self care
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Yeah i think that takes the cake right there. Oh hey your team mate has a 100% bonus to healing, he can heal you faster than sonic. Na let me just self care and make my team mate perk go to waste.
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You sure do like to group the entirety of people who use Self-Care in one bag, huh? Yes, we've all experienced the Blendette who is Self-Caring in a corner of the map while you're dying on hook and the other survivor is being chased, but that is the SURVIVOR not the PERK. To even compare it to something as terrible as No Mither is a joke and you are over-exaggerating to make a really terrible point. Let me just point out that list you made:
Inner Strength, a DLC perk that not everyone has paid for. Also relying on finding totems and that the rest of your team doesn't cleanse them. I've had this happen plenty of times and Inner Strength did nothing for me all game.
Adrenaline, literally only activates once all 5 gens are done.
Pharmarcy, a really terrible perk in another DLC that not everyone has paid for.
We'll Make It, doesn't increase the speed you heal yourself
Botany Knowledge, is ideally what you should be running if you choose to run Self-Care. It's not a waste of 2 perks slots.
Plunderers, is useless trying to argue about since you have a higher chance of getting something other than a medkit
Resilience, seems fine to pair it with Self-Care since it would increase healing speed and vault speed during chase. But if you run Resilience, you may as well run a more efficient ''vault/gen rush'' build of Resilience, Spine Chill, Iron Will and Dead Hard and stay injured all game. But that's not everyone's playstyle.
For The People, again, doesn't heal yourself. Kind of situational. Keeps you broken for a while. Not comparable to Self-Care. If anything this perk is only consistent in SWF groups. But I do enjoy using it.
Overall, you can't dictate how players should play this game.
If they want to be able to heal themselves, that's okay. But if they have the wrong PRIORITIES, like healing over keeping your teammates alive, then it's an issue. But it's not an issue with Self-Care, it's an issue with that player. I've encountered many good players who use Self-Care effectively.
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Agreed.
Self-Care can be useful by itself or with Botany with a med kit in those cases as a solo survivor the healing is fast and can help you get a last minute save or protection hit.
Still I agree with the others that are saying to run Bond. I'd also throw in it would be better to run Empathy, Bond or Kindred. Empathy especially since you can see who is being chased which is a lot of information (even though the perk says it doesn't work in those situations, it does).
Self-Care hasn't been a meta perk since the healing nerf a while back. Add on Sloppy butcher, thana or dying light and the self heal can take about the time it would take to do half a gen yourself.
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Self Care is generally used by less skilled players who can’t loop killers. As a killer, I tend to see the good survivors who can loop running Resilience, Spine Chill, etc. and never Self Care. A smarter player will bring in a medkit because it’s faster and opens up a perk slot.
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Still don't get why you calculate 25 seconds + 7 for a heal. And there is no difference between a and b, both means 25% progression loss. That means, going down for it is so not worth it to be honest. And still all my other comments to your post are valid imo
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