I understand why so many survivors use DS...
I haven’t played survivor in a while as I’ve mostly been doing killer matches. I started playing some survivor again tonight as a friend I haven’t played with in a while invited me. I’m playing Jeff and I in no way play toxic as I know how annoying that is to go against as a killer. But almost every game I’ve been tunnelled straight off the hook just because I can put up a decent chase and it takes killers a while to down me. That’s if they down me at all. It’s so ridiculous. I’ve just had a Freddy literally push past other survivors to target me and me only. I’ll never understand that mindset. I don’t like using DS as I find it a waste of a perk, but it’s like I’m being pushed into using it again. It always seems to be Freddy’s that are the worst for it and I don’t know why as he’s one of the easiest killers to play in the game.
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Ds is great for tunnelers
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I know, but I get bored of using the same perks. But recently almost every game I play are with killers that tunnel or slug. It’s so boring. This is why I ditched survivor and went to play killer.
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I feel the same way. I got tired of using DS, DH, BT, and some other meta perk, and I try to use other fun builds instead, but then I just get tunneled and/or camped.
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It appears to me (from my experience) that killer will only tunnel if you manage to waste so much of their time and outplay them.
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I can argue the opposite. It's not the killers fault, it's the survivors who unhooked. If the killer is close enough to even catch you straight off the hook, than the blame should be placed on the survivor who did the rescuing, especially without BT. They basically farmed you for points. Can you really blame the killer if you're pulled off hook in their face, and the rescuer doesn't at least take a protection hit, instead sprinting to the nearest pallet?
Now, I'm not saying hardcore tunneling doesn't exist, and is a pretty unfair playstyle around it. I understand in a lot of cases killers will tunnel, simply for the sake of doing it. But on the other hand, I feel at least part of the blame comes down to survivors not knowing when or how to safely rescue somebody.
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Yea when you play both sides you really start to see the reasoning behind the use of certain perks and playstyles. I don't use Ds though because I usually don't even need it because someone else is almost always running it which is usually enough to deter the killer from tunneling me. If they find out I don't have it though oh man they are on my ass but luckily I'm a decent looper and if my teammates are doing what they're supposed to be doing then all the gens will get done and I get my adrenaline and I'll most likely escape but if I do die my teammates get to escape. If they aren't doing gens and I die for nothing then I blame my team for that.
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The ironic thing about it is, the other survivors who don’t get tunnelled are the ones using DH, DS and other exhaustion perks. But there’s me and Jeff using stuff like Aftercare and Pharmacy and we’re targeted for being hard to catch. Am I supposed to just purposely play bad so the killers show mercy? Haha.
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To be fair: You're using a perk(Aftercare) whose sole counter is hooking the person using it.
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Nope, if you play (purposely) bad the killer will tunnel you because you are the weakest link and one out means easier pressure and you should git gud.
notice a pattern? Yeah most killers will just tunnel the first one hooked.
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That's nonsense. There are lots of bad and/or mad killers that always tunnel and camp the sh!t out of survivors no matter what they did or not did. And it doesn't even matter if against solos or SWF.
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That's the exact same thing that happens to me when I play killer. I don't always want to use the meta. Sometimes I'll pick pig and mess around with a meme build. Then I get a 4 man of reds that all run DS, BT, Adren and DH.
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So, what's about killers like hag, demo or Freddy who can teleport across the map? Still survivors fault when they instantly come back to tunnel? Maybe the survivors should wait till the killer is out of the Map so they can unhook safely without getting tunneling omegalul
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Well of course, Killer can’t tunnel if no survivor gets unhooked! It’s all the survivors fault!
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I wasn’t the first one hooked. And I’m definitely not the weakest link so don’t even try that with me. They tunnelled me because I was hard for them to catch. Both the Claudette’s in my Freddy game went down almost within seconds of being injured first. Were they tunnelled? Nope. I am chased for 3 gens and then the killer deliberately walks through other injured teammates just to down me again at the hook. It was because they were salty. It’s stupid to punish somebody for being a good player.
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Because it's a free get out of jail card with no downside
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That's completely irrelevant. The killer has no way of knowing if you’re running that perk.
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I understand what you’re saying but you weren’t in my games. The killers were walking past other injured survivors just to target me because I was hard to catch and they weren’t. It’s happened to me plenty of times before which is one of the reasons I switched to playing killer. I was getting sick of killers who can’t handle being outplayed and spit out their dummy. It’s ridiculous. I even had a random Claudette message me after one of the games saying and I quote “that killer had a boner for you” as she even tried to take a hit for me at one point when she was injured and the Freddy just walked around her.
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Aftercare is one of Jeff's teachable perks. Its always safe to assume a survivor has at least one of the teachable perks of that survivor(For example: Every killer expects Davids to have Dead Hard even at low ranks).
I agree with tunneling that some killers do is BS but there are situations where killers do have to get 1 person out of the game as fast as possible to stand a chance.
I am not defending killers blindly tunneling just in most cases there are explanations beyond the killer just wanting to be a dick(Idk you pissed them off by t-bagging at a pallet that or someone else pissed them off to the point they are talking it out on everyone) that you either don't notice as a survivor or can't tell.
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I didn’t try anything with you. I was just saying that there is not one reason why killers tunnel. One tunnels because you are hard to catch, the other because you are easy to catch. You can’t change your playstyle to not get tunneled (I was referring to you „play purposely bad“ part).
but then again, if you were so good, were was even the problem? You wasted time of the killer, others could do gens, you even get points for lightbringer-Emblem for distraction. Also most killers are slugging for the DS timeframe anyway.
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^ this.
I had exactly one game recently where I did not use DS - when I tried the Dwight-Challenge of Level 3. Against Freddy. He was in a chase, I got unhooked, he came back via Teleport, tunneled me. No unsafe Unhook, nothing.
This was one "Never again without DS"-moment for me.
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Sorry, I didn’t mean to come off so passive aggressive. I misread your reply as I was distracted when I was doing so and I thought you were doing the typical “git gud scrub’ response that far too many people overuse.
But, I definitely see your point. It’s just stupid that you’ll be targeted for being a strong player. You shouldn’t have to dumb down your play style so you don’t hurt the killers feelings. I guess it’s just one of the downsides of playing with real people.
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So, survivors can make no mistakes, and it's all the killers fault for an 'unfun' game, eh?
Please. If a survivor leads the killer back to hook, then ditches the rescued survivor, who's at fault if the killer goes after the weaker target? It goes both ways. The killers job is to, you know, KILL! If the survivor is going to farm you off hook without protecting the unhooked target from a dangerous situation, why blame the killer? They're doing their job.
'There are lots of bad and/or mad survivors that always farm the *** out of their fellow survivors.' Simply because it's survivor vs killer, doesn't also mean it isn't survivor vs survivor out there.
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I have survived some games just because I had DS. I think it is one of the best perks in the game. It is like the only thing in the game that lets you inflict some violence back at the killer besides head on I think.
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No problem. Just wanted to clear it up, hope that wasn’t rude (language barrier).
with these kinds of killers, there is just no way to please them. If you really dumb down your playstyle they are the ones that will cry „git gud“. Not saying all killers are like this obviously. And there are certainly enough survivors with the same mentality :D
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How does Tunneling off hook translate to “survivors were being altruistic”?
Many times killers camp or proxy camp... waiting. How on the heck are survivors suppose to force the killer to move from that position? At that point there is no alternative.
What the OP described isn’t even what you are trying to argue. Everyone knows different scenarios exist and to only see one single scenario to back up your argument is simply narrow minded.
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It always seems to be Freddy’s that do it the most. I’m still not using DS in my matches I’m playing with my friend as I don’t want to feel forced to use it. I just understand why a lot of people do use it. I try to make the game as fun as I can, regardless of whether I’m playing survivor or killer. But not everybody looks at things that way. Just like I said earlier in the thread, it’s the risk you take by playing with real people.
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I don't use it because I prefer other perks, but as a solo survivor I totally understand the reason DS is so popular and I'm happy when killers get punished for tunneling a teammate. What I don't understand is survivors who try to force its use against a non-tunneling killer (me in particular). That's just stupid, it's a one-time use perk and this behavior makes me want to tunnel the guy.
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@Johnny_XMan Why does it make sense to pull somebody off hook with the killer nearby, and not expect the killer to go after the weak link? I don't understand why it must always be the fault of the killer for capitalizing on survivor mistakes.
I understand what the OP was speaking about, i did agree with him in my first post. There are hardcore tunnelers that will go out of their way to tunnel somebody out of a match, I don't deny that. But at the same time, I also acknowledge that a good portion of cases where survivors scream 'tunneling,' it's either on them (running back into the killer, for instance), or their team, for taking them off hook when the killer is right there.
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Yep.
My first match of the day today was against a trapper who, upon downing the first person, hooked them in the open and face camped them with insideous so BT wouldn't work. Literally just stood one foot from their face. Didn't go for the off-hooker. Just fully intent to camp and tunnel them if someone attempted an off-hook. It's not that you can't "just do gens" in this situation...it's that this just sucks the fun out of the game. :/
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And this lack of learning to make good saves continues to perpetuate itself because of perks like BT which remove the need for ever learning.
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I love when people say, "I got tunneled because I put up a good chase." Well then you wouldn't have been "tunneled".
You got tunneled because either: 1) You're easy to catch. 2) Your teammates farmed unhooks without caring about your safety.
It's one or both. It's not because you're so good. If you were that good, you wouldn't be getting caught enough to whine about some imaginary tunneling.
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Yeah if you're good and you're being tunneled, that's a good thing. Team can easily get gens done.
You're probably not as good as you're thinking you are.
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Your logic makes absolutely no sense. As if Killer's don't return to hooks to tunnel survivors that out play them with long drawn out chases.
If a survivor gets tunneled it is 100% always because a Killer chose to tunnel them. Can another survivor make that easier for the Killer by doing an unsafe off-hook? Sure. Can the Killer return to the hook as the off-hook is happening and give the survivor no real choice? Sure. But it is not the fault of the off-hooked survivor that they were A) camped or B) tunneled, when they did nothing but play the game normally. The choice to tunnel is 100% on the Killer. And absolutely happens because Killers get bent when they choose to waste their own time on a single survivor for a long period of time.
The idea that a survivor is only good if they don't ever get caught is extremely ignorant. This game is completely designed for survivors to get caught. The last patch - one of the biggest change patches ever implemented - was specifically meant to make that even easier for Killers. In addition to every other advantage killers have in a chase: faster movement speed, ranged or immobilizing abilities, survivors have limited resources or limited use of static resources, Killer latency + hit priority making unsafe palettes pretty useless...give me a ######### break. Survivors are SUPPOSED to get caught. Pro survivors get caught ALL THE TIME. If there was a way for survivors to fully out run every killer, every time, there would be no game.
FFS. SMFH.
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The smartest play is to tunnel the weakest person out of the game as quickly as possible. It just is. DS helps make killers second guess that. Its a good perk. I think its a little long, but otherwise, good
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I never said that you'd never get caught. Nice strawman.
Also, the killer doesn't control any part of the situation when it comes to unhooking. (Except a facecamping Bubba, I guess) If your team is unhooking you in the killers face without all the proper defense, that's the survivors fault. If you can't move away and hide without getting tracked easily after an unhook, that's the survivors fault.
You sure as hell aren't being "tunneled" for "being too good". That's for sure.
Stop blaming killers for killing.
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Except, it's quite literally what you said: "If you were that good, you wouldn't be getting caught enough to whine"
...of course you would, because you should be getting caught every match unless you're matched with an under-skilled Killer. So you would have the opportunity to whine about it every. single. match. because it's a rampant play style. 🙄
None of what you described is the UNHOOKED survivor's fault. NONE of it. If a Killer proxies a hook to return for off-hook with the full intent of tunneling (which happens ALL THE ######### TIME)...no one has control over that EXCEPT THE KILLER. A survivor who goes in with the TR is gone and is mid-animation when the TR comes back has ZERO CONTROL over the tunnel. In that VERY FREQUENT situation there is ZERO opportunity for the unhooked survivor to "move away" and hide without getting caught. Noises are louder. Blood stains. Scratch marks. Whispers. You have to be ######### kidding me. You clearly never play survivor.
Abso-#########-lutely no one "blames killers for killing"...we call killers to the carpet who play like complete ######### douchebags, which is a category you obvious fall into, considering you cannot defend camping, tunneling, and slugging enough. Learn to actually play this game. It might shock you to know there are OTHER OBJECTIVES besides butt-######### survivors off a hook. Maybe look them up sometime. 👍️
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Lay off the caffeine for a minute, Mister Furious.
Again, you're just blaming the killer for killing people. You don't ever even articulate what you think the killer should be doing. All you do is tell them what not to do. Which is basically everything under the sun, in every thread.
"Don't be near the hook."
"Don't go back to the hook."
"Don't hit injured people."
"Don't chase someone you chased before."
I mean, if a killer is in range, in what world do you think they're NOT going to head back to the hook when the sound goes off? At least half the team is verified to be there now, what do you think the right play here is? No, I'm not asking about your imaginary rules, I'm asking what you think the killer should be doing most of the time in that situation if they're in range?
You tell me to "learn to play" and yet you absolutely ooze the mentality of someone that doesn't want to play the game, they want people to play by the special rules they invent in their head.
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I have encountered killers who tunnel a survivor because they did good. Is it so unbelievable that a killer can get tilted and take it out on the survivor? I'm not saying there aren't reasons to tunnel, but at the end of the day, the killer actively makes that choice and sometimes it's because they're tilted.
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"I got tunneled because I'm so good" is not only a silly fantasy, it would be exactly what the team wants if they were actually that good.
The reality is that it's the weakest link that gets caught and "tunneled" because they're so easy to catch. No killer is going out of their way to identify the best player and "tunnel" them, unless they feel like throwing the match.
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And this is why the perk exists.
Because Aholes can't play fair.
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Amen 😌
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I use DS in most games but I have a code? To using it, if thats what you wanna call it. If the killer downs someone before my DS timer is up, I don't use it. I only do this with killers I feel played fair (i.e not tunneling off first hook, trying to hook everyone once before killing someone off)
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That happens sometimes. People get tilted. It's not unheard of. Someone leads the killer on a chase, killer gets mad, tunnels them off the hook. I've seen it.
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Sure, and then the killer is throwing the match. The great looper did their job, essentially.
In that case, everyone should be happy.
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I like playing Killer more, but I do think DS should exist because tunneling is a poor experience.
However it still needs a fix or two. As it is now, it's often used as 60 seconds of near invulnerability, such as boldly sitting on a gen and jumping in a locker if the killer approaches. And it punishes a killer who is playing well even if they didn't tunnel. I've had plenty of situations where I hook a person, person gets unhooked, chase and down another person, hook person I just downed, chase someone, see recently unhooked guy go for save, down him, and now I can't pick him up, if I leave I leave 2 survivors there to be quickly saved and the game is basically forcing me to camp because DS exists and nobody is happy.
I think this perk needs to go on cd if another survivor is hooked while it's active, if the unhooked survivor gets healed to full (as they are no longer in imminent danger) or if the survivor starts doing a generator because by doing so they are saying they are not being tunneled and are safe enough to work on the objectives.
A couple fixes to make it less low risk high reward would be great.
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Thats the part that always confused me. If youre not being chased youre literally just holding a button watching a status bar tick by. People say all the tine that the chase is the fun part of this game. So if thats true shouldnt the one being tunneled be the one having the most fun? And if they did keep the killer busy while 3 or 4 gens got done, wouldnt that them the flippin mvp, the games basically over at that point. Shouldnt they be happy about that?
I play a lot of survivor, ive never once gotten mad at the killer
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It's because there's no logic to these complaints, just salt.
Edit: And yeah, like you I've never been mad at a killer. I get mad at myself a lot (probably to the point of getting too tilted to be useful) but never at the killer. The hell am I going to be mad about?
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True, but I completely understand solos running it because they can't know for sure that their team will do gens while they're being chased, or they can't communicate to their team that no one is coming to the hook or too many people are. And with how matchmaking is, the skill of your teammates is a mystery. Am I saying killers should never tunnel? No, but I don't have any issues with solos running DS.
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Yeah, of course solos should run DS. It's a good perk. I really have no issue with it on paper. It's just the combined usage in SWF's that gets overwhelming.
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I agree. SWF is a problem on its own.
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