DEVS CAN YOU JUST NERF ALL THE META PERKS
This goes for both killer & survivor. Recently made a post about why Freddy is annoying/boring & needs changes, mostly because of how strong he is with Pop & BBQ (I'm a solo player, so I rarely see a win against him because solo teams can't coordinate like SWF & every Freddy out there is super anti-gen). Everyone is comparing how these perks on Freddy is as boring as DH, DS, Unbreakable, Adrenaline, etc. on survivor. This is also true & it is pretty much the reason why most perks are barely seen in survivor builds. So the solution? Just nerf the meta. Most of these perks are way too strong to where they can influence the match greatly. While yes RNG of tiling also plays a role in a match's outcome as well as players' overall skill, perks on both sides can be abused to completely shift the tide of a match that isn't always rightfully deserved based on some players' skill/effort.
Survivors tend to have the worst of these meta perks, as there are so many second chance perks for them. Killers are mostly just trying to slow the game down with their perks, but if changes are to occur to survivor then some must happen for killer as well. Honestly don't know why the devs have let the meta stay the same for so long. The only metas I think they truly fixed were self care & balanced landing. They tried fixing DS, but somehow made it worse. All perks that give a killer/survivor a great benefit without much of a (or any) downside need to be adjusted. I'm also positive this would fix their gen speed issue they are currently plagued with. Gens go so fast because survivors have so many meta perks to rely on. This would also make other perks more common, with some still needing buffs of some kind. It's honestly the best & easiest way to fix the state of the game at the moment.
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They can't just nerf meta perks, because then new meta perks will pop up.
There will ALWAYS be a meta. It's just on how much variety there is to that Meta that is the question.
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At least a new meta will be refreshing. It will also fix how common these metas are. The pick rate of some of these meta perks is astronomical compared to most perks, which isn't a healthy sign.
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You say that now, but you probably won't say that when the new meta will be just the exact same as before. People will always find a way to play every Killer as strong as possible and play Survivor as optimally as possible.
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Making some other perks stronger would also help
Trail of Torment is good example for this it could be such a cool perk to give killers pressure without forcing survivors to hold m1 longer, but the short duration, long cooldown and the fact that it warns survivors just makes it that most people will go to the meta perks without downsides
If they made ToT stronger and remove the gen aura smart survivors might switch out some meta perks for alert or spine chill and that way the meta changes too
Making very strong perks that are countered by weaker ones will also change the meta up
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I left the game because devs aint reworking any perks and the meta is always the same. New perks are always weak and require 2 other perks to work, they are never strong on its own. If anyone asks about perk reworks, they keep bringing up tge monstrous shrine example, and doing nothing about it. In January they mentioned several perks reworks "that will come out soon", but after 3 patches not even one has changed.
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Doesn't mean it's a good idea to never change said meta :v
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Honestly what new metas could there be that are worse than what exists? Literally most survivors are about second chance perks, while most killers are about anti-gen or time wasting perks. Take those away & you'll open up the potential to find some dynamic gameplay. And if something else heavily meta comes along just change that up eventually too. Most games always have a meta, but it tends to usually get shaken up way more often compared to DBD.
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Here's a great non-meta build.
Sloppy Butcher, Corrupt, Make Your Choice and STBFL.
If the meta perks will be nerfed, a new meta will always emerge.
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Having a forced meta shift is actually a terrible idea. Want proof? Look at Overwatch when it changed character stats and values more often than anyone could keep up with, or just destroyed the entire Tank class because people FINALLY played the game how they wanted people to initially.
To me, the meta Survivor perks are forced by (some) killers not being punished for, and justifying, camping/tunnelling/mass slugging and all that lovely stuff that everyone except them hates. DS also isn't worse than what it was before. It's also funny how people keep mentioning this "Survivor second-chance meta" and I have seen the supposed build all of about 5 times. At red ranks. But I'm also on Xbox so things might be a little different.
Killer perks are also a bit more killer specific than your post seems to let on. The whole "gen-rush" thing is actually also an issue for survivors, with reds being able to barely pip within the confines of a normal game, or all dying to over-altruism. The issue with BBq is that it both A) gives off fantastic information and B) helps with the fact that regularly playing killer is a VERY BP taxing thing, since a lot of killers are very dependent on having add-ons, and high rarity ones depending on the killer. This BP tax for killer is something that should possibly be addressed.
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Just for the record, statistically the only perk with an astronomical pick rate is Self-Care. There may be good reasons to change the perks you mentioned, but disproportionate pick rate isn't one of them.
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Well, PH’s mere existence does this for you. Most meta perks have bad synergy/don’t work with him. DS, BT, Unbreakable, and Adrenaline are all poor choices against him, and Pop and BBQ don’t work with his cages.
His release is going to change the survivor meta a lot, since guaranteed perks don't always work anymore, since he ignores all of their favoirites. That is frankly a good thing.
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But he is only one Killer. You're more than likely to still gamble using those perks anyways because he isn't exactly going to be the most common Killer you find.
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Sloppy and STBFL are borderline meta for killer, though. : P
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No, they're actually meta.
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Yeah, but his existence will mean that survivors will be uncertain of a perk’s success. The only reason DS, and the rest of survivor meta perks are meta is because they are:
- easy to use
- guaranteed to actually apply to all killers.
Healing centered perks don't really apply against all killers, because Plague, Legion, and instadown killers can ignore them, Aura perks aren't great because there are stealth killers who can ignore them, and perks to counter a survivor’s aura reading.
This leaves just exhaustion perks and second chance perks. Second chance perks really do not work against PH. He can ignore them by purely using the cages. No deliverance from a cage, no DS or BT for rescued survivors, No need to slug when you can cage them instead.
Exhaustion perks are already distinct in that you can only run 1 at a time, so they have been scrutinized to see which is best and which is worst. And there are a few killers who can ignore them, like Trapper, Hag, Huntress, and Deathslinger (Plague technically can with corrupt purge).
Since there is no guarantee that any build will be 100% successful, survivors will have to find one that works for them. The threat of him alone does this. Granted, there will be survivors who don't learn to adapt, but they will always be taken down a peg.
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@BigBrainMegMain See, my point exactly.
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I don't think meta perks are that bad to go against, because there are ways to counter them or play around them in a lot of situations. Some of the pink and purple add ons in this game are pure evil though.
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You people will call Predator Meta if it fits your narrative.
Don't @ me anymore, this thread is beyond stupidity.
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No, it literally is Meta.
Sloppy slows down healing by 20%, which discourages survivors healing by themselves and rather heal with others.
and STBFL can make chases much much more faster to end.
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I always thought it was 25%, is it only 20? Damn it feels like a lot longer when trying to heal someone
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That's why it discourages survivors from healing. It feels longer than it's worth.
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Touché
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I think buffing perks to make more viable options is a better way to go. Having a bunch of solid options is better than making the current ones worse in my opinion. Of course I don't use the meta anyway so I suppose it doesn't really effect my day.
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A 20% speed decrease translates to 4 more seconds of healing, though. 4 seconds with a 110% (4,4 m/s) killer translates to 17,6 meters. With a 115% (4,6 m/s) killer, it's 18,4 meters. That means an arbitrary killer will have about 18 more meters of "path", if you will, before you're done healing.
Wake Up! is likewise looked down upon, but those 3 seconds translate to 13,2 (110%/4,4 m/s killer) or 13,8 (115%/4,6 m/s killer) meters of distance. In other words, the killer will be between 13 and 14 meters further away than if you'd opened the gate without the perk. I'm not saying it should be meta, but it shouldn't be underestimated either.
This is why DS is such a big problem. Those 4 seconds of stun (taking into account the drop animation) translate to 16 meters that the survivor can gain on the killer. A 110% killer chasing a 100% survivor moving in a straight line (no vaults or anything) would require 40 seconds to catch up to the survivor. A 115% killer would require about 27 seconds to do the same. Keep in mind that the difference between a 115% and 110% killer is 0,2 m/s - barely anything, at first glance.
Seconds matter in DbD. Even something as seemingly pointless as saving 3 seconds in an interaction makes a difference.
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Oh no I was asking because I always thought that it was 25%, because 25% of 16 is 4 so me not being very good at maths thought that just chucked an extra 4 seconds on. Didn't realise how the perk (and status) worked (it slows charges being put in apparently, not just making the time longer) which was my bad lol.
But thanks for the clarity my guy.
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It's a speed reduction, not a time increase. Look at it in terms of units.
Time is measured in seconds, which I'll represent with s.
Interactions are performed in terms of charges, which I'll represent with c.
Interaction speed is measured in charges per second, or c/s. The default speed is one charge per second, or 1 c/s.
So you have an interaction that requires 16 charges, at the speed of one charge per second. Let's look at the units:
c/(c/s) = c*s/c = s
In other words, if you divide the number of charges by the speed, you get the time it takes.
Now look at the value:
16/1 = 16
Therefore, at the speed of one charge per second, the interaction takes 16 seconds.
If the speed is reduced by 20%, you instead have:
16/(1 - 20%) = 16/(1 - 0,2) = 16/0,8 = 20
So if you reduce the speed by 20%, you increase the time by 4 seconds.
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Cheers mate
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I mean who's in is right mind would pick Hangman trick or Slippery Meat, they're TOO situationnal compared to "meta" perks you're sure to use at least once per game.
Thats the problem of many perks, certain has a great use every game, and MANY, MANY, others are way too situationnal or has to many requirements to put to good use (hello Ash perks !) or even has better counterparts (Hi Steve perks). or even just not really useful (wassup PH perks).
Who would pick Babysitter instead of borrowed time, Calm spirit over Iron will or spine chill over premonition. they're just better perks who has the same purpose.
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the perks wont change the gen speed, the gen speed is broken, the core problem with the game is weak killers, gen speed is too fast, hex totems are too easy to cleanse, and maps is complete rng, if a nerf should be done to perks, then bt t3 should be 30%, and ds t3 should be 40sec instead of 60,
and noed should be nerfed if the gens would get 30% nerf for their speed, but then if this happen then freddy fake pallet should be reduced to 4 fakes instead of 10, and his genslowdown perks should be reworked. for the sake of the weaker community lel.
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I think you mixed up Premonition and Spine Chill.
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ah survivor main logic
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How about buffing the 50+ trash perks in the game instead? Making everything ######### just increases the pile of ######### that this game is. Turning it into gold however would be a better addition.
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Excuse me ? There indeed weaker killers than others around but you can't make an asymetrical game with a perfect RNG each game, it woudn't be balanced at all for either of the sides. Thus this idea of making gen repairs higher would make slow down killers a nightmare in every rank.
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Thank you. Spine chill is better by FAR.
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How about survivors actually seeing the killer in lobby? See Trapper? Run small game. See a ghostface? Run spine chill or the like.
And/or have a perk pick ban where killers and survivors can ban certain perks in the lobby.
Thoughts?
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Bad idea. It'd just lead to survivors equipping builds specifically against whatever the killer is and/or last-second killer switching.
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You could easily force people to lock in to avoid that.
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Nerfing meta perks should only be done in extreme game breaking mechanics.
I'd rather see the countless underused perks to be better. Too many perks are too specific, too hard to activate or, you spend most of the game getting little to no benefit from them.
Mettle of Man for instance. You have to earn 3 protection hits before it will even activate and you get punished by revealing your aura to the killer and you become the obsession. If you combo this with other perks you might get an extra hit out of it, if everything goes right and the stars align during a summer or winter solstice... you might take an extra hit from Mettle of Man.
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Things can always be worse. To use another game, Overwatch had a 'dive' meta where the teams would choose highly mobile characters in a blitz attack style. Wasn't fun, and stuck around so long people wanted a meta change. After that came GOATS- the most oppressive and long lasting meta in the game's history, with no counterplay and almost no variation- the only way to have a chance of winning was to counter GOATS with GOATS. It was a nightmare.
The meta can always be worse- its bad now, but balance changes need to be thought out and careful lest the game becomes more meta-locked than it is now.
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This is not how balance in games works.
There are currently 146 perks in the game; of those, about 23 (roughly 16%) are "meta," going by Dennis Reep's tier list (which is obviously debatable but also a convenient shorthand for this discussion). This is a pretty normal ratio of awesome-to-awful, and it breaks down like this in any game with an abundance of options. Look at any fighting game, or League of Legends, or any other competitive game with an enormity of character options, and you will find that a small number of those options always rise to the top.
Balancing is hard, because changes have ripple effects, and those lead to unforeseeable consequences and shifts in the game's meta. That's why things get buffed, and nerfed, and re-buffed, and re-nerfed, and tweaked to eternity. There is no "perfect" balance point that doesn't just boil down to Ryu vs. Ken, it's an ever-evolving thing. It's just what is.
If Behaviour nerfed a bunch of the top-performing perks, it would just result in some other perks being considered the top, and then a bunch of other stuff would get buffed down the road, and we would be in the same boat with roughly the same ratio, and all that would have happened is a deck chair rearrangement.
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Not a survivor main in the slighest lol. I'm a rank 1 survivor & rank 3 killer currently...
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Self care is like that because of lower ranks. It's not that common in red ranks. In red ranks, DS, DH, & BT are definitely wayyyy more common than self-care. Unbreakable & a few of the other meta perks are more debateable.
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Yeah, new players still wind up reading guides with misguided "run Self-Care!" advice that teaches them super-bad habits, which they have to unlearn later.
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Perhaps on your region and at your platform, but remember that DBD is played globally across 4-5 different platforms, and the meta culture isn't the same everywhere.
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