We have temporarily disabled The Houndmaster (Bone Chill Event queue) and Baermar Uraz's Ugly Sweater Cosmetic (all queues) due to issues affecting gameplay.

Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on these and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
The Dead by Daylight team would like your feedback in a Player Satisfaction survey.

We encourage you to be as honest as possible in letting us know how you feel about the game. The information and answers provided are anonymous, not shared with any third-party, and will not be used for purposes other than survey analysis.

Access the survey HERE!

I believe I know why many assume Legion sucks

After I explain this, tell me what you think: So many people hate Legion because they assume things so quickly. They assume that because his power is too short/too slow due to the fact that too many maps are still too large for him to hit multiple people.

As a Legion main myself, I have learned this over time. The more people I hit, the stronger I become, which is obvious for any Legion main. But whenever people are spread out more, it kills me because I cannot hit multiple people. Even at places like the shack, it is hard to hit people due to looping. Even when you chase people in frenzy, he does not seem too much faster than normal. If devs moderately lengthen his power and slightly increase his speed and people don't assume things quickly, I believe he will be rated a considerably more powerful killer. To be honest, I really think what his power does truly is powerful, just short and slightly too slow. So what do you guys think? Please don't troll, but tell me what you guys honestly think.

Comments

  • FlamingkittyUmad
    FlamingkittyUmad Member Posts: 313

    The LEG

  • RizeAki
    RizeAki Member Posts: 1,209

    This is the real reason he is so awful he has about 10 penalties for using his power one that can’t even kill people. Yet spirit has only one penalty no sight but still has marks and noise and can kill people while running faster.

  • Ghoste
    Ghoste Member Posts: 2,135

    Imo it's because Legion was broken strong on release and has received a slew of nerfs since. If you played them in the early days, the difference in power level is massive compared to now.

  • Sonzaishinai
    Sonzaishinai Member Posts: 7,976

    Legion is one of those killers that will heavelly benifit from smaller maps

  • LALYTHIA
    LALYTHIA Member Posts: 1,656

    I really hope he does not get a longer power or a faster chase speed. As a survivor (I know, no one cares), his matches are already so long - especially after the last patch. Him being able to mend hit more people faster would just be so mind numbing. In red ranks, Legions I've experienced don't have an issue having, at a minimum, a balanced game and the matches are just long AF. Killers already hate Ormond. Can't we just vote this DLC out of the game? 😂

  • ZackaryFreeman
    ZackaryFreeman Member Posts: 42

    He's been my main killer for pretty much around 300 hours now.

    People simply say he sucks because once he's used his power and injured everyone, he's basically a loopable m1 killer with no power to really help him in chases and down people. While yes, in low ranks he's hella powerful because survivors will be constantly dropping like flies and healing constantly, in high ranks however, where survivors actually know how to counter and loop him, he has a much harder time to shine compared to other killers.

    I still do fine with him tho, while yes he does have his setbacks and problems, adapting and finding ways to overcome his weaknesses is in my opinion the learning curve you have to go through to actually become good at him. (pretty much every killer as well basically). But killers with many flaws such as Legion or Clown take much more effort to play well. They can still be effective and viable to a degree, but it will take much much more to do well with them than other killers such as Freddy, and even then they might still not be as viable.

    Yes his power is hard to chainstab in bigger maps, but that's why you learn to know when it's time to cancel your power and instead just walk to their last location seen with killer instinct or return to the survivor you last injured.

    Yes his power is really weak once survivors spread out, but that's just his specific weakness that comes with every single killer power.

    I see how you can have trouble hitting frenzy at the shack, I used to as well when I first started out, but I learned to anticipate survivor movements and even learn to mindgame/manipulate my red stain while in frenzy to get some cheeky hits in good loops.

    Yeah his frenzy running speed might seem slow at times, frenzy makes him move at 130% movement speed which is 15% faster than his normal walk speed. In my opinion his running speed is fine, you just need to time his frenzy correctly. He's already faster than regular cloaked wraith (wraith moves at 126% while cloaked) and while yeah sure a small buff to his speed might be nice, we must still take in account the counter play that the survivors can do to counter/evade his frenzy. If we made him too fast and too hard to counter, Legion would become the no skill-no brainer killer he used to be before, and survivors would be getting hit constantly while being able to do absolutely nothing against him. It's already rather easy to chain hits, so if we made it even easier, even people playing with their feets would be able to torment survivors with streaks of chainstabs. Sprint burst is indeed faster than frenzy, but not for long as frenzy lasts longer and eventually catches up. Heck, I'd even say that the fact that you can lose your power in frenzy if you miss a swing/get stunned gives me a sense of thrill every time I play him and makes chaining hits much more satisfying.

    Now I might sound like I'm saying that Legion is fine the way he is, but honestly I agree that he needs a retouch, especially to his add ons as most are just plain outdated, and a few slight buffs to his power such as increasing power duration, power recovery speed and decreasing frenzy fatigue duration would be great.

    So while Legion has many drawbacks and flaws, there are ways to "bypass" them and still do well with the killer. It's easy to injure survivors with him but hard to actually down them, but that is why as any other M1 killers, you learn to mindgame. It's even easier to mindgame as Legion because they are very small compared to other big m1 killers such as trapper or wraith.

    He is SO close to being a good killer who can actually pressure multiple survivors well, he just needs a few tiny buffs and his hitbox to be fixed so that he can properly bodyblock while fatigued.

  • Milo
    Milo Member Posts: 7,383

    Diffrences:

    • Legion can use his power to injure a lot of survivors in short time (can), Spirit must use her power "efficiently" to do it in quick successions
    • Legion - no tracking, Spirit - no vision (with "less" tracking cause no blood)
    • Spirit's power can down, Legion's cannot
    • Legion is 115% while Spirit is 110%.
    • Legion has a stun and must use his power at full gauge (which this should get it's numbers worked on), Spirit only needs to wait for her power.

    You can't compare these two tbh because their powers are in the end diffrent.

  • Yamaoka
    Yamaoka Member Posts: 4,321

    Personally I think Legion is just overall weak even if he was even faster in Frenzy than now because:

    Their power is designed to beat BAD survivors in the first place by quickly injuring them without the opportunity to end chases quickly with said power.


    Good survivors never heal. In fact some of them will thank you for injuring them as good survivors often use Resilience turning an injury into a slight action speed buff. On top of that they will still manage to not go down immediately if you come back to down them. As a result gens will fly like nothing and your power can do nothing about it.


    Now bad survivors on the other hand will run like headless chickens when you frenzy them, mend in a corner, never touch a gen while injured, self care in a corner etc. all while you're on the other side of the map chasing/downing another survivor.


    As a result you feel like you're "becoming stronger" as you describe it when in reality it's the result of bad survivor decisions.


    However due to the current rank reset and easy pipping/ranking pretty much everyone gets to red ranks (on both sides) at this point resulting in numerous weak players that will often "play in your hands" allowing you to dominate with just about any killer even with suboptimal builds.


    That's why I temporarily thought Bubba was actually a decent killer. I kept getting 4ks in 2 minutes on red ranks. But it wasn't because of Bubba's potential. It was because I played him for 4k hours and thus managed to use his chainsaw perfectly while red ranks is flooded with mediocre players.


    Weak killer + player that uses 100% of the weak killer's potential VS mediocre survivors = easy 4k.

  • Gomolazoli
    Gomolazoli Member Posts: 336
    edited June 2020

    He was never broken strong. Legion sucked since release.

  • Gomolazoli
    Gomolazoli Member Posts: 336

    No survivors are that good. You can’t afford being injured all the time. Gens are often in unsafe areas too. You can be a 10k hours survivor main, you‘ll still go down instantly when you’re outpositioned after failing that cringy 360.

  • Decarcassor
    Decarcassor Member Posts: 651
    edited June 2020

    The reason why a lot of players rate The Legion very low is not because of the duration and speed of Feral Frenzy, but because of the non-lethal nature of their power. Legion must end chases as a regular M1 killer. And also becaue of the very underwhelming nature of Deep Wound as a detrimental effect to the survivors.

    The Devs overcorrected Legion super hard when they reworked him, and then they changed the way Deep Wound works, moslty because of Freddy and some new unintented perks interaction.

    Legion has been slowly un-nerfed one update after another and I hope it won't stop there. I can't blame the devs for being carefull with the Legion given how abusable and broken their original design was. Thats probably why they are taking their sweet time to change Frank's Mix Tape and Stab Wound Study.

    Maybe in future updates we will see the loss of Frenzy gauge on basic attack removed and the Deep Wound duration normalized to 20 seconds like every other source of DW in the game.

  • OniWantsYourMacaroni
    OniWantsYourMacaroni Member Posts: 5,944

    Stab wound study + Frank's Mixtape

    Legion would like to have a word with you

  • Ghoste
    Ghoste Member Posts: 2,135

    Yes he was. Are we forgetting the whole Frank's Mix Tape fiasco?

  • Gomolazoli
    Gomolazoli Member Posts: 336

    Legion with Frank’s tape was basically like deffault Spirit now. A guaranteed down that over all took about the same time and effort to achive. But without add-ons, he was trash. There was littearly no optimal way playing them.

    Hit deep wounded ppl, be punished and hit them 2 more times before they go down. Or just use the power for information and chain attacks, than you’re a 110% speed M1-er.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671
    edited June 2020

    It's because Deep Wounds is a laughable effect that isn't worth much. His fatigue is so long that it resets the chase. People just won't heal either making your power near useless and now he's just an m1 killer walking around getting pallet looped all game. He suffers from similar issues as the Plague does. Yes you can 1 shot now but there are enough pallets and loops to have all the gens done before they run out. Being injured isn't as dangerous as the devs think it is. It's why you just start Mending in his face as soon as he hits you.

  • Yamaoka
    Yamaoka Member Posts: 4,321

    I play exactly as I described it as survivor. I never heal and use Resilience to get a reward for injured gameplay. If you combine it with Spine Chill and any exhaustion perk of your choice you have a high chance of getting a headstart when/if the killer is coming and the exhaustion perk usually does the rest.

    On top of that I'm getting the vault speed benefits of the perk combination making it even more difficult to down me.

    I've been refusing to heal and hide for around a year now and honestly noticed I've consistently been the most useful survivor in most games. I usually fix multiple gens on my own (often while injured), distract the killer for multiple minutes and most of the time I also open the gate while others are crouching in a corner healing themselves (and getting downed in the process because of Nurse's Calling).

  • MadArtillery
    MadArtillery Member Posts: 826

    Honestly duration is definitely a big part of why a lot of killers are a bit weak. Legion, Bubba, Pig, there's a lot of things that if they just lasted longer they'd probably be great but as is are only serviceable. Maybe with the whole touchup to clown a few other killers can get those small but critical tweaks.

  • OhMyWords
    OhMyWords Member Posts: 230

    You never played legion before the rework have you? I'll explain.

    Old Legion's power sucked and it was only good for chasing 1 survivor a very long time (without stab wounds study or frank's mixtape). He was EXTREMELY FAST for a very short duration, so you wouldn't score more than 1 or 2 survivors, then chase the second one till down, either by %110 ms or feral frenzy spam. Devs "rework" legion to have so many unnecessary penalties and slow him down significantly, with vault and sprint speed nerfs, but give him few more secs on the duration. This makes him a generic m1 killer with a power that counters noobs because noobs tend to group. I'm sure you can imagine how it was possible to actually loop legion, the one killer that theoretically CANNOT be looped in their power due to mimicking actions of survivors at a much higher speed.

    Fast forward a whole bunch of legion requests and there was also a #FixLegion movement in here that annoyed people but ultimately, legion got some of the old speed back. This allowed legion to actually deny SOME loops (with a full duration).

    Now we have this half-assed legion. Still needs some work such as removing basic attack lowering the gauge bar or missing an attack ending the power. Still effective, but easily stoppable. If legion can't snowball, he's an useless m1 killer like Trapper.

  • 28_stabs
    28_stabs Member Posts: 1,470
    edited June 2020

    Any killer who is designed to only punish survivor mistakes is doomed to suck. Also, the Legion has non lethal power. If you cant down with a power, nor cause a permanent damage, the power is near useless.

This discussion has been closed.