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Why are the Updates so slow?
I don't understand how they're taking so long with making much needed bug fixes and updates to the game. We haven't had an real update in about a month now...why am I still experiencing close to unplayable bugs in every single match, the movement glitch that came into the game after the recent Map changes update still hasn't been fixed forcing survivor movement to be horrible after a unhook (you can't run properly, clip onto object easier etc..).
That Legion window glitch is laughable and how that isn't being a instant hot fix baffles me...
Dropping Pallets and getting smacked through them every time and ridiculous lunge hits (killers just getting spoon fed hits and kills because of this) more so a dedicated server issue but still a broken thing about this game...
There's still bugs persistent in the game that were there when i start playing a year ago (invisible people in the lobby, horrible frame-rate issues on xbox)
I get there's a Global crisis going on but they've said everyone is able to work on the game remotely pretty much at the same pace...but hey at least we're getting a mediocre Chapter & new cosmetics :)
Excited for the future updates with the graphics updates, cross-play etc...but how can they really be happy about pumping new Chapters and Cosmetics into a game that's effectively in Beta.
Perk changes, Balance changes NEED to be addressed weekly, this is the problem with games like this, they BULK update a game and then it takes ages for people to get used to the new stuff, why is stuff not gradually introduced to ease the player base into new things...Key's, Mori's, NOED "broken survivor/killer perks" have been talked about and complained about for months! Still haven't heard or seen ANY plans to balance around these things.
They keep saying this is a "Live" game. But in reality a Live game wouldn't be getting a update every 6-8 weeks that creates more game breaking bugs that don't get fixed for a further 6-8 weeks.
These dev streams prior to the anniversary one were LAUGHABLE they picked the same topic of discussion and repeated themselves over and over again...then when something interesting got asked or came up they were "oh yeah we've been thinking about that, it may or may not happen" "we can't give a time-frame for this fix"....yadda yadda yadda
This game is an amazing idea and it's being Poorly executed.
Comments
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thats another post to see how Bad the Community is....
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First off, let me just put into context.
BHVR as a whole company only employs 500 Employees. That's not 500 Developers, that's 500 employees.
Meaning they don't have 500 people working on the code of the game. That's up to the programmers. Which as far as I can tell, isn't exactly a big enough team to do weekly changes like what you're asking.
They are not a huge company like Rockstar or Ubisoft, and their resources are rather limited, so weekly updates would just not be possible for them to do.
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Programming isn't as simple as you seem to believe. Even putting that aside, you can't do weekly balance changes because one week isn't enough to see how the game changes (if at all) due to the changes you made last week.
Have you considered the fact that people complaining about something doesn't mean it's actually broken? People have been complaining about NOED since the game was launched and it's been nerfed twice since then. Even still, the complaints continue.
PS: They used to update quite regularly. Back then, people were complaining about having too many updates.
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Beyond anything else I think this post really highlights how entitled many in the gaming community have become. When did we start demanding weekly updates? moaning when we don’t always get what we want. Being critical is fine (I’ve given my fair share of criticisms) but more and more I see posts that really are just pure entitlement.
It’s ridiculous, DBD has some issues but I can see they are at least trying... the game has made strides and is in a much better state now.
I personally think monthly updates are fine for a smaller studio and I’m happy with their continued support and interaction with the community.
Trust me I’m in some other gaming communities that would love to get the treatment BHVR gives us as a community.
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Incidentally, only about 200 of those are involved with the production of DBD at last count.
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Okay yikes, I did not know they were that thinly spread.
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I know nothing about programming and even I can tell you updates take time. Unlike DLC they don't make extra money for fixing their game. Charging us for updates would literally start a riot. (Seriously, everyone is looking for an excuse to do that right now)
If your upset about survivor movement being whacky for a month, try putting up with bugs for 9 months. I'm still waiting for them to address the Nurse bugs that were introduced since her rework.
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Yeah, they are actually still pretty small in spite of what people like to say. The balance team, for example, I think is only about half a dozen people, if that.
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DbD has been proven many times to have really weird spaghetti code (when that Spirit nerf hurt Wraith accidentally, Doctor's illusions not sharing his cosmetics for a year and a half and being told it would be impossible to do so, sound breaking every other patch, etc.) That makes finding these "simple" fixes a lot harder. I speak from experience here as a developer for something much more boring. We have a couple pieces of code that are infamously bad to work with due to how hodgepodge they are...even if BHVR had improved their coding practices in the last four years, that leaves a lot of legacy code that doesn't follow good coding practices. As a result it doesn't surprise me too much when something that seemingly is quick to fix like the Legion vault bug takes a lot longer to find and fix.
To use an example from my work - users wanted to be able to click and drag boxes to reorder things on one specific thing. This structure was made two decades ago and was not designed for that - it would take a completely new program for just this one thing to be able to do this. They weren't happy with that answer, but ultimately gave up on the idea since we weren't going to get approval for that size of a task. Seemingly simple thing to do, but completely impossible given our coding architecture.
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Or the fps issue on console. Or.. GRABS!! !
Not trying to bust balls, but with all the success and $ they've made off cosmetics,console, and mobile, you think they could afford to hire a few more to hammer out issues that have been here for over a year. Just saying...
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Perhaps they could, or perhaps their daily operations are more expensive than we give them credit for. Another possibility is that they only hire people they need - or, to put it another way, the goal of a business is to make the maximum profit, so they're only going to be looking to hire people who would make them more money than they spend. Point is, none of us really have the faintest clue what BHVR's accounts look like. That being said, they are constantly advertising dozens of job openings on their website, so it's not as if they aren't trying.
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Doesn't this game get an update every 1.5 months? Like I know many games that go much longer.
BHVR does big updates, not really small ones. There updates are pretty regularly scheduled.
EDIT: To be clear they do some small ones, but the majority of there updates are bigger.
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All they care is money. They DO NOT care about gamebraking bugs. That movement bug bothers me so much that sometimes i just alt f4.
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Has there ever been a single update without some sort of bug fix?
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so you're telling me a game studio designed a game around perk mechanics and don't have a dedicated team into balancing perks that they can do on a weekly or even monthly basis? Hmmm okay...because let's be real, perks barely get changed and it's disgusting.
Furthermore while not EVERYONE is a programmer at the studio they're clearly budgeting their staff for 3-D Modelling and design for cosmetics.
Then we have more of the programmers working on upcoming chapters instead of fixing the games bugs.
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Has there ever been a single update where they dont screw something in the game? And we are not talking about some small bugs, those bugs are BIG and they should always try to remove them asap. Not after 1.5 month or even longer.
.5
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So you sit and nitpick NOED out of everything I said...okay? Not quite sure what your argument is supposed to be about because i'm literally just talking about the majority of complaints that i see on the forums and never claimed to have a issue with it personally, clearly the community find it an issue in the game or it wouldn't be complained about so much, just another ignored thing like everything else the community offer. Pretty sure i didn't sit here and claim to know how easy or hard programming works either, but having some sort of game breaking bugs in the game for so long isn't doing it justice is it?
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They have to cook juuuuuuuust right. Like a yummy pot roast, friend. Trust me, the yummies will be worth the wait.
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Entitled? The amount of money most people put into a game like this and we see more cosmetic updates than we do gameplay bug fixes? Your reply makes 0 sense...not sure how anything in this post is entitlement, because you know it's fun when you pay money to play a game and pay for the battlepass and what not and then you expect some sort of professionalism with dealing with gameplay bugs. I'm saying is they spending too much time focusing on balancing the new killer with the PTB and stuff instead of fixing current issues in the game that have persisted for a long time.
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someone gets it!
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The short answer is that Behaviour is not a terribly agile company when it comes to deploying urgent fixes or aggressively responding to data about how their game is played.
The longer answer probably has a lot to do with not wanting to make knee-jerk responses to balancing issues, and erring toward letting the meta develop organically, then making conservative and granular shifts. Mostly this is OK, sometimes it is not enough. The "problem" we have on these forums is that there is not a lot of regular transparency about what the internal thought process is -- but we're also not entitled to that.
I wish that fixes for a lot of the really big usability hurdles -- UI/UX, systemic angst (like the perk grind), server tick rates, matchmaking, these weird random disconnect or resolution issues people have been experiencing, etc. -- had a more visible pipeline. Balance stuff, it's just gonna happen as it happens.
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Go learn some programming. I think you'll find it enlightening.
You mentioned complaints and how the devs don't address them, I chose an example to show that complaints don't mean something is unbalanced or needs changing. NOED is simply the best example because it's been nerfed twice, yet the complaints remain. The problem isn't the perk itself, it's that some people just don't want to counter it. The same principle applies to the majority of complaints.
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We're not in competition over who has the most bugs on what side and how long they've lasted for it doesn't justify them not being fixed. Furthermore I didn't claim i wanted them to charge for updates, this isn't Fallout 76.
I've been in a lot of gaming communities and this is the worst "live" game i've seen neglected for gameplay breaking bug fixes.
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But do you not believe that everything you just listed should be a priority in fixing instead of them bringing out Chapters as frequently as they do?
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I believe that there should be more focus on sustained quality of life updates, yes. Like, UI/UX is one of the biggest and most embarrassing issues in this game. It looks and feels janky just from an interface presentation standpoint, and one would think that there would be at least one or two people at Behavior whose entire job is to maintain and refine that over time, because this is a normal thing for a game.
But I have not seen anything meaningful in this regard since I started playing this game a year and a half ago -- and the things I HAVE seen have been regressions (like, they removed the option to flip between survivor and killer without going back to the main menu).
There should be a "live team" that maintains the game day-to-day, in addition to designers and developers who are forward-looking and focused on new chapters and stuff. Maybe it IS this way, I don't know. But if there is, they're incredibly slow to act on anything.
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I blame Death-Garden, I don't know why or how but I blame it
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Why are you trying to tell someone who plays the game to learn some programming? This is their day in day out Job...they're doing it for a living, doesn't matter how hard it is they get paid to do it...doesn't really justify the timeframe in updates they give us.
So all the NOED complaints are meant to just go unnoticed just like DS, BT, Adrenaline etc...? There's literally too much stuff complained about and not a lot happening on the dev side is what my POV is. If they addressed it and said they would actually look to fix these things then it would be fine. But no more and more feedback complaints build up more and more people leave the game because nothing get's done about it...
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I bought that game and played it once and got off it real quick. Not even sure what that was supposed to be. Didn't they waste a Terminator License on that game to?
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Because they think programming is easy, just like you. You're literally criticizing something you have no understanding of. If you did, you would criticize very different aspects of the game, as opposed to "updates aren't coming as quickly as I want" (which also ignores what I said before, about people complaining about how often they used to update).
Most of the complaints are to go unaddressed because the people who complain don't accept reality: the stats don't support their complaints. One of those stats, funnily enough, is the fact that the number of players keeps increasing, not decreasing as you claim.
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Again never claimed to know how it works or even said it was easy but okay, keep trying to one up me just to try and make yourself look good defending a underdeveloped game. It's not a case of me being mad updates not coming out as quickly as "i" want, most of the community feels the same way.
The player base is obviously going to increase if they've literally brought the game to new platforms likes the Switch. The game is on Xbox Game Pass which is also going to entice more people to play it and I feel bad for new players joining this game who are going to leave because of a lot of issues.
But yey another person who just looks at stats. They don't tell the whole story...
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Well, I said programming isn't as easy as you seem to believe and you ignored it. I can only conclude you think programming is super easy, barely an inconvenience, which would mean you don't know anything about it. I'm not trying to "one up" you, just pointing out details.
I'm just talking about the Steam numbers. I have no idea about console. What's your explanation for those?
Stats don't tell the whole story, but they're much more reliable than looking at the forums and proclaiming they represent the entire player base.
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I hope the company will grow bigger and bigger soon. They deserve it.
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A They don't care about the players
B They'd rather push new content and make money from it asap
C They are not legally obligated to do so after taking your money
D All of the above
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I always get a chuckle when someone makes a thread for a NOED nerf and suggest changing it to the original version.
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Behaviour is the largest independent video game developer in Canada. This assertion is at the core of its corporate identity. Behaviour has been developing games for more than 20 years, and they've done a ton of kids' games and "B team" ports. Heck, they worked on the previous-gen ports of Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor! Two years ago, Behaviour agreed to a $16 million dollar deal to buy back full publishing rights for Dead by Daylight from Starbreeze.
The company's 500 employees aren't all in active development roles on this one game (or at all) obviously, but this is not some scrappy, fly-by-night startup as some people still somehow like to believe. They have ample resources, and they don't always use them effectively or efficiently.
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This is a really jaundiced way of looking at it.
As a company they are obviously going to be wanting to profit in order to stay in business. This is not something to hold against them, because that's what a company is -- so of course they're always working on something to sell you. This is not a bad thing in and of itself, unless the thing they're selling is hot garbage and does not work.
I don't think anyone could mount a real argument that Behavior doesn't care about its players. I think these developers care about their players a LOT, because they have continued to actively support this game and engage with their community over the forums, livestreams, and whatnot. They can -- and do -- make mistakes while still caring about the game and its player base. I have never doubted that the people who make Dead by Daylight want us to be happy and enjoy their game. No developer wants to hear from their fans that they did a bad job, or that they are acting maliciously because they don't care. If I were a developer, I would feel like a failure and want to do better, if that was the case.
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Except they won't answer simple questions in their streams, Like why are they pushing update with so many bugs in it? or when are these bugs going to be fixed? They only care about the flow of new players into their game, who are not aware of all this bs. As long as they get paid., even if that person will never play the game after buying it.
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Then why still play this game if the anount of bugs quite literally bug you this.much?
DBD is still playable for the majority of people and that's the most important bit. Pretty sure Bethesda games are more bug ridden than DBD and they are a full on AAA company.
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I only play survivor once in a while now. And why bring another company into this? What does it have to do with BHVR? Is Bathesda a new standard and this is where people draw the line now for what's acceptable from a developer? If so I'm not surprised.
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Bethesda isn't some kind of new standard, but I want you to realize that Bethesda is a MUCH larger studio than BHVR. And they experience bugs on the daily, ask anyone who plays Fallout 4 unpatched or anyone who plays Fallout 76 period.
So to expect BHVR to do weekly updates is unreasonable since there are only at most 200 people working on the game, and those are not 200 programmers.
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Bethesda work on multiple game first of all. Second they don't have to come out with patches every week if they don't launch updates with a ton of bugs in it. Bhvr doesn't have 200 people working on the game. They have a lot more. Still don't understand why bring bethesda into this. The only things they have in common is their practices.
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Have the devs ever announced how many people were working on DbD?
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And yes, would you believe it or not I would trust a Trusted member more than you.
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No
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You were talking about company size, not how many people work on DBD. And they have over 600 employees. It says on their website. So you can chose to believe or not what they say.
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+1
Programming is way more complex than it seems to see in files. If you make any mistake you will land to a situation where is a 100000 bugs or the app would not just run. You basically need to love this and be very smart.
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Not all of them work on DBD, only 200 of them are involved in the production of DBD.
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How do you imagine an exchange would go on a stream if they were like "OK, next, HellDescent asks 'Why are you pushing an update with so many bugs in it?'"?? Do you realistically expect them to a) tackle a question like that head-on when the tone is this combative, and b) have a satisfactory and all-encompassing answer? I'm not rushing to defend Behaviour against people raising legitimate issues with them (and this game has a lot of issues), but walk yourself through the scenario and imagine how they might receive that kind of question. There's no way they would willingly light that powder keg. It's better to ask targeted questions about specific things that you see an issue with.
You didn't absorb anything that I said when I made my case about how the developers -- the human beings -- behind this game care about it and want us to enjoy the fruits of their labor. You're still ascribing this monolithic, robotic corporate evil to them.
There are a bunch of issues with this game. A significant portion of my post history is dedicated to pointing out these issues, breaking them down clearly and at length, and offering ideas on how to solve them. I hope that they read our feedback and take some of it to heart, but I do not think we are entitled to this, and this forum is just one data point among many. But nobody's going to listen when you adopt this pitchfork mentality, assume that everyone working on this game is a villainous bean counter, and just go BUGS FIXED WHEN?????????
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I gave "examples" of questions they avoid. And yes it would be nice to know why there is so many bugs every update and why it is considered to be acceptable for them. I guess it's just norm these days. Since why people are wondering why the f would you ask that kind of question.
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I'll ask you the same: have the devs said how many people are working on DbD?
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