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Hag and Wraith are out dated...
As we stand they are the only 2 killers who have weaknesses to a rather annoying item..flashlights, wraith isnt strong enough to allow flashlights to be a ranged stun..and for hag..last night I had the worst match I've had in ages..thsts saying a lot since I'm a nurse main in 2020..I never thought flashlights were that bad as hag..but last night showed me otherwise.
This dwight I faced..used an auto haven map offering and a yellow flashlight ..i could not use my power vs him because hed disarm the trap immediately and hag is so slow hed still make it to an abundance of pallets..to make it worse he followed me and made sure i could never set up against his team and they would force disarms on my traps as well..i was in practice..utterly powerless to stop them..all because of 1 yellow item...this is an old out dated design..and should be corrected...why does it seem like every killer I love to play is plagued by these..decisions..so if killer power could NOT be shut down by an item that would be a nice start
Comments
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If Hag wasn't weak to flashlights, she'd be the best killer. Leave her as she is, there's a way to win, it's just REALLY difficult. I can understand what you mean, but she definitely doesn't need more buffs. (Hag main who faces Flashlights a fair amount)
If they were to update these killers, I think Wraith would be OK, but Hag definitely would be nerfed in some place which I personally think it's better having her as she is. Plus, if you set your web up while FL is on hook/other side of map, you can very easily snowball the team by forcing them into you (defending 3-4 close gens or something).
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I need Hag needs some love and QoL but not a lot.
Mainly she could have map wide teleport basekit (to promote going around the map to trap instead of being forced into nests)
OR just make teleporting to traps more fluid if we can't have the range. So slow after coming out of a trap and survivors are able to get out of hits because of it should be fixed.
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Flashlights are not that much of a problem for Hag, as long as it is not a huge amount of Flashlights. I just to switch Killer with Hag whenever I saw a Flashlight in the Lobby, but one single Flashlight does not make that much difference.
The reason I dont play Hag are different (I find her extremely lame to play, it is basically just camping from a distance), but she is still one of the strongest Killers in this game. Removing the ability to burn her Traps would only lead to nerfing her in other aspects.
I agree on Wraith (and Nurse) tho. Those are the only two Killers which can be burned, nobody burns a Nurse because it is not worth it, and there is no reason why Wraith should suffer such a big Stun. Killer Burns are something which came in the game right at the beginning and is simply outdated.
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You could just bring Franklin's Demise to outright remove items from the game. Survivor items exist as a counterplay to the killer's perks and abilities. Med-Kits exist to mitigate the effect of perks such as Butcher, Dying Light, Thana, Repair kits exist to speed up gens and mitigate anti-repair speed killer addons, and Flashlights serve as an offensive weapon for survivors to use to shake up the game
This game is full of checks and balances on both sides it is what helps make the game more entertaining. The Dwight was doing good disabling your traps and buying his team time and survival in future chases. You've got to either shake up where you are putting your traps, focus him as a priority target, or bring counters to a flashlight. If you are playing Hag and you see someone put on a Flashlight you have to be prepared to counterplay his potential counterplay
You can't blame the Dwight for using what he can use
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The Wraith burn, if not removed, should be as long as the base uncloak, the upside of burning him would be he is stopped instead of slowly moving towards you while uncloaking and then the speed boost.
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No, they'd break her. She's fine as it is. She's only unpopular because she's somewhat difficult to play, doesn't mean she's underpowered though. The slowdown is good, it gives survivors a chance to disable her trap and avoid her lunge (which she now has). It means that if a survivor reacts fast enough, she'll miss them by a tiny gap and they get rewarded for disarming her traps if they react fast enough.
I consider Hag (even at base) to be the 4th best killer to Nurse, Spirit and Oni. And that's considering SWF in it. If she's played correctly, she's very strong and very difficult to beat. Yes, she's weak to SWF with Flashlights, but if she wasn't, she'd definitely be the best killer, no doubt, and I'm talking better than Old Nurse was. Plus, she has a chance against them, you just have to be SUPER tactical with your traps and avoid their LOS. If they got OoO, you're probably going to lose though.
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Next time you see a flashlight bring franklins, then trap said flashlight.
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There's builds around flashlights as Hag, it really doesn't affect her if you choose the right builds, in my experience, though, I've hardly been affected by it by just sticking to 3 gens and when they come into my side of the map, I slug them as they run through the routes I trapped.
She still has a power, it depends on how the player approaches it.
There's no point in buffing Hag, it'll definitely lead to a nerf in another place, and Hag is a delicate killer, like Nurse. She's either strong or weak, and the devs found a spot for her where she's strong but not oppressive which is very difficult. Changing her would probably overall lead to her being nerfed.
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I wouldn't mind Lightburn not existing anymore, but it's way too rare for it to happen to me to think it should definitely go away the next patch.
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So it's better 1 flashlight prevents me from playing the game entirely
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Ah yes silly me..I'll just equip a perk thatll keep my traps up..how could I forget ? Or I'll just chase dwight with no power all game for a single hook..terrific
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Well then I hope you get your autogaven dwight too..because I used to feel as you do..
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Ah yes let me just so that, oh wait...I couldnt reach him hardly because he burned all my traps -_-
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Absurd...if she has to stay where 1 item removes her power than I'd rather her be nerfed...at least then I can play the game
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If it prevents you from playing the game, ONE flashlight, then you're DEFINITELY the problem there. Learn how to play around it or switch to another killer as @Aven_Fallen said.
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Hag isnt even close to old nurse
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Hag generally has to stay in one area anyways, since her range is only 40 meters. You're playing her wrong if you're NOT committing to a single side of the map where you can access your traps properly. Of course, that's assuming you're not using range addons. If you have a problem with her playstyle, then she's not the killer for you.
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That or you two dont know Jack about what it's like in the receiving end..and I'd wager that's the case
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She would be if flashlights didn't reset her traps. She'd definitely be on that wavelength. Her addons would make her BUSTED.
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As we stand they are the only 2 killers who have weaknesses to a rather annoying item..flashlights
nurse is actually another killer that can be heavily affected by flashlights and she definitely doesn't need a buff. I do agree that hag and wraith could use a bit more love though. they both deserve a secondary power akin to newer + reworked killers to keep them competitive, since hag especially is one of the least played killers in dbd and that wounds my swampy hag main heart beyond measure.
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Buddy..did you even read what i posted..like at ALL?..I think I'm through talking to you..you look at this so narrowly it blows my mind
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Nah, maybe you just don't understand Hag, which is becoming increasingly obvious. I've faced the squads before, I've faced a single flashlight, it doesn't take a genius to counter them and play around it.
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This is why Franklins is good on hag.
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Just watching my power dissapeared with no way to punish the one doing it thanks to a huge amount of pallets its absurd
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Hilarious. Nothing I'm saying gets through to you because you can't adapt to ONE item, then you proceed to call me narrow minded.
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Yet that only goes so far ,
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Yes, but OP can't seem to take a hint that there's ways around it.
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You had me at wraith then you mentioned hag..
Sorry but my sympathy is gone lol I'd say stay the nurse main, she is 10x better than hag.
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Mhm..ok
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Nah, I know what I am talking about. Used to switch Killer whenever I saw one Flashlight, until I realised that one Flashlight does not make that much of a difference. They burn out quite quickly anyway when used for burning Traps. And I doubt that everyone runs a purple Flashlight with the best Add Ons for Duration.
If I see 3 or more Flashlights, I would not play Hag. But even then, Franklins is a thing. There is a reason why Killers can see the Survivors in the Lobby.
But buffing Hag in such a way would probably result in a Nerf in other ways. And I think that Hag is a Killer which is harder to balance than M1-Killers. You can make her too strong or way too weak.
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I've never used a flashlight against hag and I still win the majority of the time..that's why this Ill conceived notion flashlight burn is a necessity baffles me so much..but then again I forget whom i speak to
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Mmm but so deliciously far. A nice place for a trap, especially a silent one is on an item.
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Nice strawman. If you want to play Hag then you must deal with the limitations, learn to best them and play your killer to the best of your ability because survivors will be doing the same with their perks and addons. If you got a Dwight just going around and disabling your traps, then use it your advantage
Take care of the other weaker survivors, get them off gens, and when the game slows he'll either keep going after traps which takes a whole survivor off of a gen or he'll go try and take care of some gens thus allowing you to freely use traps again
That's how you beat them, sometimes you won't be able to and other times you will. Its all you can do
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Hag only needs to set the moving speed to 4.6m.
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It's nice in theory..but in practice...eh
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That may be a bit much for her.. I just want her to not be disabled so easily
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Tell me..how do you propose I catch survivors on AUTOHAVEN..without my power ..? These survivors weren't exactly green rankers nor were they simple solos..so your solution is I just accept that this terrible design is somehow ok?
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Hag is love.
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Cant man..I've loved hag since the start as well..I love her strategic style and little tricks with your traps lol I just hate how easily shes stripped of her abilities
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Apologises if you don't get the joke. I always say I hate hag so that's where the joke came from.
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Fair enough..sorry this topic has not left me very chuckley today...I've had so many great times as hag but seeing just how bad it can be for her really irks me that despite claiming they dont want direct killer power shut downs they still have this
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She needs some sort of counter similar to trapper. The problem is a team with flashlights is too big of a counter.
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You can already crouch over her traps out of chase..but even trapper doesnt have a mid chase insta disarmfrom range...shes got a counter..but as a 110 killer you cant just shut off her chasing power...then she has nothing left
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Out of chase yes but inside of chase no. If the camera didn't change the way you were facing it would be nice.
If you see a flashlight team (kinda like seeing a map team against trapper) I'd just change killer or dodge that match.
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I shouldnt have to..I shouldn't be limited by loadout or map to have a chance at winning..that the worst type of bad design
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I can get why you're upset about that bit tbh, I don't like having to switch to Oni so often myself. Where would you nerf her if you were to make flashlights ineffective against her?
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That's just the thing, I dont really use items as survivor most of the time..survivor is boring if you try hard as far as you can because it's too easy...and as I iterated..I've never had issues vsing a hag without a flashlight. You can already crouch to avoid traps out of chase..my issue is flashlights are worse for her than if toolboxes insta snapped trapper traps during chase.. but at least trapper has top movement speed..hags light burn doesnt have a place anymore..I'm 100 percent confident the most that would happen is shed be in line with the other killers of her type..if flashlights took long enough and burned charges I wouldnt care as much out of chase as its be minimal slowing rather than shut down..but even a little flashlight can burn a ton of traps during chase..that isnt fair in the slightest
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Well it's annoying for survivors as well. Her traps are hard to see and I don't hate holding L2 to counter a killer. Unless I have a flashlight and I'm in a swf then I really have no counters to her.
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I'd honestly be ok with that..I just dont like being forced into powerlessness for a long time because it insta burns traps for almost no charges and can be done mid chase..like..#########
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Hm, perhaps this could be tested in a PTB. I still think she'd become the best killer, and unhealthy, but hey, the initial Hag buffs looked like they made her BROKEN but people adapted eventually and Hag is widely considered a balanced killer as it is. This little change could make her balanced, and if it were to make her OP, they could always revert it or nerf her in some place, or nerf Flashlights' effectiveness on her by increasing the time it takes to burn a trap. It'd certainly be interesting.
If a dev sees this, perhaps they might put it in the next PTB to test it? Since that is what PTB's are made for.
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