Leatherface and the case for 120% movement speed

yeet · June 2018

Leatherface is a pretty bad killer, most peoples tier-lists put him at about the 4th worst, this is merely because his power can't be made completely useless, (unlike trapper and wraith), and doesn't entirely cripple him (freddy). He is very weak and needs buffs.
But instead of buffing his power with numbers changes, i propose buffing him to a base 120% movement speed.
I genuinely believe that leatherface would be the only killer who would be balanced with this movement speed
leatherface really has none of the things that make a killer viable going for him, he is weak to both stealth and chases, the only upside in his kit is the instadown for huge survivor mistakes
this kit means that he gets DESTROYED by higher ranked survivors, he simply cannot compete
he has nothing to offer outside of chases either, he has the standard killer terror radius without any way to mask it outside of meme perks like insidious and he has absolutely 0 tracking tools
survivors know he is coming and he has no way of knowing where they are, not to mention being about the tallest killer also makes it much more difficult for him to mindgame at certain loops
i don't think you could give this movement speed to another killer and have them remain balanced, they are either too good at tracking or have larger upsides in their kit.
Leatherface has no upsides, while it is true he has no downsides, he also has NO UPSIDES
he suffers from all of the same problems as other killers, but without their individual strengths
all he has is his ability to camp, which if you are playing to win, is basically useless, camping is stupid and loses you games.
He has no way to effectively apply pressure, even freddy and wraith can apply pressure better than leatherface can, he has literally nothing outside of a situational instadown

give him 120% movement speed.

Judgement · June 2018

I'd say either 120% movement speed, or to remove the slowdown when charging Chainsaw Run.
Other than that, I agree with this post.

yeet · June 2018

@Judgement said:
I'd say either 120% movement speed, or to remove the slowdown when charging Chainsaw Run.
Other than that, I agree with this post.

removing the slow would be problematic as there would be nothing stopping him from just holding it and running up to survivors

Freudentrauma · June 2018

@yeet said:
removing the slow would be problematic as there would be nothing stopping him from just holding it and running up to survivors

That's quite true. The bigger issue is, how much he is slowed down in combination with the base speed for charging his chainsaw. He moves slower than a survivor while charging. So he has a quite limited time, when he can use it, in comparison with the Hillbilly, who only gets slowed down to survivor speed, allowing him to take his time to position himself while he charges.

Someissues · June 2018

Gives him Ultra Rare add-ons, as he's the only licensed killer that doesn't have it yet for some reason we did a pretty good job so far. and buffs Chili addon, acceleration is un-noticeable on Leatherface. and some of his addons are trash

He has no map control, Billy is just a much more superior killer and he's free

IronWolf115 · June 2018

@yeet said:

@Judgement said:
I'd say either 120% movement speed, or to remove the slowdown when charging Chainsaw Run.
Other than that, I agree with this post.

removing the slow would be problematic as there would be nothing stopping him from just holding it and running up to survivors

I would simply balance him moving at max speed whilst revving the saw like this then: After 10 seconds of him continuously revving the saw, if he hasn't let go to do the sprint, then he becomes fatigued ( slower ) for 2 seconds.

In regards to the post itself, I think it would be interesting to see that. There is the PTB, changes like these are what it is there for.

Jack11803 · June 2018

Only killer that could be given 120% is wraith, and it’s fit his theme and make sense too. Everyone else could probably get a power buff. Leatherface could get something like a buff to acceleration?

yeet · June 2018

@Jack11803 said:
Only killer that could be given 120% is wraith, and it’s fit his theme and make sense too. Everyone else could probably get a power buff. Leatherface could get something like a buff to acceleration?

Wraith has a power that lets him apply pressure outside of chases, leatherface has nothing
Acceleration is also a trash stat, even the award winning chilli does nothing

IronWolf115 · June 2018

@yeet said:

@Jack11803 said:
Only killer that could be given 120% is wraith, and it’s fit his theme and make sense too. Everyone else could probably get a power buff. Leatherface could get something like a buff to acceleration?

Wraith has a power that lets him apply pressure outside of chases, leatherface has nothing
Acceleration is also a trash stat, even the award winning chilli does nothing

Yeah, acceleration NEEDS a big buff to give him more speed. This consequentially would also buff his chilli add-ons

NMCKE · June 2018

@yeet
I don't think any killer should have 120% base movement speed, your talking about a 5% increase in speed and you may not know how powerful that may be. Don't get me wrong Leatherface needs a buff but not in his movement speed. I'll suggest some options and hopefully you'll like one of them

1.) Decrease the time to charge his chainsaw to 100%. This would allow leatherface to not lose much distance between the survivor and himself when he decides to charge it.

2.) Reduce the speed penalty when he charges his chainsaw. Same reason as #1, he won't lose much distance between him and the survivor.

3.) Increase the time to charge his chainsaw to 100% but completely remove the speed penalty. This will allow his to pressure survivors to not get close to him and allow for mind games at pallet loops.

M2Fream · June 2018

Buffing base movement speed would be very punishing to survivors and would promote M1 chases. There must be a better way to buff him that people havnt thought of yet.

Irisora · June 2018

@M2Fream said:
Buffing base movement speed would be very punishing to survivors and would promote M1 chases. There must be a better way to buff him that people havnt thought of yet.

I agree. And with the correct addons you can reach survivors easy with him, for example:

The Beast's Marks (rare chainsaw movement speed increase addon) or Knife Scratches (the uncommon one)

Combined with:

Carburetor Tuning Guide (rare chainsaw's charge time decrease addon) or Primer Bulb (the uncommon one)
All this addons works with tinkerer too.

In my opinion he needs a rework to the Chili add ons, which are very bad in comparison to the combinations i said above.

White_Owl · June 2018

Currently LF is awful in map presence and in chases unless he gets lucky and finds a survivor in the open, that is true, but saying he has no upside is plain wrong.
His greatest strenght is that he has the ability to snowball like crazy, the only one with a similar potential is a slugging Nurse. Slap on him Territorial Imperative and he becomes a death machine. At that point you don't need to care about chase lenghts and gens because survivors will just keep coming to you if you play your cards well. So in the end I think that LF is in a good spot and any buff done to him could make him borderline op. My only complaint about him is that compared to other killers he is very limited in his perk choices (Territorial and Agitation are a must, and BBQ helps a lot) and most of his addons seem lackluster.

BTW a plain speed increase is a terrible idea as a killer buff, because at that point the ability could be irrelevant and it would just become a "M1 to win" killer with no skill requirement at all.

IronWolf115 · June 2018

@White_Owl said:
Currently LF is awful in map presence and in chases unless he gets lucky and finds a survivor in the open, that is true, but saying he has no upside is plain wrong.
His greatest strenght is that he has the ability to snowball like crazy, the only one with a similar potential is a slugging Nurse. Slap on him Territorial Imperative and he becomes a death machine. At that point you don't need to care about chase lenghts and gens because survivors will just keep coming to you if you play your cards well. So in the end I think that LF is in a good spot and any buff done to him could make him borderline op. My only complaint about him is that compared to other killers he is very limited in his perk choices (Territorial and Agitation are a must, and BBQ helps a lot) and most of his addons seem lackluster.

BTW a plain speed increase is a terrible idea as a killer buff, because at that point the ability could be irrelevant and it would just become a "M1 to win" killer with no skill requirement at all.

His upside though is a really unfun way to play. With LF I want to chase a survivor like a maniac with the chainsaw and feel powerful doing so. The way he is played right now is, like you say, a VERY campy playstyle which no killer should rely on. I agree that his strength defencibly should stay but he vneeds MUCH more offensive capabilities. He is also one of the worst killers at dealing with pallet looping. And to finalize, in high rank most survivors will see that you are trying to basement them so if they are smart they just leave it alone and complete the gens.

White_Owl · June 2018

@IronWolf115 said:

@White_Owl said:
Currently LF is awful in map presence and in chases unless he gets lucky and finds a survivor in the open, that is true, but saying he has no upside is plain wrong.
His greatest strenght is that he has the ability to snowball like crazy, the only one with a similar potential is a slugging Nurse. Slap on him Territorial Imperative and he becomes a death machine. At that point you don't need to care about chase lenghts and gens because survivors will just keep coming to you if you play your cards well. So in the end I think that LF is in a good spot and any buff done to him could make him borderline op. My only complaint about him is that compared to other killers he is very limited in his perk choices (Territorial and Agitation are a must, and BBQ helps a lot) and most of his addons seem lackluster.

BTW a plain speed increase is a terrible idea as a killer buff, because at that point the ability could be irrelevant and it would just become a "M1 to win" killer with no skill requirement at all.

His upside though is a really unfun way to play. With LF I want to chase a survivor like a maniac with the chainsaw and feel powerful doing so. The way he is played right now is, like you say, a VERY campy playstyle which no killer should rely on. I agree that his strength defencibly should stay but he vneeds MUCH more offensive capabilities. He is also one of the worst killers at dealing with pallet looping. And to finalize, in high rank most survivors will see that you are trying to basement them so if they are smart they just leave it alone and complete the gens.

I found that he is actually better when you are not camping because then survivors will just gen rush like crazy, that's why I say Territorial and BBQ are required. If you go around patrolling gens and hitting people far enough for TI to activate, someone is almost guaranteed to go for the save at one point.

Personally I wouldn't be against a buff to his chainsaw to make it more useful in chases (mainly by increasing his speed while revving the chainsaw, but also by giving a clue when the charge is full so you don't risk loosing it if you let go a millisecond too early,) but I suspect he was created the way he is to make him feel different from the Hillbilly. Afterall, any buff to his chainsaw would probably make it more similar to the Hillbilly's minus the mobility.

IronWolf115 · June 2018

@White_Owl said:

@IronWolf115 said:

@White_Owl said:
Currently LF is awful in map presence and in chases unless he gets lucky and finds a survivor in the open, that is true, but saying he has no upside is plain wrong.
His greatest strenght is that he has the ability to snowball like crazy, the only one with a similar potential is a slugging Nurse. Slap on him Territorial Imperative and he becomes a death machine. At that point you don't need to care about chase lenghts and gens because survivors will just keep coming to you if you play your cards well. So in the end I think that LF is in a good spot and any buff done to him could make him borderline op. My only complaint about him is that compared to other killers he is very limited in his perk choices (Territorial and Agitation are a must, and BBQ helps a lot) and most of his addons seem lackluster.

BTW a plain speed increase is a terrible idea as a killer buff, because at that point the ability could be irrelevant and it would just become a "M1 to win" killer with no skill requirement at all.

His upside though is a really unfun way to play. With LF I want to chase a survivor like a maniac with the chainsaw and feel powerful doing so. The way he is played right now is, like you say, a VERY campy playstyle which no killer should rely on. I agree that his strength defencibly should stay but he vneeds MUCH more offensive capabilities. He is also one of the worst killers at dealing with pallet looping. And to finalize, in high rank most survivors will see that you are trying to basement them so if they are smart they just leave it alone and complete the gens.

I found that he is actually better when you are not camping because then survivors will just gen rush like crazy, that's why I say Territorial and BBQ are required. If you go around patrolling gens and hitting people far enough for TI to activate, someone is almost guaranteed to go for the save at one point.

Personally I wouldn't be against a buff to his chainsaw to make it more useful in chases (like giving a clue when the charge is full so you don't risk loosing it if you let go a millisecond too early, and increasing his speed while revving the chainsaw) but I suspect he was created the way he is to make him feel different from the Hillbilly. Afterall, any buff to his chainsaw would probably make it more similar to the Hillbilly's.

Yeah those buffs are actually what a lot of people want along with his acceleration to be buffed so that I think is definitely is the way to go

Wesker · September 2018

Just remove the speed penalty when revving the chainsaw. Hillbilly doesnt have a speed penalty while revving it, and this make him dangerous even if you're close to a pallet/window. Lf can get a chainsaw hit only if well timed in open field, which never happens in high ranks.

Wesker · September 2018

In his current state, LF can use his chainsaw properly against good players only if they mess up a hook save in the basement (when you're close), so remove the speed penalty and give him a 4,0% MS while revving (the same of Hillbilly) and when he starts his rush a 5,0% MS (the same of cloaked Wraith) and will be viable at high ranks.

jakeb_1993 · September 2018

Nah, LF is way too overpowered with his chainsaw as is. If anything he needs nerfing more. He moves way to fast while swinging the chainsaw and can move far too easily with it. Slow down his speed while swinging and it makes it way more balanced.

At least with the Billy you have to have some skill in using your chainsaw, LF it's just rev and off you go, kill 2people during an unhook.

yeet · September 2018

jakeb_1993 said:

Nah, LF is way too overpowered with his chainsaw as is. If anything he needs nerfing more. He moves way to fast while swinging the chainsaw and can move far too easily with it. Slow down his speed while swinging and it makes it way more balanced.

At least with the Billy you have to have some skill in using your chainsaw, LF it's just rev and off you go, kill 2people during an unhook.

Try playing the game for more than 10 hours, he's garbage.

Doomsaki · September 2018

I agree that leatherface needs speed. He lacks the design space that other killers have like map pressure or stealth.

He has an identity of being the killer you don't want to be caught in the open by, and he is the killer who carries you far to the basement. Movement speed would reinforce both aspects.

Jack11803 · September 2018

If anyone needs 120% speed it’s bing bong boi. Also, for anyone that suggests he loses no speed while revving, realize you’re Harrisburg at balance and they’d just bloodlust or 100% one hit down every person without fail. You’re supposed to get punished for being stupid. But yeah leatherface does need a buff.