Just penalize SWF already
I can hear everyone saying "wow, you entitled killer main" while yes, i am a killer main, but I am not entitled (just stating the facts, it's your choice to believe it)
I think most of the problems in this game go back to SWFs. Solo and killer experiences will improve if they just nerf SWF groups. Every part of the game has some sort of downside gameplay wise, but not SWFs. They have all of the same powers except they have voice coms to almost guarantee a win. They already have all the tools to tell whoever is part of a SWF group, why is it taking this long for a change about them?
I don't have a problem with friends playing with eachother, unless it hurts a game drastically for everyone else. Killers have downsides, solos have downsides, why not SWFs how inherently have a huge advantage that can't always be countered. SWFs can also easily sandbag solos, ruining the game experience.
I just don't want SWF balance to be put on the devs, "lets not do anything about it for 3-4 years" board.
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Putting aside the fact that punishing people for playing with friends is absurd, penalizing SWF will also penalize solo survivors, because it'll make the entire team less effective.
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I, and my SWFs, will not play the game if SWF has any debuffs.
I play with two players who aren't top players. Give us debuffs like we're a 4 man rank 1 team and the fun will be gone.
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k
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looks like you have to "try" now instead on relying on your teamates.
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Just have two ranking numbers - rank vs/as party and rank vs/as solo.
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No
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We have to rely on our teammates to survive, swf or not
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You can't. SWF is a cash cow, and they may leave. Instead, just increase rewards for facing SWF.
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Almost every killer in this game is pretty straightforward to loop for long enough that you don't really need to be afraid of them finding you. The game is really 4 separate 1v1's where only one person has to play the other four at the same time, as most killers appear to be balanced around a solo survivor easily being able to escape or waste enough time for the survivors to ultimately win.
As long as your teammates aren't AFK, you don't really need to rely on them much except to not royally screw up, constantly.
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How would nerfing SWFs help the solo experience at all?
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I'm a rank 1. I play against rank 1 killers with teammates who are below that level. I'm already forced to pull more than my fair share of the weight.
And it doesn't look that way at all. The devs aren't going to make stupid changes like this. Drive away friends and the game sees a massive drop in popularity.
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Not all SWF play with coms to communicate. I play with people from different countries, that don't speak the same language as me. We text sometimes, but we don't use the coms. So, should we also get nerfed? The answer to everything seems to be nerf this, nerf that. Maybe people just want to play with their friends. Me and my friends are not toxic, we just want to play together, that's all. Making things worse for a group of survivors, just because they are playing together doesn't make sense to me, because not every SWF is the same.
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In my humble opinion.
-SWF is a problem that was ignored by devs.
-The solution is easy, voicecomms in game and balance killers according it.
-Those who say we will have problems with voicecomms I answer em.
1-Much people know English. Surely you will meet people from your country so make friend and play with em
3-If you have a mate that put music or talk bad thing or whatever just mute it (seems that mute is a complicate process for doing it). Everyone can be a jerk even killers.
4-If you like to play solo just mute others and ypurself.
For any other excuse for adding voicecomms in game please let me know.
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So out of curiousity, how does your opinion that SWF is broken factor in BHVRs stats that 4 man SWF only survive 9% more than solo survivors? Do you think they're lying?
There's no problem with SWF. If you think you're getting a sweaty 4 stack every other game, you're just a garbage killer tbh. Do 4 man depip squads exist? Absolutely. But after 2 years of being rank one pretty consistently, I think I go against them maybe 1 out of 100 games. SWF is like the number 1 excuse of killers that are bad but don't want to admit they still have a lot to learn.
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It doesn't effect the solo experience. It wouldn't hurt it and it might help it by bringing some players who rely on SWF into the solo pool.
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Adding a penalty to SWF does a lot more harm than good. Just give solos more information, what's so hard about that?
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That doesnt quit they are getting several perks for free and so its unfair.
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You don't nerf SWF or change much of anything. You just have two rank numbers - vs/as swf and vs/as solo. There's an undeniable advantage for SWF, comms or not, but mechanically nerfing that hurts the playerbase more than it helps. Just let people know where they stand. Killers can judge their skill based on vs solo and survivors can think they're super good however they want.
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"Solo and killer experiences will improve if they just nerf SWF groups" I was asking for clarification on this part here. OP claims that somehow having less effective teammates would help me out when I play solo q survivor.
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You're aware this is an asymmetrical game, correct? All survivors rely on each other.
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I like the idea of increasing the rewards if you go agains't a swf, its good desing to reward instead of punish.
i also think swf are unfair, and the best way to balance to give killers and solo survivors a small buff, that doesn't affect the swf team (like an extra perk slot from a selected pool of perks that don't combo with any other perk, like any of aces perks, no mither, that chest searching perk, thanatophobia, pharmacy, furtive chase, bloodwarden, bloodhound, zashin tactics, and any of demo's perks)
you can't deny that swf CAN be stronger than solo survivor, so we should balance according. Giving the killer a small buff so that he CAN be stronger, not meaning they WILL, in a match with a swf, would make total sense.
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The devs themselves stated that the gap between SWF and random teams is not that large.
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No, they just need to rebalance the game around teamwork.
Example, I'm sure all of you have heard of Resident Evil Resistance by now. By design, that game is intended to be played with a coordinated team and the game is balanced accordingly around that aspect, mainly through the fact there is a time limit that goes up or down depending on the actions of both the Mastermind and the Survivors.
You CANNOT carry in Resistance, you pretty much need your entire team if you wish to win, the only time you can leave your team behind is the very end when the exit gate is open.
DbD was initially designed with a lot of unknown variables in mind, and those aspects are still in place to this day.
Rather than nerf or penalize SWF, they need to rebalance the entire game in order to accommodate the fact most people play in teams. How they would do this, I have no idea. But a dynamic time limit similar to Resistance could go a long way I feel.
Would also solve Hostage situations.
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I'm just tired of the devs ignoring this issue.
I just want the devs to make it where SWFs don't dominate everything. I guess in the meantime, I need to "Git Gud" according to people, because telling people to "Git Gud" makes them better...somehow.
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I'm a solo survivor main. I hate playing with SWF's because it generally means I'm gonna get screwed by a team that doesn't care about me and will very likely sacrifice me. So I am not particularly a fan of SWF's.
Having said that I see this topic a lot and even if BHVR wanted to do something to punish or do away with SWF they wouldn't be able to stop it. You would just have people using secondary chat apps or whatever to communicate with each other while they play.
Even as a survivor main I understand the frustration. I just think it would be a complete waste of time for BHVR to even try to do anything about it when there are so many super easy ways for people to circumvent it without detection.
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This is the only thing that really needs fixing about SWF.
The 4, 5, and 20 were queued together. The 14 was solo, so of course that match was reasonable. Yes, this queue was about 5 seconds long.
People can swear up and down that the matchmaking doesn't do this, but it 100% does, and many people use it like this.
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The gap between SWF and solos might not seem high, but that depends on how many "escaped" games they're talking about relative to killed. A 10% gap when survivors already escape far more often (anecdotally) than they don't is actually extremely significant.
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SWF is definitely a problem.
I just don't think you could ever punish them for SWF, that just wouldn't make sense.
I also think the extra rewards idea is terrible though. Almost no one cares about extra rewards for facing a SWF, the entire point is that it isn't balanced and it isn't a fun game to play.
Almost all the ideas we've had over the years all have their issues. I still think probably the best one has been adding built in voice comms and then balancing killers around SWF. Like I said, it has issues, but it's the best I've seen.
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I think that would be fair,and is a decent solution. Even just increase the BP a bit,which would even out what you would lose if it's a really good team with comms. I think that's more reasonable than a punishment and making people quit. I would say just at least let people know they are facing a SWF squad,but then people will just dodge the lobby.
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People shouldn't be punished for wanting to play with their friends. Why the ######### would you punish your playerbase for that?
Giving incentives to go against them is the way to go.
People already hate playing against SWFs and dodge/mori them if they can. If players are rewarded for playing against SWFs, there'd be less killers quitting and more people willing to play against them.
Killers just need to be buffed in general as well though.
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Imagine thinking people should be penalized/punished for playing with their friends. 90% of SWF's (probably more like 95%) are just people shooting the proverbial ######### with their friends. This "every SWF is a Seal Team 6 coordinated death squad of ultimate rectal reckoning" is absolute nonsense. Like honestly, there's an element of truth to the whole "git gud" mindset here.
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Devs have said that they will never punish people for playing with their friends. It's not gonna happen.
Back before SWF was a thing, players would just lobby dodge until they happened to get matched with their friends. So, if the devs tried to penalize SWF, my guess is the "Seal Team 6" players would do that while the casual having-fun-with-my-buds players would just stop playing altogether.
Rewards for killers for playing against SWF would be good, like a BP bump at the end (you wouldn't be able to tell the killer beforehand, it'd lead to too much dodging, but giving a reward after might provide some positive reinforcement even when the match goes poorly for the killer).
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Most people in SWFs are really bad at the game. Me and my friends included. Even in the anniversary stream they acknowledged that SWF survival rates are barely above solo.
The way I read these kind of complaints are a killer is upset people have mastered the game and usually, not saying here, disregard any of there own mistakes in a trial. Sometimes you run into SWFs that are good. Like really good. I hope the Dev’s are super careful about any adjustment as suggested here. Maybe even to the point they preferably never do anything at all.
I can pull out my killer credentials if you want me to btw.
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Most people in SWFs are really bad at the game. Me and my friends included. Even in the anniversary stream they acknowledged that SWF survival rates are barely above solo.
The way I read these kind of complaints are a killer is upset people have mastered the game and usually, not saying here, disregard any of there own mistakes in a trial. Sometimes you run into SWFs that are good. Like really good. I hope the Dev’s are super careful about any adjustment as suggested here. Maybe even to the point they preferably never do anything at all.
I can pull out my killer credentials if you want me to btw.
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Imagine if every online game out there actually punished people for trying to play together with each other.
Oh, guess what? None of the successful online games do that.
Because that is a stupid idea.
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ive said this before but in smite and LOL(ranked)l they only let you group with 1 person and in dota if you are grouped they try to match you versus a group its insane how other games can understand how being grouped is an advantage but the dbd survivor community doesn't or just tries to cry so loud so you cant listen to reason.
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good idea but problems
The ranking doesn't do nothing after matchmaking update
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league of legends only lets you q with 1 other person ranked and its one of the most successful games to date and they don't let you q with a big group because of balance imagine that
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I agree that SWF disrupt the experience of solo players (sometimes), and especially the balance of the game to the assassin, by passing game information that otherwise would not be possible to know.
An alternative that I see would be the addition of a mechanic similar to what happens on Friday the 13th, Walk talks where players in possession could communicate within the game, a light buff on assassins and I think they would encourage players to live the experience of communicating in the game, or I'm just being ingenuous.
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Yeah, except you're talking about the ranked queue of League. For any non-ranked queue, you can grab a full team of five without a problem. And guess what? Dead by Daylight isn't a game fit to have a ranked queue. It's a casual 4v1 game of tag, not a competitive, e-sports worthy showdown of skill and tactic.
The only times DbD was actually competitive is when people tried holding tournaments for it like, 2 years ago?. And it was a clown fiesta, for the lack of a better description. As far as I'm aware, nobody bothered trying to host competitive tournaments for DbD ever since.
League of Legends and Dead by Daylight are nowhere near comparable.
League actually is a competetive game with a mostly functional ranking system, and there's incentive to actually care about rank, as you get rewarded for climbing. It's a proper PvP game where 5 players fight against 5 players. The game itself doesn't involve RNG, other than the Elemental Dragons, which aren't even that impactful on their own. There are also normal games, which people can play with a group of 5 people just fine.
Dead by Daylight is nowhere near having a functional ranking system, and there is literally no point of actively caring about rank. The game's an asymmetrical experience, with a team of 4 players going against 1 player, which already heavily implies that it's not ever going to be perfectly balanced. There's no split for ranked and casual queues, because the game's playerbase isn't big enough to afford that. The game relies on RNG heavily, because the maps and their layouts are heavily randomized, quite often making the map heavily favor one of the sides.
Moreover, League doesn't punish you for duo-queueing if you're playing ranked games. No game does. I see no reason why Dead by Daylight should punish people for playing in a swf then, especially if it's not even a proper competitive game.
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And to add onto this, League also has another ranked queue, "Ranked Flex". Not to be confused with "Ranked Solo/Duo"(I'm sure you can see what that implies there). In Flex, you can play with all your friends in a ranked environment. DbD shouldn't have separate queues as that will just divide the playerbase even more and with already struggling matchmaking, that could only make things worse.
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Not just the killer, but any solos stuck with a SWF.
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This is entitled talk though. You believe that a group of people should be penalized soley because of using a feature in the game. Not everyone you go against is a sweaty swf. Many swf are just friends playing together and the ones who do sweat like that will end the game in 4 minutes regardlessly. Balancing around swf is not going to fix anything and just make the game tougher on solo que survivors which is already pretty tough because of the lack of communication. It's not impossible to win against them as pressure is still applicable, just a little tougher. The idea of every swf being a death squad is ridiculous and balancing towards that just breaks the game more. Killers will be almost uncounterable in the scenario of solo que when theyre designed to 1v4 constantly. In the 2 1/2 years ive played this game I think I've only run into about 4 of these groups before, so unless if I somehow don't main killer enough I don't see how any of this could be good. I think a good change would be if you could see how many people are in a group so you could prepare for it. I think this would also kill a large part of toxicity in the game because many 4-man booli squads would have less advantage and rank 12 killers would stop crying.
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swf is unfair for killer and devs need to do something about it,giving swf a debuff is the only way
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That's probably a good thing in all honesty.
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"... punishing people for playing with friends..." : Look at it as it not balanced and that solo survivors and mainly solo killers are being punished each game.
"... penalise solo survivors... less effective." : The game is balanced around solo survivors, to be balanced every survivor needs to be effective as solo survivor.
SWFs have never had a debuff only an unfair and unbalanced advantage over solo survivors and killers. The fun will always be there whether you aren't taking advantage of SWF or comms. I'm trying not to comment about you not playing the game if 'any' debuffs are given Mr I Teabag Gate.
No discussion, no arguement, this comment gives survivors a bad name.
Every player is a cash cow, to unbalance for the fun of a few creates further imbalance and refusal to play solo survivor or killer, creating less players and longer wait times for those advantaged players. SWF aren't going to leave because the game is balanced, they just want to play with their friends on the game.
This post is about survivors experience it is about balance of the game.
If you are good enough on a balanced game then you will still play rank 1 against rank 1 killers. "...stupid changes..."? "Drive away friends.."? "...drop in popularity."? Opinion but fact and nerfs and buffs aren't used to drive people away but to balance the game for fairness and fun.
SWF is unbalanced and then there is SWF with communications. The majority of SWFs use communications and use a language whether native or not so to play together.
SWFs shouldn't have an advantage, whether 1% 9% or a lot more. SWF information is hidden by BHVR before and after the game, why is that?
The game initially brought an uncertainty of what others were doing, by giving solo's more information creates a stronger superman survivor with special powers which will be countered by a stronger super killer which will be a different game, whether good or bad.
By adding in-game communications you give everyone the balance, people learn to say "do gens", "ghostface", "help me" in many languages. You can even turn off comms, like other games to be a better solo survivor. The list is endless but then so is the wait times for survivors wanting to play against a killer... especially with the new licenced survivor meta perk coming out...
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I know SWF is unbalanced. I also know that nerfing them is not the right course of action. Ideally, you'd want to buff solo survivors to the same level as SWF and then either buff killers accordingly or nerf survivors in areas that SWF doesn't change.
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quick reminder of the dev stream of q&a where the devs confirmed that the data of swf and solo queue are almost the same
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Why they hide information about SWF after match? Bcs of people like you and your stupid witch-hunting. Even without that information people still blame survivors for being SWF (even if its not true) every single game when survs were just better.
And you are also wrong about the fact that playing with friends shouldnt have advantage... it should have. Imagine : you play with someone for 1000 matches and probably 100 or more online games together (lol, battlefield, smite, apex - you name it). And you REALLY think they wouldnt work better as a team than 2 guys solo but with VoIP? I can promise you they will. Heck, when i play with my close friend in any game we usually talk about some #########, not the game. And guess what? We works much, much better as a team than randoms. I know what i can expect from him, he know what i want to do even before i do. Its natural, everyone have their own style, after playing with someone for so long you have to know him as good as yourself. And you cant achieve the same with some random you met in one single match and then never again.
What would i do instead of focusing on SWF is focusing on game itself. Maybe give killer fifth perk slot? After all he is all alone, while survs who also got 4 perks are in team. Even team full of randoms, but anyway - team. I wonder if that fifth slot for killer would have some larger impact on game...
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Fine, we can penalize swf, but killers would be given the same treatment. You want slower gen speeds? Then you can take the ruin and pop nerf. You want easy 4k's? Then say goodbye to bbq's aura reading ability and dying lights debuff. You want keys gone? Then moris can only be used on death hook and you get less points for doing a mori.
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