Why do people say second wind is bad?
So out of sheer curiosity I started running second wind and honestly its not that bad. Everyone always says its so bad or one of the worser perks but its really not. I've been having consistent use and activation of it (in red ranks for anyone who might say its cause im going against bad killers/survivors) and I've been having lots of fun in general running it. As long as you're good at looping its a pretty decent perk so how come no one likes it?
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Because what the perk does, you can do just as easily with different, less situational perks, or just by getting healed by someone else, and all that usually in a shorter time period than Second Wind requires.
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I don't know how you could ever use the word "consistent" because that's exactly what it's not and why nobody runs it, at least from my personal experience the few times that I tried to use it.
Albeit I didn't try too hard to make it work, but it just generally seemed unreliable with a bunch of conditions that need to be met. You need to heal a survivor a full health state which in itself can be a task and if you arrive to a heal even slightly after someone else has healed it doesn't work, then you have to be hooked and unhooked, then you wait a certain period of time all the while unsure of whether or not it's actually even working, and so on and so forth and it feels like this whole slog of BLEH
Of course this could just be me not understanding how to use it properly but at that point it's like why even bother when I have better alternatives. You know what's simple? Self-care. Heal yourself. It'll take ######### twice as long and even longer if the killer has anti heal perks but at least it makes sense. Y'know what else is simple? Inner Strength, break a totem hop into a locker and you're back at it at full health in 10 seconds. Done. Quick and clean. No "conditions" no complicated criteria, just straight up utility when you need it.
To clarify, I also regularly operate in red ranks. But then again, who doesn't?
Post edited by Seiko300 on6 -
Not sure if people really call it straight up bad but if it's the case the reason is probably the restriction it's got.
"When you have healed other Survivors for the equivalent of one Health State Second Wind activates"
So basically you have to waste your and 1 other survivor's time healing thus playing in the killer's hands (especially since many killers run Sloppy Butcher) just to get one health state back passively after getting unhooked - IF you don't get caught within the passive-heal-time-window that is.
On top of that there's some survivors who don't even want to get healed. Whenever I play survivor I usually just play the entire match injured to get the most out of my favourite survivor perk (Resilience). I wouldn't let you heal me for 1 health state as it disables my perk.
That being said I think there are many perks outside the meta that can be good but are often ignored by most high level players due to weird restrictions.
Fixated to name a sample. A decent perk for stealthy players concept-wise yet it gets disabled when you're injured so any killer that easily gets the first hit (stealth killers, Legion etc) or easily injures survivors in any other way (Plague) makes the perk useless all game even though the perk's impact is rarely on the same level as a meta perk.
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I've been using Second Wind with OOO and OTR, and the only thing I will say about it is that 1) the requirement to get it to activate is a little dumb in that you need to do one FULL SOLO heal, and 2) if you get downed while Broken you lose it entirely instead of it just resetting for the next time you are hooked. Fix those 2 things and it would be a much better perk.
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Sir just do a gen/cleanse a totem and wait for second wind to heal you it's only going to make you waste time if you waste time
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Second Win isn't a bad perk it's just the requirements to get the perk to even work. You have to go out of your way for the perk to even activate and that's why it's not used very often. It's a great perk but there are just so many better options. You're probably better off bringing a Med-Kit instead of wasting a perk slot for Second Wind because you'll just save so much time, hell even being healed by a teammate is probably more efficient than using the perk. You could use Botany with Self-Care and that will save a lot more time. There are just so much more better options when it comes to healing perks that make Second Wind not worth running because it is just such a hassle to get the perk to even work.
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I've had similar experience with it. Ever since I got steve and unlocked it on my Dwight it has become part of my build. I don't really get why everyone seems to think healing someone is something that is really hard to do, like I usually get to work most of my games just by unhooking a teammate and healing them at the hook. The situation, that Nurgling7 brought up, of your teammate using self-care is pretty rare. I'd say it is a good off meta perk.
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Because it is. It has an unnecessary activation condition and no synergy. Wasted perk slot.
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I run the perk personally.
It's good so long as you also run either We'll make it or Autodidact.
If your build happens to include one of those 2 perks then you're good and this perk will work well for you.
If you don't then I wouldn't run one of them just for the sake of a combo.
Basically for each perk:
We'll make it let's you heal under hook very efficiently. Thus making it very easy to proc second Wind after an unhook.
Meanwhile while Autodidact is super hard to get to 5 stacks. For this combo we are only interested in how it interacts with the first heal. Since the first 2 skill checks remove progress, that means you can still proc second wind even if another player comes to help or of they self cared for a bit before you got there.
Also progress from skill checks DOES count towards the perk. So don't worry about that being a problem for the 2nd proc.
Since I already like running an altruistic build, this perk fits in nicely with my other perks. Which is exactly the niche the perk fills.
You heal others super fast and the perk means those without faster healing perks aren't wasting time healing you back.
The only similar alternative perk is solidarity, which is more repeatable but less effective.
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Hold on thats false. I've been healing someone and someone else will join the heal party and second wind still meets the requirement.
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The point of the perk is more of an anti tunnel perk than anything. You get unhooked right in front of the killer, as long as you can outrun him for 30 seconds you gain a full health state and you don't even need to be healed or nothin.
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Lol not at all. It'd be OP as hell if it had no activation condition and it has synergy with perks like DS, autodidact, and any exhaustion perk
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Because it's too inconsistent.
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The experimental emce of mos people is that it is inconsistent. It only activates when you basic heal another survivor - that alone makes it inconsistent in its activation. Then, it deactivates if you don't get healed by it - and people can scream about camping killers all they want, I get farmed way more than camped.
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Honestly it needs a few changes. Too easily have I used it, and then been instantly downed because I'm being farmed.
For the amount of time it takes, it should heal you fully. It requires you to heal someone an entire health state and then survive a whole 30 seconds being both injured and broken. For the amount of effort you have to put into it, you only get a single health state. It's high risk low reward, which is a terribly unrewarding feeling.
It should heal you up two health states, breaking deep wounds/dying state in the process. And/or it should work that if the killer is carrying you and Second Wind completes, it's a free break out of their grasp.
Either way, Second Wind is a little weak right now. There are other perks that take way less prep time and have way more versatility.
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I didn't say it needed both. I said that the fact it has neither makes it unworthy of a perk slot.
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It isn’t bad its just there are better perks
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It isn’t bad it’s just unreliable. I’ve been running it recently with We’ll Make It and it has been fun. It’s nice just sitting on a generator and passively healing.
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If you get chased first and go down you already lose 50% of the perk’s value. If you get off the hook and get tunnelled well you lose all of the perk’s value.
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This is another thing I realized when I was thinking about it in retrospect, since I don't actually run the perk often myself. Second Wind is basically lying about being a health-sustain perk you're right it is an anti-tunneling perk. But here's the thing, what if you're not being tunneled? For most of my games as a survivor this is the case and that would means for most of my games this would be a wasted perk slot.
Because one of the conditions is being unhooked, that means you have to be hooked to get it to work, which means you'll only ever get it to work twice in one game because everybody knows that your third hook is your death hook. That just sucks by comparison, when I can use self-care an infinite number of times or even inner strength there are five totems on the map.
Not to mention, even with the tier 3 version of the perk it still takes an entire 30 seconds to activate, when I've got Inner Strength over here that activates in 8. That's way more reliable to cleanse a totem and then after you're unhooked find a locker and hop into it and get out already full in less than 10 seconds (for T2 / T3).
And fine, I'll give credit where credit is due: using second wind can allow you to get healed while performing other critical actions like saving someone else, repairing a generator, cleansing a hex, etc, and not wasting any time having someone heal you or (even finding a locker on certain maps which can be more difficult than others) or if a killer is tunneling you right off the hook and you can't jump into a locker or self-care sure you'd want second wind.
But it's just not worth it, those are such situational benefits for that many hoops to jump through. It is far more trouble to use the perk than it is actually worth, and I think that's what it comes down to.
This is what really gets me about the perk.
It's important to note that just a few small changes would actually make second wind worth running, but in its current state no thanks. I'd take Inner Strength over Second Wind any day of the week.
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Bias survivor mains consider anything that isn't the meta to be bad. DS, BT, Adren, DH, IS, IW, Unbreakable.
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The thing about the unhook requirement isn't as problematic as you'd think.
The most common reason for why you'd never be hooked is simply that the Killer never committed to chasing you, maybe because you hid but that's not really important.
But the point is that most of the time, a Killer will injure you and then follow up to actually down you for good.
Obviously this is not exclusively the case, but I'd say this holds about 70% of the time. Yeah I know the 30% is significant but whatever.
Point is, if you become injured you will probably also be hooked. So the unhooked requirement overlaps with the being injured condition in the first place. Making the limited use nature of the perk a bit less problematic.
Plus if you aren't being hooked then there really isn't a problem anyways.
And then when it comes to the 30 second time it takes. You really shouldn't think of it as a heal that takes 30 seconds. It's more accurate to think of it as a 30 second vulnerability period going along with a 0 second heal.
Because you aren't actually doing any kind of healing action during that time.
Inner strength may only take 8 second, but that's still 8 seconds more than second wind takes.
The REAL condition is the healing someone else requirement. Which again: annoying and inconsistent if you don't run healing perks, trivial if you do.
You run second wind if you already are running healing perks for whatever reason. If you do not run those perks then you shouldn't run second wind by itself.
Because I DO run healing perks (and did so before second wind even existed) I run second wind and get plenty of use out of it.
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because so much work for the slowest heal in the game
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Problem is it only activates twice, requires you to heal someone first, and makes you broken for 30 seconds before it works. Compare it to Inner Strength, which is similar but only requires a totem cleanse and a locker and it’s obvious which is the better perk. Why would I run Second Wind when I could run Inner Strength or even just a medkit?
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It's an instant heal tho.
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It has many downsides.
A lot of people run self-care and even if you unhook them, they start self-caring for 0.5 secs, wich means the perk won't be active.
If you're chased the first then the perk use get reduced to one, if you're being camped or tunneled then you won't have any use of it. Since you only had two times to use it.
Even if you get unhooked, there is a small chance that you will run into the killer in less than 30 seconds. So if the killer downs you in less than 30 seconds, the perk becomes disabled.
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To be fair. There are only 2 perks that can help if you are being faced camped.
And BT/DS are neither of them.
I'm talking about camaraderie and Kindred. Because all other perks in the game require you to actually be unhooked or otherwise not be on the hook. Or they just don't do anything anyways.
But like the point is that a perk not working if you are camped to death really doesn't say much.
That's like saying all creatures are bad in MTG because they die to removal.
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Because if you get caught by the killer before you can get to a locker or people cleanse all totems your perk is useless. Second Wind is more of an anti tunnel perk
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I run Second Wind on a Mettle of Man build and I get it off successfully about half the time, which in my opinion is about what a perk should do. Some killers inherently stop it, but thats the risk one runs with those kinds of perks.
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not really since it takes 30 seconds of being broken then you heal it is evenj sllwer than self care and can only be used once a match
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Second Wind isn't bad but just too picky on requirements while other perks can heal you but more consistently or with less requirements.
Self Care is just heal yourself whenever, no requirement to use it.
Botany speeds up healing and let's you use Medkits longer than usual.
Medkits themselves just being a heal your carrying around.
Inner Strength being a pocket heal for when you need it and simply requiring you to break one totem which shouldn't be too difficult to find at least one every match then entering a locker which typically spawn around generators.
Pharmacy guaranteeing you always find an Emergency Medkit on your first chest search.
If they loosened up on the requirements a little the perk would be better instead of hoping nobody else healed themselves even 0.1% not letting you activate it.
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It's delayed but it's still instant.
Self care is 32 seconds of standing still doing a channel. So self care takes 32 seconds.
Second wind just automatically heals you after 30 seconds has past. So while the heal may only happen once you've waited 30 seconds, it isn't taking up that time. So you're spent 0 seconds on healing yourself.
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well personally it is not a perk i would main but if you like it knock yourself out
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