What If Dead Hard Also Did This?

Acromio said:

No.
/thread

Orion said:

No.

Any reasons why?  No is not constructive at all.

White_Owl said:

I think with the right setup an SWF team could use this to just annoy the killer. Besides, while it makes sense for David King it's still a teachable that can be used by others, but it doesn't makes sense that the tiny and weak Dwight or Claudette could stun a killer double their size.

xxaggieboyxx said:

no. would be abused and with 4 people having it, it would be op. also deadhard should have its distance covered increased but not make you invincible because i really hate it when weapons go through things and do nothing(in every game i play not just this)

Both somewhat valid points.

Some of the other Teachable Perks make no sense for other Survivors and Killers to even have so I feel that is not a valid argument.  In fact I think it is just nitpicking.

The other one is more valid, however; the fact it can only be used while injured presents a massive risk to use it in favor of your teammates.  Is it worth using Dead Hard to help my teammate?  That is a call you have to make because you could be the next one being chased and your Dead Hard is not ready to use.

As for annoying the Killers, I do not see it as an issue unless the Killer is an idiot.  If you are not perceptive as a Killer, you are playing the wrong role.  A No Mither build with Dead Hard would be annoying, sure, but it takes one hit to incapacitate a Survivor.  So if a Killer decides to slug, the No Mither players can just get up.  The Killer just needs to be more alert when picking up a Survivor - just like if a nearby Survivor is sitting at a pallet to save their friend or if they have a flashlight.  And if the Survivors continuously just Dead Hard the Killer, they are wasting time getting Generators.

jakeb_1993 said:

I wouldn't say that would be worth it. The idea I'd being able to stun a killer wherever they are would break the game.

I would say having a bigger speed boost to cover more ground, something perhaps similar but just short of a sprint burst might be a better way to go. Right now Dead hard only buys you a best an extra 3-4 seconds

How would it break the game?  It would add a choice that can either pay off nicely or fail miserably.

That sounds like an interesting idea but why not just make Sprint Burst a toggle like Dead Hard?

Mc_Harty said:

[BAD WORD] no.

Last thing this game needs is another perk that stuns killers.

I disagree.

The last thing the game needs are more obsession perks.  There are a lot, especially when The Spirit is released.

There is only one other perk that stuns Killers, as far as I know, and that is Decisive Strike.  I think it is a terrible perk and a waste of a slot.

The Killer even has a perk to nullify the effects of being stunned.  I forget if it applies to perk stuns but if it does not, it could be changed to do so.  Simply fix for a counter.

PigNRun said:

Yzalirk said:

jakeb_1993 said:

I wouldn't say that would be worth it. The idea I'd being able to stun a killer wherever they are would break the game.

I would say having a bigger speed boost to cover more ground, something perhaps similar but just short of a sprint burst might be a better way to go. Right now Dead hard only buys you a best an extra 3-4 seconds

How would it break the game?  It would add a choice that can either pay off nicely or fail miserably.

That sounds like an interesting idea but why not just make Sprint Burst a toggle like Dead Hard?

Sure, remove the one tiny limitation Sprint Burst has, unlike other Exhaustion perks. What would be the point of choosing Dead Hard if SB could be toggled at will (even mid chase) with more lasting effects?

And, no, DH stunning the killer not only makes little sense, it would also be too powerful. There has to be a balance for everything. At least DS has a condition. This change would make it an on demand stun.

Did you not read my previous posts?

The point of choosing Dead Hard over Sprint Burst would be the decision to stun the Killer if you want to help a teammate, whether that is so they do not get hooked or buy time for your teammate to find a safe spot.  It could also work to buy yourself some time instead if you choose to be selfish or are the last one alive.  This can only be triggered while injured so making the risk worth the reward if you pull it off.

Sprint Burst is great for simply running away and can be used if you are healthy or injured.  It can be used to distance yourself further from the Killer unlike Dead Hard.  It is suited for a nonagressive play style.  If it were a toggle, it can be used when you want to use it.  For example, you are working on a Generator and the Killer is coming.  You want to get to a safe spot to hide quickly without using your Sprint Burst because your are not spotted yet.

I feel like your last statements are nitpicking.  The animation for Dead Hard looks perfect for stunning a Killer if you dash at them.  You have your forearm out and it would hit them in the stomach or lower torso.  That would hurt anyone.  There are also balances to it that I stated previously.  If you use it for yourself, you are getting close to the Killer, stunning them, and running away.  They can still follow the scratches and probably see you in the distance.  If you use it to help a teammate run away, the same conditions apply but it includes the teammate as well.  They can still be found and caught if they are not careful.  And if you use it to prevent a teammate from being hooked, the same conditions apply.

An excellent counter would be the Enduring perk for the Killer if they have it equipped.  If it only works for pallet stuns, that can easily be fixed to apply to all physical stuns.  It also boils down to the Killer’s skill as well.  If they are not looking around to make sure an injured Survivor is not charging them, than that is their damn fault.

PigNRun said:

Yzalirk said:

jakeb_1993 said:

I wouldn't say that would be worth it. The idea I'd being able to stun a killer wherever they are would break the game.

I would say having a bigger speed boost to cover more ground, something perhaps similar but just short of a sprint burst might be a better way to go. Right now Dead hard only buys you a best an extra 3-4 seconds

How would it break the game?  It would add a choice that can either pay off nicely or fail miserably.

That sounds like an interesting idea but why not just make Sprint Burst a toggle like Dead Hard?

Sure, remove the one tiny limitation Sprint Burst has, unlike other Exhaustion perks. What would be the point of choosing Dead Hard if SB could be toggled at will (even mid chase) with more lasting effects?

And, no, DH stunning the killer not only makes little sense, it would also be too powerful. There has to be a balance for everything. At least DS has a condition. This change would make it an on demand stun.

Did you not read my previous posts?

The point of choosing Dead Hard over Sprint Burst would be the decision to stun the Killer if you want to help a teammate, whether that is so they do not get hooked or buy time for your teammate to find a safe spot.  It could also work to buy yourself some time instead if you choose to be selfish or are the last one alive.  This can only be triggered while injured so making the risk worth the reward if you pull it off.

Sprint Burst is great for simply running away and can be used if you are healthy or injured.  It can be used to distance yourself further from the Killer unlike Dead Hard.  It is suited for a nonagressive play style.  If it were a toggle, it can be used when you want to use it.  For example, you are working on a Generator and the Killer is coming.  You want to get to a safe spot to hide quickly without using your Sprint Burst because your are not spotted yet.

I feel like your last statements are nitpicking.  The animation for Dead Hard looks perfect for stunning a Killer if you dash at them.  You have your forearm out and it would hit them in the stomach or lower torso.  That would hurt anyone.  There are also balances to it that I stated previously.  If you use it for yourself, you are getting close to the Killer, stunning them, and running away.  They can still follow the scratches and probably see you in the distance.  If you use it to help a teammate run away, the same conditions apply but it includes the teammate as well.  They can still be found and caught if they are not careful.  And if you use it to prevent a teammate from being hooked, the same conditions apply.

An excellent counter would be the Enduring perk for the Killer if they have it equipped.  If it only works for pallet stuns, that can easily be fixed to apply to all physical stuns.  It also boils down to the Killer’s skill as well.  If they are not looking around to make sure an injured Survivor is not charging them, than that is their damn fault.  If you cannot adapt and get with the program, you are playing the wrong role.

Spiritbx said:

No is the r8ght answer here.  
  
Lets take this scenario, obsession loops the killer for like 2-3 minutes with the help
of DS. Finally gets caught. Teammate comes up and dh and they go free.  
  
If the killer ever catches one of these, another survivor comes and dh the killer for another free escape.  
  
Ok now killer is fully aware of what is going on, and so after downing the nexr person he checks the area to see if any survivors are nearby. He finds one.  
  
Oh lool, they ran to a loop spot and now the downed survivor can no mither or get help and heal up by the time the killer catches the person he saw.  
  
All this time 1 or 2 people are on gens, and the gens get done with no progress or hooks made by the killer.  
  
The killer is toyed with and then probably gets harrassed by the toxic survivors in post game chat for being bad despite having no power to ever do anything except hope the survivors mess up.  
  
Sounds like a fun and balanced.time to you?

If the Killer is looping for more than 2 minutes, they are either an idiot or just bad.  Maybe a bit of both.

Your hypothetical situation only works assuming the Killer hit a Survivor and is using Dead Hard or if they are running No Mither as well.  If the Killer hit a Survivor and does not pursue them, that is their mistake.  And why is the Killer hitting Survivors while bringing one to a hook in the first place?  If a Survivor has No Mither as well, that will probably result in them being targeted, like the Obsession.  Killers do it now to No Mither users anyways so why not give them some more utility?

Not all Survivors are toxic though and if the Killer is good enough they can get everyone.  Organized groups might be a pain in the ass but the game should never be easy.

And yes, I do believe it would be a balanced addition.  Especially if Enduring works on the stun.

Sarief said:

stun: 2 sec
x4 = 8 sec
recharge 40 sec
with vigil 32 seconds.
Dunno, does vigil stacks?
any way, you can stun killer for 2 second every 8 seconds.
In a world where looping is still up (#########?) it's like having infinite loops on single pallets.
also, if he carries survivor, he's released, which means, no one can get up.

this is bullshit

That is assuming the Dead Hard users get away all the time, which is highly unlikely.  Killers can still follow the scratches and see them in the distance.  The pursuit is still back on.

Also exhaustion perks no longer recharge while sprinting so that is another wall preventing it from being spammed.  It is a situational perk because you could use it to rescue another Survivor or use it to get to a pallet quicker.

White_Owl said:

@remember_me88 said:
White_Owl said:

I think with the right setup an SWF team could use this to just annoy the killer. Besides, while it makes sense for David King it's still a teachable that can be used by others, but it doesn't makes sense that the tiny and weak Dwight or Claudette could stun a killer double their size.

but thats actually the meaning of "teachable" so they are able to do so...but i am just a poor boy, i need no sympathy! 

If Schwarzenegger showed you how to lift 100kg would you learn how to do it or would you just crumble trying?

That is like nothing for Arnold but he would teach you how to get there.  You would have to build up to it first and do everything with the proper technique otherwise you can hurt yourself.

Acromio said:

Please, some close this dumpster.

I take it you are a salty Killer main, yes?

You have provided no useful criticism to my suggestion nor have you attempted to do so.  If you do not like it, than go away, move on.

CoolAKn said:

Someone talked about this idea on a DBD live stream yesterday. I think the trade-off for using Dead Hard to stun the killer should be where it will cause the user to have the Hindered status effect for 5 seconds, and causes them to be Broken for 60/50/40 seconds OR doubles the Exhaustion time. This way, it is a greater risk/reward that stunning the killer will leave you vulnerable.

I really like that, great idea!