Does DS really need a nerf?
So, I'm new here I've been playing this game for about 9 months now, and I'm at red ranks, DS is probably used 80% of the time and I notice how killers (Red ranks at least) either avoid it or eat it. I notice if the killer is aggressive he's gonna eat the DS and not give a * BAD WORD* about it and continue going after Mr. DS. If the killer doesn't wanna get a 5 second stun he'll ignore it and slug. But I've noticed about everyday I go on to the forums I see at least 1 discussion about how DS needs a nerf because of how annoying it is. Please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it already get a nerf? I'm watching old DBD videos and it seems like you could use DS anytime you wanted. I don't see the big deal about it. You either ignore it or eat it, simple eating it is probably for the best so it is used early game. The majority that are complaining either ignore it until end game, which I don't and usually just consume it so I don't have to deal with it later. I run DS but I don't abuse it by jumping in lockers, personally I just hate getting tunneled and if it comes down to having an extra chance of NOT dying I'd like to have it. Thoughts?
Comments
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DS is essentially a free hook healthstate for 60 seconds, times 4. The strongest thing that killers would have would be exposed Perks like Devour Hope and Haunted Grounds but those are countered way easier and way less time consuming.
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No. The only ones complaining that DS should be nerfed are bots that pick up survivors without thinking. IDGAF if you tunneled or not, if the guy was on the hook less than 60 seconds ago don't pick them up.
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It does because in most cases it isn't anti tunnel but more a momentum killer.
Someone will be unhooked and I will unintentionally down him 30s later. Now I must slug him and lose all pressure.
Or I'll hook someone about 5 seconds after someone got unhooked down them 45s later and still get ds'ed.
Not to mention it makes you invincible in the endgame
So yes I'd say ds should be on a 30s timer than doesn't go down in a chase but deactivates when touching a generator fully healing or someone else is downed.
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DS got a rework, not a nerf. It's more powerful now than it ever was. You have to treat every survivor as if they have it. Old DS only gave it's full power to the obsession, everyone else had to at least wiggle to 30% before getting the skill check. Also, old ds was a 4 second stun and could be effected by enduring, lowering it to 2 seconds. Also, the new DS skill check is easier to hit....and I still miss it :P
My solution to it would be once a survivor gets unhooked DS gets activated for them and all other DS's get deactivated. Only one active DS at a time. This would make it exclusively an anti-tunnel perk, which is what I think it should be.
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It needs to be less exploitable
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Yeah. Exactly. Another chance of not dying in form of a perk. Put in three more and you got FOUR chances to not die. See the problem?
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I don't think it needs a nerf, it needs to change. As in, change what it's function is. Even the Devs have said DS isn't an anti tunnelling perk, it's a perk that gives you 60 seconds of a "do-whatever-the-hell-you-want" state. And I'd rather it become an anti tunnelling perk. Like, give it a longer duration, but disable the perk when a survivor works on a gen or another survivor gets hooked.
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It's too abusable in it's current state is the problem. Killers have to constantly keep pressure and a 5 second stun can kill a lot of it by giving the survivor time to get away and can reset a whole game at times. I think the perk should be changed to 30 seconds cool-down and pause during chase if the timer is active. There's no way you're getting tunneled in 30 seconds. It's enough to time to leave where you are and heal up while also not being a whole ass minute just to pick up a survivor.
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Then eat it before endgame? A lot of threads go into how DS makes a survivor invincible, but it really doesn't if you are smart about it like most killers who don't brainlessly act like DS is a myth.
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Yes, it needs a change. A lot of people, after a certain someone tried to say that a perk that gives you a free outs for 60 seconds after being unhooked is NOT an anti-tunnel perk, have tried to describe it as a perk that encourages survivors to make bold plays. But the point of a bold play is that there is risk involved, and DS REMOVES THE RISK. Instead of having to craft a strategy around the resources you have, you can just get unhooked and act like an absolute moron for 60 seconds because why tf not, worst-case scenario is the killer slugs you and snowballs, BUT that would happen if you weren't using DS because slugging is only valuable if you CAN snowball, and slugging the DS without other survivors there to snowball, or picking them up and eating the 5-second stun, is just giving someone what is essentially a 4th hook state for free and that really isn't okay. Sure, run it to punish tunelling, that's great, but if you hit that skillcheck after sitting on a gen, going for a save, healing under the hook or vaulting into a locker, you didn't by any stretch of the imagination get tunelled and shouldn't have a free escape just for equipping a perk.
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Of course not. Only entitled killer mains thinks it needs a nerf or change. They are equivalent to an entitled survivor main that thinks NOED needs a nerf.
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I think someone mentioned that DS was buffed to have a longer stun duration when Enduring used to work on it, but Enduring was nerfed by DS kept the buff.
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If you look at any tournament in this game, they ban DS, 100% of the time because its that broken.
Thankfully in pubs, its effect is much less noticeable because of how people play, and how you play to have a fun match (not tunneling, camping, etc).
However when you come up against a group of really good survivors (solo or SWF), you realise that the most efficient way of playing is tunneling someone down while getting people off gens and proxy camping. You cannot play the usual way (hooking everyone equally) against good squads or you will lose unless you are spirit or nurse.
Aaaaaand guess what perk directly counters that? DS.
If you're just willing to have fun and not care about winning against these squads (or winning in general), then DS should have very little effect on you, however, if you want to try and win against them, you'll realise why its so complained about and why its used in a good 98% of SWF games.
Survivors are not helpless when they get tunneled, it's their job to loop the killer for a while and make him bail you or stall him for 5 gens. If they get farmed then BT activates and if they are being hard camped camaraderie activates.
So does it need a nerf? For people trying to win a game it needs another full rework lmao. OR something needs to be added so we can hard counter it 100% (and pyramid head does NOT count, maybe a perk or something).
Ive said it in another thread, we have BT and camaraderie, we don't need DS.
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I want to say DS change was one of the best changes this game ever had went from old DS unfair and free escape, to become an anti-tunnel perk and made the game for survivors less frustration.
If they ever gonna change it make it when DS-Survivor start working on a gen or he unhooked someone else, or someone else getting hooked while you are not being downed the perks deactivited. Thats it.
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This, my GOD!
If we can purchase Medals like on Reddit, I'd give you a ######### Platinum medal.
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I mean either eat or ignore it, there really isn't another way around it, UNLESS you are playing pyramid head ofc.
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Honestly. I think it should be changed so it's deactivated once you go into a locker. Imagine just jumping into a locker, using DS, going back in and then using head on. I don't even get why survivors say "it's a anti tunneling perk" no, it's a second chance perk like most survivor perks.
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DS should require BOTH killer and surv to do the hard skill check, and the one that does more inside the great skill check area, wins
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But it's a perk meant for surviving just like how NOED, haunted ground,and devour soup is meant for kills. Yeah paired with other perks makes it seem impossible to deal with but who doesn't get those feelings with killer builds and perks, not even just killers but survivor perks too.
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Yes, DS is way too abuseable by survivors and is a complete get out of jail free perk with literally no drawbacks. It's why the devs have said that they are looking into DS too make it less abuseable.
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It's a 1 time use with a easy counter. Same as Noed, failing all game then getting a free kill because of it, that sounds like a get out of jail card to me. Both of these perks are complained about A LOT and I see no reason why. I play both survivor and killer and I face them most of my games and really don't see an issue since I know how to evade them.
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NOT PICKING U UP IS NOT A COUNTER !!!!
If i don't pick you up and start ignoring you and searching for someone instead, i lose pressure
No offense but if you don't play killer at Rank 1 you can't talk
You don't understand how fustrating it is to having to keep you on the ground and losing all the pressure
It's stupid
The only thing they could do is having DS to deactivate as soon as a survivor touches a gen, unhooks someone, heal, or stuff like that
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It is, if prevents you from being D striked it's a counter, I play at rank 1 killer and survivors can be a real pain sometimes, but they think they are untouchable with DS ((which they aren't)) and get really cocky, I eat the DS and catch them real quick (( Spirit)) and hook them again. Slugging takes someone of a gen because you are chasing another survivor while the other is healing the downed person. That's some pressure.
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I don't always get the chance to do that. How can I "tunnel" all 4 survivors before endgame
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Note that not everyone main spirit and it's not that easy to catch up with the other killers
Plus, DS in the end game is literally broken
Honestly man i have a different opinion on that, i feel like we could argue a decade and still not come up with a solution
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To me, it's crystal clear that DS is over abused and over powered and the only players who say the opposite are only survivor mains
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Ds just need to be deactivated if the survivor starts fixing gens, going for unhooks or doing totems
But it's a survivor perk soo highly doubt it will get nerfed
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I don't care about DS it's fine by me I'd hated more if it was permanently active through out the match.
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This. Also to balance it male 30 seconds but timer stops if you are in chase. I saw this idea in a recente Scott Jund video, and I thinl this Is almost the perfect way to balance it. Because it will Be a more defensive anti tunnel però, and a less immunity aggressive play perk.
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The only real issue i see is, it encourages killers in the egc to camp the hook, as if someone gets unhooked and has ds he is 99% of the time safe to escape. But before egc it is completely avoidable, only the locker plays can be annoying.
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I think the timer is a bit too generous. I'd move it down to 30 seconds. I'd also pause the timer while in chase and if you get slugged.
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So shorten the timer, but remove the only quasi-counter it has?
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Only thing DS needs is that if you start healing or repairing action the timer should move 2-3x faster. If you can repair generator you aren't being tunneled but just carried with a perk.
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Nah, disable it outright when you start repairing a generator, get into a locker, or are fully healed, and when the killer downs someone else.
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nicely put
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Instead of "when the killer down someone" it should be "when the killer hooks someone". If another survivor goes for a dumb play and unhooks you in front of the killer the killer can't just down both of you and hook you again immediately. By forcing them to hook whoever went for the awful unhook first there is a slight chance for someone competent to come help you.
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It's annoying because most DSers play super aggressivly. They intentionly put themselves in harms way and when the killer chooses to slug because they anticipate DS they bring unbreakable.
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The idea being to make it closer to a anti tunnel perk. If you're chasing them within 30 seconds of an unhook I feel no sympathy for you getting hit with DS.
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And the slugging part?
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If you slug them within 30 seconds I don't feel any sympathy for them.
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No it doesn’t but it’s going to get nerfed into the ground anyways. Calling it now, they will make it trash tier so that no one will run it and the amount of tunneling will increase ten fold.
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DS needs changes, it covers way too many bases. Not picking them up is not really a good counter because you still wasted your time and are losing out on pressure and a hook state when the game is already moving to fast for most killers.
There's a lot of suggestions to fix the perk but the way it is now its way too easy to abuse and punishes the killer for what should be a survivor misplay a lot of the time. Not to mention the free heal the survivor gets.
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Slugging sadly doesn't get enough credit that it should. If you slug the DS user go after the person whom unhooked, that'll force another person off a generator, you have 3 people not doing any gens. And if you manage to catch the person quick enough you could probably interrupt the person healing the slug. Let's face facts, DS it's getting nerfed anytime soon no matter how OP it is and that's the truth whether killer mains like it or not. I don't care for the perk but a lot of people seem to do.
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Yeah but then they just come for the one tap and you made no progress towards your end goal of killing them. Meanwhile that 4th person is still pushing the gens along. This is the same result that would happen with hooking someone but at least you made progress with your hook state. Slugging has a time and a place, but it being forced every time anyone gets unhooked is not going to be that time or place most of the time unless you're playing a slug killer or running a slug build. Killers are too pressed for time as is to be just stalled out these ways.
Not to mention if someone else has DS, they could easily be the one coming for the save putting the killer in a lose lose with barely any effort. Additionally unbreakable is running around a lot right now so you might just have that person just pick themselves up while the gens get pushed by the other 2. then we can throw BT into the mix and things get even messier.
DS alone is already a problem, but throw in the ridiculous synergy second chance perks have and it becomes way way worse.
The point is to try and bring attention to the issue to try and get it fixed. Especially because the devs said they're looking into it. If that's your position then I don't understand why you'd even bother commenting.
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I ask a simple question and wanted to see peoples opinions, I'm not exactly against a nerf I'm asking why? What the big deal, but I can see that most killer mains hate the way this perk is. I'm a curious person. Curiosity killed that cat I can see.
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IMO it doesn't.
I am a rank 1 survivor with 4000 hours and I often get red rank killers who know what they are doing and I hardly even use DS, because that's how much they know how to play around it. Some people just need to learn to do the same.
If they even think about touching DS, they need to do the same for the excessive slugging/camping/tunneling that is already the reason why this perk even exists.
Also, Welcome to DBD!
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I play both sides and I strongly dislike the way the perk is currently. Survivor games are fast, boring, and easy because there's not much most killers can do and killer games are too fast and frustrating because there's not much most killers can do. Survivors are just way too strong currently and DS is a part of that. It's most likely one of the main reasons why there's such a shortage of killer player causing really long survivor ques and near instant killer ques. DS has been a problem since its creation because of how strong its effect is. It really needs much stronger limitations.
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Wow thanks! I feel like some people claim it's OP and gives people immunity. I don't think that's really the case, but some disagree.
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I think DS alone is fine. However, DS combined with Unbreakable or a locker is absolute BS and must be nerfed.
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