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BHVR why would killers skip SWFs?
From my understanding BHVR don't give information pregame about SWFs because killers would skip lobbies.
Now could any SWF members please tell me why this is?
The obvious answer would be that BHVR have not balanced their game for SWF never mind SWFs with communications.
BHVR are painfully aware that their game isn't balanced but use the term balancing constantly with buff / nerfs to killers abilities/perks/addons/maps yet none of this has addressed the constant gap between SWFs and solo survivors.
Many killers post messages that they are leaving the game yet BHVR do nothing and whilst they seem to talk... nothing was said about their huge white elephant in their last stream, never mind a date.
I just played an SWF on comms who ran the usual stuff including OoO, t-bagging, messaging to try and get a rise but the trouble is that they became more and more upset with me pointing out that next time could they not cheat.
An example of cheating is where you have an unfair advantage over other players, they seriously couldn't defend themselves against this and became more and more upset that I had been outplayed and they were better players.
So BHVR, if the game is balanced show SWFs and if not do you think your product will remain when survivors have less and less killers to play as they constantly message they are leaving?
*I realise BHVR don't have an open discussion about this... but wouldn't it be nice to your customers where killers don't want to leave and wouldn't mind playing SWF or solos, you can at least try something to implement something to help your product?
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They did soften the gap between Solo and SwF by changing Kindred. The only thing is most people want a meta build they don't want to adjust for the lack of information that they could otherwise gain from perks.
Other than that I actually like your post man. Good job.
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A lot of killers like to blame their bad games on SWF. In reality they just did bad or the survivors did well.
People would dodge lobbies because of this bogeyman they have created.
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As someone who's ran Kindred since 2018 - it helps me play smarter than ever now. It does not make my team play any smarter than it has in years, unfortunately. (I agree with the logic of what it SHOULD have done though)
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Oh, another SWF-Thread by this person. I missed those. /s
And well, SWF was always in BHVRs mind. THis was told on this forum often enough. This "It was never intended" is simply BS.
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Even if the game was balanced around SWF's more and every killer got a nice big buff people would still dodge SWF's all the same. People like easy games and knowing if a group is SWF would only encourage more dodging; it doesn't matter how strong the killers are.
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Literally read any of the hundreds of threads on this godforsaken forum of bad killers blaming SWF for losing constantly. ######### killers that don't want to admit they have a lot of improving to do just blame SWF for every loss they experience, and they would just dodge every lobby. Despite the fact that BHVR's stats show that SWF's win percentage is only 8% higher than solo queue.
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They already tried balanced around a fully-comm'd SWF. It was called Death Garden. That game is as dead as it's name implies. As sad as it is, balancing around the minority just doesn't work in asymmetrical games. I used to believe in balancing the game around the top level of play, but no, this is a glorified party game. The sooner you accept this, all of the randomness of who you will face with what perks and where, the sooner you might start enjoying the game again. Or maybe you won't, maybe the game isn't for you and you'll move on. That's fine.
But in any case, it was pretty bad before but the number of full comm'd Delta Force-level SWF that are actually tryharding isn't even worth mentioning anymore, let alone balancing an entire game around it.
PS: "I'm done with this game, goodbye" messages get posted every single day by both sides. It's not really an indication of the overall game health.
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I support these 2 comments 🤞
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Some people say they're leaving to try to encourage the devs to make changes, even if they don't. They're multiple reasons why they won't show swfs before games:
- Obviously lobby dodging
- Blaming your losses on them
- Bringing stronger add-ons
- Being toxic just because they are swf
- Swf teams would face the same killers the whole time
This took me 30 seconds to think of all of these.
Also the attitude if its balanced then show it doesn't work in this game. I believe noed is balanced but that doesn't mean the survivors should know the killer has it.
I'd actually ask something. Since solo que and killer aren't balanced (in the killers favour) should solo que players be able to see who the killer is? Make it more fair for them so they don't leave.
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At that point though it's more a incompetence problem than the Dev's attempt in the right direction. While I admit its minuscule I like to toss them props when they deserve it for how much crap I spew about them I feel it's only right. I've never met someone who ran it so long that's awesome.
I run a build that someone mentioned here before when we were debating on builds. I've found my favorite build by far since that day.
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I just wish it didnt completely counter things like Knockout by itself. Feel like if the entire point of the perk being to deny information to your teammates gets nullified IF the person is on comms and can say "I went down by shack"... The perk should go back to the drawing board.
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"PS: "I'm done with this game, goodbye" messages get posted every single day by both sides. It's not really an indication of the overall game health."
most likely it is not even an indication that this player is actually quitting. From my experience in Onlinegames, those who say that they will quit, are not actually quitting.
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Thanks for the comments so far guys and don't mean to upset/offend anyone especially SWFs, it does seem to me that BHVR addressing would help avoid some of the disruption in our community.
Again, thanks for the postive comments
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Of course Perks like that should not exist in the first place. I also dont know why they never reworked Perks like Knockout or Blindness. Because those are pretty weak things, which cannot really be buffed because SWF would not care for it and it would only screw over Solos.
But I am also quite sure that BHVR does not really intend to close the Gap between Solo and SWF. Otherwise they would think about something like Indicators in the UI. They even said that they are not planning to make Kindred Basekit, since they recently buffed it, but this would be a huge step in closing the Gap.
However, I dont consider SWF as a problem. Because most SWFs are not good at the game.
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Its actually probably more due to perception rather than reality as when they posted the stats an swf escape rate was not that much higher than solo.
So what they don't want to condone are players being dodged due to this perception that some players have.
Now having an swf indicator at the end would be fine imo and it may just change the mindset of some players.
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I hate swf just as much as anyone else but complaining about it 24/7 isnt gonna fix anything
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@Aven_Fallen I'm confused by your post which just mentions "It was never intended" but was not said, nor is it the topic of the post.
@bobcat946732 I honestly wouldn't mind playing SWFs when I play killer if an attempt were to be made to balance. Things like OoO should never be in the SWFs toolkit but BHVR have talked about buffing solo survivors which would mean buffing Killers but then I feel this would be like turning everyone into superheros which would likely not be what was originally good about the game.
@Furry_Fuccboi I'm not sure where you are heading with your comments but you are talking about now and my original post would help fix this.
@HP150 to be honest I only see the killer quitting posts. DBD isn't like Death Garden in many ways but if they don't balance it for the minority 'Yin' then the majority 'Yang' can't play. I liked and understood your post but don't agree that it should be accepted as BHVR have come a long way in improving their game and attempts to truly attempt to balance the game would create better long term harmony for their product and everyone.
@CashelP14 without straying too far off topic if BHVR were to show SWFs at end game people would realise they just have had a bad game or not even.
By balancing SWFs it would make killers not even consider whether to lobby dodge, the fact they do is terrible for all of us and creates toxicity, BHVR should really have made attempts to fix this sooner.
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@Respectfulnancymain I do post about SWFs but not all the time. If your house is leaking water you mention this to your landlord, if others live in the house they mention it too. To not mention it or accept it would make people move out.
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And death garden still has shorter que times than DBD does right now despite the devs abandoning it.
And I've had a lot more fun on both sides in that game than I ever did in DBD.
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Feel like theres really no way of balancing between SWFs and solos without just adding voice coms to the game. No matter what you add to try to give the same information...it's never gonna be on par with someone flat out telling you "Shack pallet is thrown, the killer has exhaustion addons, ect".
As far as knockout goes... While I would love to try making loadouts with it, I dont wanna go through the friendslist of every survivor I face to make sure I'm against 4 solos and therefore my perk will actually work.
As far as the strength of SWFs goes...I KINDA agree. While its true you could have a group of people who only got to their current rank because of SWFs, you could also have 4 people who normally Solo Q and today they just have more info than normal because they grouped up. Thats the case for me alot when I play survivor. I mostly rely on bond to give me an idea of how I can work around my teammates, but when I decide to join a SWFs... now I get bonus info ontop of what I'm use to.
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You could use the exact same logic for why BHVR doesn't show survivors who the Killer is.
Is it because any specific killer is a problem? No. But people would dodge the ones they don't like and it would break the game. SWF do not win significantly more than random teams. They just present a greater challenge. Rise to the occasion.
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The imp! The imp is the solution! It’s a 6th player who can assist the killer and has built-in comms with him (telepathy via Entity). The killer toggles between whether he wants an imp helper or not. Imp games always prioritize SWFs over solos in matchmaking.
If you wanna read more, I’ve got a whole discussion about this that you can find in my profile.
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Easy answer: killers are well aware how bad theyre and just want easy games for themselfs.
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You basically ignored everything I said. Showing swf at the end of the game would be nice for information but a lot of killers would blame their potential loss or few kills on swf.
Balancing swfs? I'm playing as Bubba a lot recently, most games are grey add-ons and you'd be surprised how many I'm beating right now. Killers will still dodge swfs even if they were more "balanced" because they will still fear the tougher challenge.
Behaviour have made attempts. The recent map changes have been amazing for killers. Maps like farm and temple were tough maps to play as killer. Now I enjoy playing on both.
Answer me on this. Should solo see who the killer is? I don't see solo balanced to killer right now (because of the boosted randoms) so should we help them by telling them who the killer is?
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SWF can fight lower rank Killers if one of Them is also lower rank. So you know they are smurfing and want to Bully the killer.
If i see a 4 man swf in the lobby doing this i will definitely leave or play bubba basement because i am not playing that game.
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I get matched with low rank way more often than I'd like to as solo survivor. It's pretty frustrating being red rank tossed in a lobby of rank 20s that are new and afraid of the killer or just so bad they can't rank up. Also can tell when low rank killer is one that purposely depips for easy match - kills rest of my team way too fast for a new killer.
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They changed it to match based on the highest rank in the team to stop smurfing, it's only matching like this because it's broken atm - i.e. full red rank teams also get put against brand new killers.
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I would agree with your last statement 100%. There is a very obvious difference between red rank survivors who mostly play with SWF and red rank survivors who typically play solo.
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Because something like 70% of all matches have some form of SWF in it? I recall stats always showing that the majority of matches have SWF in some form, whether its 2,3, or 4 mans.
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The current model for making the big bucks in game development is in releasing new content every quarter. Whether it's newer players or old, new content always brings people back for a few weeks. So, it's not necessarily important to keep people satisfied at all times, just enough to keep them from leaving entirely. So many game developers do this; balancing is not nearly as important as pushing out content releases.
Sometimes companies don't try much at all to balance the game, and instead focus on balancing players' emotions/perceptions of balance. Just find the two most contentious parties in the community, place them on either ends of a spectrum, and waffle between the distribution of power, back and forth with each update, that way, both sides feel like 'they had their day'. Anything to keep us playing until the next content release.
Honestly, I'd be surprised if we ever saw dramatic balance brought to SWF groups. Either because the issue is just too challenging, or the content SWF create is just too juicy on streaming platforms - everyone loves watching the survivors humiliate the killer. People who play killer, or queue solo as survivor are the bottom feeders; the untouchables of the dbd caste system.
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BHVR? Are you there?
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Because they’re harder to beat
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my literal last game, similar to too many others.
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you can see that above.
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I was waiting for this 'BHVR balance games on SWFs' LMAO.
That is almost as bad as BHVR saying they originally intended to have SWF but ran out of time...
What was their thoughts of how this affects solo players? or OoO?
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I also like the SWF having full 3 tier perks x4 with the guy telling you BHVR balance on SWFs being the rank 16 (who obviously doesn't play often (ahem)).
I'm amazed you managed to have 3 perks and one of them was tier 2!
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How can that be? Surly BHVR have said they statically aren't a problem so they must be exactly the same as solo players as BHVR would balance the game otherwise... /s
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Why do you think they don't often release stats? I love the game, they've done a solid job, but it's THEIR game. I've shamelessly continued to shell out money hoping they'd listen to people proven to be consumers but it really doesn't matter. The demographic matters. I get the economic science behind it, it's just a shame that they have to work around swf because there's really no punishment you can dole out for a survivor group that bullies the killer who waits 10 minutes to play. I'll never be red rank, but i'll enjoy the game until the atmosphere overwhelms the enjoyment of the gameplay.
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Yeah, I don’t care about swf and I don’t think people should know if there is a swf. I just gave the reasoning on why killers would dodge. They’re intimidated
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Easy Fix: Solo Que and SWF que.
Killers who play Solo can experiment with killers, builds and play chill.
Killers who play SWF can go in expecting a challenge and bring killer/perks they feel are the best. Killers who play against SWF get a 100% to bp built in.
Survivors that play Solo get a bp bonus of some sort.
Swf don’t get nothing since they are cheating and killers fighting solos get nothing cause the incentive needs to go to those willing to fight the up hill battle~
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funny when people call swf the bogeyman of the game like it not real thing and swf is not overpowered at all plz.....🙄
also killer would dodge alot more they saw swf group not because they want easy game but they may not want to play bully sim match.😏
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Yea smurfing should not exist.
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If I would dodge SWF I would have to dodge 70% of my matches because some form of SWF is really common. If there was 2 queues and I would get more points playing against SWF, sign me the right up!
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Sorry bud, the "/s" indicates sarcasm.
I think we all know why I just find it interesting why it is so unfair and what lengths some people go to, balancing this game isn't what BHVR want it would seem with such an obvious imbalance.
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I just accepted that it's impossible to win some matches.
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You know that rank 16 depipped on purpose so their bully squad and beat low rank killers.
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As if showing who's in a swf would change anything. If a killer REALLY does not like swfs (on PC at least) they can just check the steam profile to check if that person is solo or not.
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Thats stupid. In solo q killers would have horrendous waiting times cause all SWFs are ignore which result in far less survivors than already in the game and swf survivors would have the same issue cause nearly no scaredy catwaka killer would be there.
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i know they common then people think but it the 3men or 4men that killer hate and be the one people want to dodge.
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Still that would be a lot of dodging. Either accept that you can't win and just take the loss or practice and get better and beat them. Most of SWFs are winnable.
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