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PH First impressions against red ranks.
So far everyone has been able to dodge his power quite easily, and the post animation stun is pretty punishing.
Will keep practicing to see if he gets better.
Comments
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Thanks for the update! I am curious to see once both sides get a better feel for him.
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I'm hoping either for faster animation (or even no outline) OR he gets less stun time (maybe if he still has power meter left after the attack?)
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Yeah, make a decision in about a month after you've played/seen enough of him. I think he's got the potential to be amazing in the right hands, similarly to Oni or Nurse.
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He's definitely not as easy as people make him out to be. Power can be easily dodged compared to Demo's Shred but still works similarly. I feel as though his power effect only works at vaults, narrow halls, or mind games. Any other time, you have to feign it for a hit.
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Feel like most of his power is gonna come from him being able to challenge window vaults and such. He'll end up putting survivors in a similar predicament as a Huntress with a hatchet up in that survivors become an easy target when they're locked in the vaulting animation, allowing you to get closer as they try to guess when the attack is coming to juke.
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Hence the title First impressions. Right now I'm putting him below Demo.
He's movement feels sluggish as well, in guessing cause he's big.
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Ive been attempting adept PH and its been a nightmare. 😂 His base perks are horrid and dont help him too much.
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Yup.
It's exactly what we saw on the test server. Good players won't let you hit them with it raw, but it's a guaranteed hit on vault/pallet/etc animations so he negates certain loops/tactics.
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He's a zoning killer. Use the ranged attack when they're locked in a vault or pallet drop animation. Other than that, you have almost no penalty for canceling and move at 110%. You'll get very easy m1's because they can't commit to the animation and lose a ton of distance in the process. The only thing they can do is to bait you into cancelling and it's not a great option as well.
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He almost certainly got shadownerfed. Power cooldown was absolutely increased. Pretty underhanded if intentional, not to mention completely unjustified. His power already had a blatant telegraph, limited range, and almost no ability to flick. No need to increase the recovery to over 3 seconds. There should be some expectation that survivors are looking at their screens and reacting appropriately.
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I like forced penance...a lot...im for SURE running it on legion
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He feels quite weak to me. Extremely easy to dodge ability, with an extremely punishing recovery time. Cages would be nice in that they save you a lot of time aka more pressure, except they give free saves and cost you most the meta gen control perks.
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In conjunction with other killer's powers its a good perk but on PH...meh. :/
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Yup. Until his Punishment ability is actually scary or the cages actually do heavy lifting he's sitting comfortable at B tier.
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I have given up trying to hit his ability and instead just using as an m1 killer with the cage ability and zoning with the rites. It's just laughable easy to dodge unless they are locked into an animation. having a big glowing section on the ground is a bit much.
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I had some good games with him this morning. Just some thoughts:
I had alot of success canceling his power and going for the M1 when they start trying to juke, im running STBFL on him and the chases were short. It worked in places where i would normally get looped into oblivion. Just canceling it a few times would be enough to get them off the loop and once they were in the open it was game over.
When I would try and use his power the only times I had success with it was when i got the drop on them and got them through walls (I'm running Monitor and Discordance). Trying to actually use it in a chase yielded nothing, trying to lead them was too hard :,(
I thought I was gonna be sending people to cages mostly but it turns out I was hooking them more often than not. Maybe thats just how I was playing idk if a really good pyramid head would be doing that.
When I downed someone who was in torment and there was another survivor nearby, for sure i sent them to a cage because its quicker. Not everyone I downed was in torment though. I'm running BBQ and got decent stacks on it every game.
On the other hand I did get to use his Final Judgement more than I thought I would. And that was helpful because its a quick animation and I could get back to looking for survivors quicker than taking them to their final hook.
I'm running BBQ, STBFL, Discordance and M&A and I had alot of fun with it but i doubt thats his ideal build. I dumped over 1 million BP into him, I want Nurses Calling Tier 3 and I'm All Ears to swap out for BBQ and Discordance so I can use his power more effectively, but I have a feeling it'll still be tough because you have to lead them and I suck with all the projectile killers.
I think hes a ton of fun and his loop ending potential is amazing. I got way more hits than i though I would just by faking the power and going for the M1. STBFL came in clutch.
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Starting off, I understand that tunneling and camping are legit strats, I refuse to admit they are good for the game.
Stating that, I think his biggest power is also the reason every survivor is going to hate him. The game should be fun for both sides and this killers whole power encourages the play styles so many people dislike playing against. His power also removes all of the abilities that help survivors counter those play styles.
Now do I want his power to change Yes/No. I think right now he is a solid A killer due to is ability to counter anti tunneling and camping perks. I would suggest the following changes to at least make his power a little less tunneler approved
- Remove his ability to see cages
- Survivors are sent to a random cage outside of his TR
I believe these simple changes would easily drop his status to B or C which is still good, perks like DS and BT still wont work which is good. It will make it slightly more effort to tunnel out of cage but not impossible.
PS: I am aware people who want to tunnel are going to hate these changes, but honestly if you want to tunnel and knowingly make the game unfun for one side, I honestly don't care about your opinion. The game should be fun and rewarding for both sides.
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While i agree cage location should be random, removing his ability to see cage is not a good idea. This is why:
1: It'll be too safe for survivors to do the uncage and healing, making the cage worse than the hook.
2: If you cage a survivor during EGC, it's basically a free save and free escape because you can't defend it at all.
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BTW, my experience as PH in red rank is... silver gatekeeper + iridescent chaser.
For silver gatekeeper: Every survivors i met ran in straight line to waste as much time as possible, since PH don't have any ability for map pressure.
For iri chaser: Some survivors still don't know how to dodge the range attack since it's new. I expect the range attack will be borderline useless in months since they can react to it.
Sooo..... i think he's just another M1 killer that gets destroyed in big maps. Also, caging is a gimmick mechanics which can be prevented so easily by not getting tormented.
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- 1. This could be a balance due to the fact that sending them to the cage is penalty free. A survivor can't wiggle, there is no chance for a flashlight save, they can't take hits to prevent a hook, and lastly there is not pallet save for sending someone to the hook. The ability to make it safe for uncaging and healing could be that you used a method survivors can't counter to get a hook stage.
- 2. Sending survivors out of your TR could also be a way to prevent an escape just as much as a way to get an escape. For example, I just used his power to send them into a cage on the other side of the map away from both doors. So this is a double edged sword. Also you don't have to send them to a cage, you can still always pick them up an carry them to a hook. He is a very flexible killer.
The question is, do you see his ability to tunnel without consequence as an issue?
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I think the cages should be threated like hooks for the perks. Like DS, BT, we'll make it, kindred, deliverance and probably a few more are completely useless against PH when tormented.
And yeah, playing solo with randoms ending up in cages which 100% counter my perks are just BS.
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While there might be abit of overlap, that doesnt mean he's not good on his own. While I may be comparing the interaction with Huntress for example, dont forget how slow Huntress moves while holding up that hatchet. PH can apply that same lvl of zoning while maintaining alot of his speed and he doesnt need a cleared path like Demo does to do it. You can still zone a survivor away from a window even if theres a box between you and the window.
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I love that some perks are useles sagainst cages maybe thus will shake up perk meta 🤩
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Theres strengths and weaknesses for sure. While Demo might have more map pressure due to portals, he also has to have a clear shot to use his shred. As for Deathslinger, theres the obvious difference of being slower.
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I mained old Freddy, lol. Was the first killer I hit rank 1 with. I just know its still really early and he DOES have things that lets him excel at what he does. Its not like Billy vs Bubba where you have to REALLY strain to find ANYTHING he does better.
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Watching tru3 on the pbe, he faked the ranged attack a lot. Like a ######### ton, especially when approaching loops and pallets. This really ######### with the survivors as some would straight up not drop pallets in fear of the attack and end up losing in the loops because of it.
Of course, you still have to be able to hit the attacks.
But yeah, PH has map pressure problems(rip all non-mobile killers) that is semi-alleviated by using cages to cut down on time carrying survs to hooks.
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I have been having some really good games with him, what he lacks in map pressure he compensates. with good chase potential with rites of. jugement (if used correctly) and the ability to negate a lot of perks. A mistake I have seen a lot of people made is abusing his cages, you are not supposed to use them all the time.
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When I said clear shot, I ment he can hit you even if a box is in the way. I know Groaning storehouse for example has boxes and such infront of a window in the main building. You wouldnt be able to pressure that window with shred, but you WOULD be able to with PH.
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Yeah, slight changes in elevation screw it and I agree...that should be looked at. On the PTB I had a survivor stand on the bumps in the ground where the chains in the main courtyard was and found my special didnt do anything with that bit of elevation change... As far as slugging potentional goes though, PH for the most part doesnt NEED to slug. By this I mean his cage mechanic is a solution to 2 of the reasons youd wanna slug to begin with, waiting out DS and immediately chasing another target.
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