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Easy solution to hook suicides
I'm seeing a lot of threads crop up with a lot of comments frustrated about survivors killing themselves right away on the hook, and it confuses me because there's a pretty simple solution to solve this problem (which I'm not sure people have discussed because I'm not reading through a full 5 or 3 pages of comments on multiple threads)
When a survivor gets hooked initiate a hidden timer that the system keeps track of how long a survivor has been hooked. If a survivor hits second state and stops struggling before 10 or 20 seconds have passed they get hit with some kind of punishment, say a subtraction of 5000 bloodpoints from your total earned that match or something.
My first thought was hitting people in BP but the punishment for doing this could literally be anything, it could be treated exactly like DC penalties if the community requested in worked that way, preventing people from queuing and playing again until a certain period of time has passed.
The timer itself is also subject to any kind of change I just suggested 10 or 20 seconds because it's a short time period meant to deter / discourage / stop players from letting go immediately as soon as possible. But it could be something longer like 30 seconds
Hell, create a big penalty on letting go right away or quickly after, and a small penalty for letting go at any point before you would have died naturally. Survivors should be fighting to stay alive for as long as possible, providing more incentives like increased BP for doing so is also a good way to combat this issue.
Comments
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They should just remove the struggle mechanic, as it solves this problem. Everyone already hates it and its pointless, its probably the worst part about playing survivor.
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You can't force people to stay in a match they don't want to play
If my team is doing nothing no gens are getting done and the killer is circling around the hook clueless on what to do why should I stay in the match?
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They did it with DC penalties, and i'm tired of hearing this argument.
Name a single other multiplayer game that allows you to sucide/remove yourself from the game while playing ranked.
DotA
LoL
CS:GO
Rainbow 6
Every MMO
All of these games have punishments for leaving games early or intentionally "feeding" (killing yourself on purpose) some of these penalties are extremely hefty. DotA/LoL/CS:GO will actually ban you for several days for doing it, and if you keep doing it your ban eventually escalates to permanent.
The moment you queued up, you signed up to play a game of Dead by Daylight. If you don't like the game or can't finish it, don't queue up. If you don't like how solo survivors play, play with friends. When you queued up for a solo queue game, you signed up for it.
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That way, the person who decides they want to ragequit because they were downed quickly can't just screw over their teammates so easily.
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Raise kobe chance so people can't kill themselves on hook 😎
In all seriousness, if camping is punished without impacting bloodpoints then hook suicide shouldn't either. Make it an emblem punishment or something. Or perhaps rework hooks entirely, cannot attempt escape without certain perks / offerings (luck addons, deliverance, slippery meat) and make second stage skill checks like pyramid head cages.
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The devs have already addressed this idea directly on the last Q&A basically saying they never have in the past or present, and most likely never will consider this a potential change in the future.
Besides, this is a clear over-exaggeration from veterans and other clearly experienced members of the community who have become desensitized to what is actually going on in the game. I have seen so many new players especially from videos back in 2016 freak out when they realize they need to struggle for their lives. Which is the appropriate reaction, that's what it is intended for new players to feel like.
And yes, I've also seen new players like xQc who are not impressed by the feature at all and roll their eyes at it, in which case the solution should be to make that aspect of the game more interactive and intense, not by removing it completely.
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I absolutely agree with this and I have been seeing a lot of teammates either pointing out others to me or DCing early. I don't get why the Survivor base seems to be spiraling out.
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Except after the first 5 times it happens to you, it wears off, and becomes a chore. I understand their reasoning, but it's a gameplay thing. For gameplay reasons, it's just not fun, nobody likes it, it damages my spacebar, and my hands, people with physical disabilities can't play the game because of it. And most of all, it adds nothing to the gameplay itself beyond those first couple of games.
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+1000000000
I wish more people thought this way because it makes undeniable sense. You're playing a game for its experience in its entirety not JUST the good stuff like getting constant 4K's or escaping all the time. The good times wouldn't be as good if you never had anything bad to compare them to
And it's true, no game ever encourages just cutting out in the middle of a game and ruining it for everybody else, and a few games straight up don't allow it at all heavily punishing those who leave early. This is the standard
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It's not against rules to give up on the hook. So where do you get penalizing people?
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Except the games you listed are balanced games with casual AND ranked modes
dbd is too unbalanced and RNG dependent to be in any way competitive, it’s a party game through and through
suiciding on hook is perfectly valid
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So sit on the hook and struggle while my team does nothing 😂 yeah I would rather move on to the next match.
yeah I sign up to play not watch my team do nothing
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Or we could rework hook stages so that people have to wait there those 2 min to at least give a chance to their teammates to unhook them and earn some alturism BP/emblems. If they don't want to play that's fine, let them stay AFK which is bannable after repeated offences.
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Again, bringing the point back to improving the feature by making it more engaging and interactive not tossing it out completely as if there were never a point to it in the first place. There's a reason it's there and acting like it's pointless is just doing Dead By Daylight as a horror experience dirty and a big a disservice.
Common sense?
It's not necessarily against the rules, but it's heavily discouraged to disconnect (especially consistently) which everyone has universally agreed on by this point, and by killing yourself on the hook you are essentially avoiding the new punishments implemented to deter players from disconnecting from their matches. Why shouldn't you be punished for purposefully leaving your team out to dry??
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If everyone agreed, no one would do it. It's okay to let go.
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Lol no.
As annoying as it is when someone suicides, this is the wrong way to go. Why? Because it punishes the people who have legit reasons for doing it.
It's also not something that happens often enough that I think even needs that much work put into.
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Because sometimes something irl takes precedence over a stupid video game and you need to leave, that's why you're not permanently IP banned for life because you disconnected once, but over a sustained period of time of repeated offenses.
Ergo, it's not okay to let go.
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Those games have casual modes that are wildly unbalanced, and they still ban you for leaving them.
DotA has turbo and ######### modes, which are extremely ridiculous and completely unbalanced. You still get banned for leaving games.
LoL has similar modes like ARAM and AURF (when it is on) that have ridiculous balance issues that also ban you for leaving the game
CS:GO has a casual mode as well that is specifically designed to allow you to come and go as you please.
MMOs also allow you to do so if you play with your friends, but if you queue for a dungeon, you are expected to finish it.
This argument that DBD is a "party game" is idiotic. If that is the case everyone would play KYF, because after all, it's a party game right? Party games are games that have very very simple rules and mechanics. Games like Mario Party, Mario Kart, Splatoon. Those are party games, because you can learn the rules for the game in a about 30 seconds. DBD has far too many mechanics and perks and little things like how to optimally play and run specific tiles that makes it far less casual and party than you know. People wouldn't put thousands of hours into a party game.
Look what happened to smash bros. It started out as a "party game" but the community adopted it and created a competitive scene around it, so much so that later games (ignoring brawl) supported that idea much better.
The other key difference in these party games, is that leaving one before it finishes, doesn't ruin the game for everyone else. In Mario Party/Mario Kart, they have AI that can take over, and there are also 8 players in a game. It's also not a team based game. I'd argue that even splatoon should have some punishment system, because it is team-based.
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I'm sorry but you can't force me to stay in a match against Freddy. Is the only killer which i suicide at the first hook. He's so broken.
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If you have a legit reason to suicide you may as well DC.
If you have something that actually requires your immediate attention, you can and should DC, rather than taking the time to find the killer, get him to down you, wait for him to carry you to a hook and then for you to struggle multiple times before you die.
That is far more time consuming and less efficient than simply hitting "disconnect" which for an average player who isn't toxic, they won't get a penalty for disconnecting because they aren't repeat offenders.
So anybody who kills themselves on the hook hardly has a "legit reason" especially considering most of these guys are actually playing legit up until the point they get downed and hooked. They're vaulting windows, dropping pallets, running loops, using their exhaustion perks, they're actively trying to escape up until the point that they get caught.
That doesn't sound like "legit reason" to me, far from it. That's nothing more than a lame excuse
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You signed up for it when you queued up as a survivor to go against any of the killers released so far. If you don't like Freddy that much play KYF instead and establish your own rules there.
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DC'ing can get you banned. Suiciding on hook does not.
The entire reason for attempting to unhook yourself is also a part of of the game itself. Unless you aren't aware of the luck offerings that already exist in the game. Or the perk Slippery Meat that are in the game.
Sorry that you don't like the mechanic, but it is far better than what you are suggesting.
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So you're admitting people suicide consistently to actively avoid being punished? To avoid being banned? and not for "legit reasons"?
Hmmmmmm.... I wonder what that means when players use workarounds to avoid punishments from TOS..
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No. Read what I said. I am admitting that it is INTENDED, for reasons of how the game works (things in the game) and sometimes people who do it who have legit reasons (outside of the game).
They can't possibly punish everyone. I'd rather have someone suicide than someone go afk for instance. At least I KNOW, I don't have to waste my time going to try to save them or take a hit for them.
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No, i didnt signed anything, so i will keep doing it, till the devs do something about the suicides or a Freddy rework. Simple as that
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If you had a legit reason you would disconnect. If you can't disconnect for a legit reason because you've been disconnecting too often, that is your own. damn. fault.
You're right, they can't possibly punish everyone. But they can discourage those actions by implementing new mechanics that deter players from repeatedly killing themselves on the hook.
If you have a legit reason, then you won't mind whatever punishment BHVR decides to throw at you because you won't be playing anymore, you've got that "legit reason" in the real world to pay attention to. Unless... your reason isn't actually as legit as you say it is?
Much in the same way that if you did happen to get a five minute cooldown punishment for DC-ing for a "legit reason" it's not like you're going to be playing for the next five minutes anyway because your focus has been shifted to your "legit reason" so it won't matter.
For example, like going to the movies with friends "we're gonna miss the beginning if you don't get off right now!" "fine! I'll disconnect and we'll go" a five minute penalty does not impact you in the slightest because you're going to the theater to see an hour and a half or more long movie.
Yes you did actually. As soon as you booted up Dead By Daylight for the very first time from day 1 you agreed to the End-License User Agreement or EULA and Terms of Service from BHVR (that really long body of text that nobody reads)
Here's a link:
Here are two terms that you are technically violating when you suicide consistently and repeatedly to get out of matches early:
Quote:
"While participating in the Game, you also agree to comply with certain rules of conduct that govern your use of the Game (“Rules of Conduct”), for example you may not:
- Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing a BHVR Service or take actions that interfere with or materially increase the cost to provide a BHVR Service for the enjoyment of all its users.
- Exploit errors in design, features which are not documented, and/or bugs to gain access that would otherwise not be available or to obtain any competitive advantage."
The important parts to recognize to these Terms of Service are the beginning statements which as you can see are separate rules or codes of conduct to be followed separated from the rest of the statement because of the legal grammar being used created by a comma or an "and" & / or "or"
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I've had more times than I can count that survivors don't rescue me until right when I'm going into struggle but something happens (hit, they glitch, who knows) and I don't hit the button because I was expecting an unhook and instead die. I die during struggle all the time because even though I'm button mashing the game randomly doesn't read it and I die with plenty of time left to struggle. This happens WAY too often to punish survivors for it. Until they change the struggle mechanic to something like having option of "let go" where it isn't the game glitching and killing you there shouldn't be a penalty.
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Disconnecting is bannable. Suiciding on hook isn't bannable or against the rules.
Even if the person suiciding wants to do it for non-legit reasons, it could be them trying out their "luck" because as I've already mentioned there are things within the game that revolve solely on luck. Offerings, Perks, Attempting to unhook yourself.
Giving penalties to someone because they ended their match sooner is wrong. When we have people going afk (both survivors and killers), we have people who just want to meme or beg to farm, or we have people who want to sandbag and show a 'toxic' behavior rather than playing the game. Nobody wants to be in those matches, so unless you intend of punishing those people as well, suiciding on hook is fine.
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What are you talking about ? How many Freddy can i face in...3 hours? Maybe none and maybe max 2 or 3 per day. So that isnt that much to tell me i'm violating the rules. Call me noob or whatever you want but i already tried everything and i cant against freddy, he put "traps" on the floor, fake pallets ( those 2 without cd ), he can teleport, Even fake teleport, he put you basically all the time in the dream world because if you want to use the clock you have yo run to other side of the map...anyway sorry for change the subject.
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That sounds more like a you problem than anything else. Button mashing isn't something that you should be doing when struggling and you're far more liable to mess up struggling if that's what you're doing. The important part of struggling is to maintain a consistent rate of tapping the spacebar than anything else. As far as I'm concerned, the system itself works perfectly fine at reading when you're struggling and when you've f*cked up as long as you're doing it properly. If it didn't this would be a far more widely spread reported issue than it is.
On top of this, you should be prepared to struggle because there's a whole second or two of wind up where the entity rears back before it strikes you with its spider claws. Regardless of whether or not someone is nearby for a save, you should in that moment, be prepared to struggle by already hitting space bar.
So your solution is an easy one, maybe don't do those things? Stop button mashing, and actually struggle when you're supposed to regardless of who is close by, both of these are rookie mistakes that don't need players to be accommodated for.
Oh, since we're repeating ourselves, I'll just copy and paste what I said earlier:
"So you're admitting people suicide consistently to actively avoid being punished? To avoid being banned? and not for "legit reasons"?
Hmmmmmm.... I wonder what that means when players use workarounds to avoid punishments from TOS.."
Again, if you're not willing to DC because you could be banned that is your own fault for abusing the disconnect feature during your games and not budgeting your own time correctly and ruining the experience consistently for the others in your matches.
If you're doing it for luck you should still be equipped with more than enough time to struggle. As I've already previously noted, there is a brief window of time between when you're in first hook state and when you're in second state struggle phase. This is purposefully implemented to allow players more than enough time to properly react and begin struggling in time.
Ruining the entire match for four other players and prioritizing yourself over the normal pace of the game is wrong.
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The devs have said twice now that hook death rates didn't increase after the DC penalties were added.
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let me kill myself if I want to, I can't dc anymore, at least let me kill myself.
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nope.
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@Seiko300 Why would one DC when they could just let the killer kill them? I'm not understanding your logic. I'd rather leave a game without a ban so I can move on to the next game. Whether the reason is legit or not, it would be silly to take the ban lol. I mean, its as simple as that.
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If you don't DC on a frequent basis you won't get banned.
The logic doesn't get much more simple than that my guy.
It's there for a reason, it's there to be used, it's just not there to be abused that's the only difference.
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You are the one who keeps repeating yourself into believing suiciding on hook is a workaround TOS, when the devs have already said Suiciding on hook is not bannable. You wanna add a punishment because you, yourself don't like it.
I've been in many matches where people simply gave up. I escaped. Does that mean that I had a bad experience? No. I escaped and got my points. End of story.
Again, I would rather someone suicide because their favorite show came on tv, than to have to deal with an afk person or someone trying to sandbag. That's the last thing I'm going to say about it.
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god why we just ban everyone let this game die already.
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I don't think you understand what I am arguing here.... I'm kinda jumping in your argument above with the person who has Zarina as their pic.
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I don't get why people are so caught up in other people's business in this game. If someone doesn't enjoy their match. They don't have to stay. Let the person be and have them suicide on hook.
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This is for the most part a new conversation, the devs have never officially commented on this in the past at least to my knowledge.
I want to add a punishment because I'm seeing a lot of people creating threads and comments complaining about it, but without the constructive rhetoric to suggest a solution to the issue. Which is what I created this thread for.
You're personal anecdotes aren't sufficient evidence to represent the entire community, and I can just link to you a thread of people who have many many more anecdotes of being screwed over by people who decided to suicide rather than see the match through.
If their favorite show was about to come on, and needed to rush to their tv right away in that moment, it would be far more efficient to disconnect immediately and turn their PC off right away rather than look around or wait for the killer to find them and hook them so they could kill themselves.
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I don't think this is the right way to punish players who do it. If you punish hook suicides people will just alt tab and afk
I would suggest rewarding then if they choose to stay
Something like a desperation bonus
+10% bonus bp if you've been hooked and +20% bonus if you're on deathhook
Survivors need more bloodpoints anyway
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Then... could you explain?
This is also a fine and acceptable solution, though I fear the incentive wouldn't be enough for some people. For those individuals harsher penalties are necessary to get the message across to stop pulling this kind of bullsh*t
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I'm on console, you need to hit the button quickly otherwise it doesn't matter if it's consistent it will kill you. Unnecessarily tapping the button is just going to wear it out causing a new controller to be bought - people complain about the current method already causing this why speed up process? Glitches do happen fairly often, I've seen others complain on Facebook and Twitter about it as well as it happen in streams. Whether it's a glitch or someone making a mistake doesn't change people should not be penalized for it. Change the mechanic first - like a simple "stop struggle" - then penalties can be considered. It's not all on purpose. They didn't immediately put in DC penalties, they first changed to dedicated servers.
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You said "if you have a legit reason to suicide, you may as well DC," therefore my comment
I didnt read the part about> you only get banned if you abuse it... That is not even true because I got banned everytime I got kicked out of the game randomly... that includes the first time too.
I've only DC'd twice my whole DBD experience. That was before they brought on the penalty
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Ah, my bad, well in that case I can't empathize at all.
That being said that's much more a problem of "fix how struggling works" than "don't punish people who kill themselves early". They aren't mutually exclusive changes, you could fix how struggling works on console and still punish people who decide to suicide early.
And like I said before, it's all about improving the struggle mechanic as a whole, to make it more interactive and engaging, especially as opposed to removing it completely.
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If you got banned after disconnecting one time you should be sending a support ticket in because that's a bug or glitch and that should not be happening.
I've had to disconnect (I assume) multiple times in the past because my computer overheated and I get a blue screen after sustained intensive use of a couple of hours, but this happens rarely to me maybe once a month or every two months if not longer. The only way to solve it that I know of is to shut down my computer completely and restart it, and this can happen right in the middle of the game so I'm assuming when I do this I'm disconnecting from the match because all programs are being shut down and ended.
My point being, when this happens to me I get right back into DBD and I'm none the worse for wear, because I DC so infrequently (and only ever for IRL reasons or computer mishaps, never for in-game reasons) I've never gotten a ban.
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should just removing it completely it pointless.
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This. Make struggling an automatic thing, and remove any option to give up. If you want to disconnect, then disconnect and take the penalty. If your teammates are being idiots, you won't have to wait that long for your game to end, and you might be surprised at the kinds of situations that can be salvaged.
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You can't force people to stay in your game. It's a game, they play it for fun.
What makes your fun more important than anyone elses?
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Because when you queued up, you signed up to play again. I bring you back to my original point, name a single other multiplayer game with teams that doesn't punish you for ruining the game for your teammates.
Why is one person's fun more important than 4 other people's fun?
If you don't find the game fun, don't play. If you don't like how your teammates are playing, play with your friends. if you don't like the perks the killers are using, play with your friends. Those modes exist to allow you to play the game however you want.
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