Devs losing touch with community
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<3
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Instant rebooks should not be nerfed. If a survivor rescues another survivor in a situation where it's easy to down one or the other, that is absolutely the rescuers fault, the killer should not suffer a penalty because the survivor made a really dumb decision.
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Already did it, survivors abused it with 2 ppl just outside killers range so the killer would hook someone. See two people. If he chased one the hooked.person got freed, if he didnt the hooked person would take forever to die.
Survivors encouraged the tunneling and camping meta and dont wanna deal with the consequences of it.
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What would you suggest the devs do about this then? There's nothing they can do that keeps it fair for the killer. 2 - 3 survivors keep going to save the hooked survivor? Too bad, camping isn't allowed and you have to let them save the survivor? If you're going to cry about a "problem" offer advice to fix it. Not that it's a problem in the first place, considering it's very easy to counter just by repairing.
If it was a strategy that works way too well and carried you to rank 1 then id get doing something about it, but that's just not the case. Instead those people lose out more than they win. The only time they win is when dumb survivors reward them for the behavior by not letting the survivor go.
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Honestly I already found away they can fix it add a new mode that's what they need add a mode called like 3 death game mode the killer can mori 3 times in the game after first down you die you wait 1 min and respawn till all 3 lives are gone from the survivor no bleed out time either so he cant camp while downed boom problem solved benefits killer by always having a mori faster then being hooked and help ls survivors from being camped problem solved but the dev's dont know what a new game mode is so idk what tf they are doing.
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The people who suggested that the sacrifice speed be slowed when the killer was near the hook thought they had all the answers, too. Turned out they didn't.
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Remove the effect if the killers in a chase? That way if survivors are wasting time around the hook trying to pull killer away only 1 is probably doing gens
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They could do something like that, just negate the reduction in sacrifice speed if another survivor also happens to be nearby.
The biggest issue with all of this, when playing as a survivor, is how long it takes to get into a match. Nobody likes to wait for an extended period of time just for camping and tunneling. A killer with real skill won't have to do either.
Win or lose, I just want a healthy match for the 30+ minutes of waiting I just did to get into said match.
As a killer, it's far more entertaining to just harass and scare the ever loving ######### out of survivors. Go for kills, but prioritize keeping pressure on the map. With smaller map sizes it's never been easier to patrol gens and keep the pressure on everyone. Hell, there are even more deadzones now. Even if a few escape (which is still not as often as I would expect) I still, most of the time, get at least a brutal killer rating (or better) and plenty of bloodpoints to boot (35k or more).
To feel the need to deliberately ruin someone else's day must be a telltale sign that one must actually feel quite small and pathetic IRL.
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This is exactly what I do and more survivors should do the same. If the killer is face camping just rush all the gens and escape.
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That image imo is false, they don't just wait there they commit suicide simple as that.
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I guess I didnt try to act like I know everything either way I think it would be good solving it or not I just want a new game mode I cant play the game anymore it's the same ######### every game get old real fast especially if you have better games to play
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How could the survivors abuse that? It's a mechanic that would litterally be in the killer's hands whether it's in play or not. Also when did they try that? I don't remember seeing something like that being tested ever.
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"take hostage
1. To hold someone captive and threaten violence to them in order to prevent another party (e.g. the police) from using force or in order to create leverage so that another party will agree to meet some demand.
2. To assume constraining, limiting control over something in order create leverage to achieve something."
This is litterally the very first thing that pops up when you search the term "take hostage" and it fits perfectly to the situation
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You preetty much described a hostage situation in your last point. I agree with you on most of what you said but that last point is just nonsense and so is the fact that it's impossible to name a way to fix it without it being exploitable, it's a game... the devs decide what they can and can't do, what we can and can't do to stop this
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You can safe unhook on that situation, it's just harder to pull off because it depends on how the killer reacts to the attempt, the basics of it is you need 2 people for the save, 1 to get the killer's attention and the other to unhook, the aproach depends on how the killer reacts to the survivor that would take the risk of distracting him, if the killer is smart about it, it would require more risk, but if the killer is more aggresive on trying to keep others away then all it takes is someone to make him swing at them so the other gets the chance
When it comes to borrowed time (which is a really good perk in this situation) it doesn't matter who the killer is, it just takes a little bit of finnesse to use it against those that can nullify it, for exaple the wraith and other stealth killers, you have to bait them into exiting their respective ability or in the case of ghost face you just need anyone to take him out of his shroud
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Actually survivors are entitled to 2 extra chances, that is the point of having to hook them 3 times to kill, it's just different when they reach a new phase in the hook system, like if you were hooked but weren't saved before you reach the second phase then it cost you 1 aditional chance. Also no matter how carful you are, you will always have a run in with the killer at some point and the killer does have the power to down you, so it's just a matter of how good are you at loosing him
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It's not about the survivors always being sucsessful in this situation it's about making the killer choose between risking the chance at killing the others just to kill 1 or hunt the others, risking the kill he could have.
Also even though it is mostly the survivor's fault he was hooked, it isn't his fault to die if he was camped, the survivor doesnt get to decide if he isn't rescued that is mostly in the hands of the killer in this situation since he would be the one stopping the others from saving him
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Agreed.
But at least with this tool tip killers can no longer claim "face camping" is a term made up by survivors, located only in the "survivor handbook". 🤷
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you can't just pick and choose what makes your point best, you have to look at all scenarios. but, for the sake of explaining why you're wrong about it not being a good idea, let's discuss both and a third one as well.
To start, No survivors (actual camping)
in this scenario it works fine, nobody is nearby so it's not possible to be abused. but, once someone approaches or if it's scenario 2, then we have an issue.
Scenario 2: survivors are (supposedly) nearby
now I say supposedly as sometimes your BBQ doesn't show all available auras, which means either someone has an aura disrupting perk, they found a locker, or they are near the hook, so staying to check for others is justifiable in that situation, but still costs time.
anyway, if the killer finds someone and they get into a chase, it is in the survivors favor to stay near the hook, as this will give the others more time to get to them and unhook, so the major exploit has been found. on top of that, even leaving the area puts him near the hook for a couple seconds, which wastes a bit of time in a game where every second is important. not an exploit but a problem nonetheless. now then, we've seen the exploit, but it's time for another glaring flaw.
Scenario 3: the 3-gen
this scenario imagines the killer having hooked a survivor near the finale 3 gens because the survivors three genned themselves.
Hooking a survivor near a three gen is the best thing you could do in the scenario. it allows you to quickly attack unhookers while defending gens, and leaves you with no real reason to leave the area. of course, staying near the area and defending the gens means being near the hooked survivor. this would mean the killer gets punished for doing his job effectively, and helps the survivors because they messed up and three genned themselves.
in conclusion, the idea is good on paper, but in practice it's exploitable and flawed in ways that punishes the killer for doing their job.
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The killer is making that choice by camping. That's literally its main drawback, that the killer might be forced to let every other survivor go because they're focused on one kill. The problem is that other survivors feel entitled to the unhook, so instead of using the two minutes of free reign on the map wisely, they instead decide to crouch around the hook and waste that time.
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Killers are faster than survivors for a reason, and if they aren't then they have the means to stop them, I mean no survivor can just run in circles around the hook and not be downed, also it doesn't make the one that is on hook invincible because it's not stopping the progression its just adding more time to the progress which wouldn't be much either way, it takes about a minute and a half (if i'm not mistaken for the hook to progress completely through all phases so adding 90% would just add about a minute more, and that is if the killer stays within the radious of the hook there would still be a lot of ways around it though, like watching it from further away or patrolling around it or checking on it every once in a while
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Then that 1 or 2 survivors would just be waisting as much time as the killer making it harder on themselves because the killer would already know where they are and once he doesn't have to camp anymore, it wouldn't take him as long to get another survivor on hook
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I always see the 'just do the gens' argument. Since when were survivors able to do all the generators in the time that one person dies on first hook? Maybe with two-three gens left, but no one takes into account having to actually locate/get to the gens first and the time that takes. You wouldn't believe the amount of killers that act like having 3 gens left is the end of the game.
Odds are if they don't get saved they'll struggle for that 4% just to get redowned off the hook, ultimately giving them more points because they want to play too, not play lobby simulator for thirty minutes just to sit on a hook for two, which only decreases the amount of time the other survivors have to do the gens.
9/10 Games where the killer face camps a person on their first hook to death they still get 2-3 kills (even when the victim is left to die because it's not like they're on the hook for 6-10m) and somehow 18-20k+BP while the survivors get nothing for healing, altruism or chase resulting in 10kBP at best and less because there's no interaction.
Point is they'll always camp for their own reasons, but especially so if they're getting rewarded about the same as if they had not face camped someone. Less effort, about the same outcome or better if people are stupidly altruistic. Bottom line is no one is saying you can't play that way, but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.
It's still a ######### outcome but I feel as though people may be a little less worried about this scenario if finding a match didn't take so long.
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120 seconds to die on the hook. Assuming a survivor is caught and hooked in 60 seconds, that's 180 seconds. Gens take 80 seconds to complete and survivors always spawn directly next to one (travel time is essentially zero), so by the time the survivor has been on the hook for 20 seconds, three generators should have been repaired.
You then have 90 seconds to repair two more generators and open a gate, assuming it takes 10 seconds to reach the next gen (it doesn't, it's a gross overestimation). Gates take 20 seconds to open, true, but with three survivors and two generators, one of those generators is going to be repaired in around 50 seconds, with two survivors working on it. The last one will be done very quickly as well, with three survivors working on it, and you'll have plenty of time to open the gate and GTFO before the hooked survivor dies.
Now, you're probably thinking this requires too much coordination, right? The good news is that the devs have you covered.
- Kindred
- Better Together
- Detective's Hunch
Those perks will allow you to have increased coordination, even if you're playing solo survivor. You can also bring a map if you want, that will help as well.
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Devs have been fixing infinite loops and the truth is that loops are still not perfect because of the sudden boosts in speed killers get when chasing survivors for extended times, and those two things are being acomplished because killers have been voicing their problems in the game so saying a survivor cant do the same is just selfish and biased
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Or if a survivor decides to loop near a hooked survivor to give their team almost double the time to do gens. Like as a killer if I knew someone was there I wouldn't leave. That's abuseable.
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First of all I'm not a kid, but then again you wouldn't believe me anyway so why bother with someone that starts off a comeback with a comment like that
Second of all taking hostage isn't a maleable term there are two cases in dbd where the term fits camping and slugging the second to last survivor just so the killer can get an unchallenged 4k, which is taking the game hostage which is also punishable because in both cases you are depriving the survivors of any chance. I can simpathize with camping, tunneling and slugging on very specific circumstances but the reality of the situation is that in most cases the killer just uses those tactics to get easy kills, which again I can simpathize with on very specific circumstances, like camping/slugging a survivor if you haven't killed anyone and the gates were powered. I'm not against any of those tactics I'm against people abusing those tactics just to get easy kills
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I completely agree with you on this but what I meant was that there is nothing on play that forces the killer to make the choice they just decide based on their style of play, if the killer likes easy kills they camp if the don't or don't care enough to want easy kills they don't. What I meant with my previous comment is that if there was something that forced them to choose between them like say survivors being next to hook then they should at least be forced to think about their aproach to it not just camp for no reason. If they camp then I want it to be for a tactical reason rather than just camp to satisfy their style
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There is nothing wrong with them giving you a tip on how to deal with a situation, especially when most times there is some way around it. And this doeant make them out of touch with their comunity if anything they would be more because of it because they know about the situation and are trying to help you through it also the term facecamping is another factor that solidifies this, since that is a term that the comunity invented
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Sometimes, actually alot of times you get survivors going for the instant saves and then what? Are you supposed to just play dumb and pretend they aren't right there. I think I get screwed by survivors pulling me off the hook too fast and hanging me out to dry as camping killers. I also find it helps to maybe first pop a gen to punish killer, then find a teammate to go for a tandem save to further punish them. The game doesn't need to be changed. You just have to play differently imo. I'm not even super good either.
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But the mechanic can be improved to prevent that, let's say the penalty stops whenever the killer enters a chase or another survivor is also in the hook proximity
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You are drunk mate, right?
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first, no one is gonna know if the killer is camping or not. If survivors see the hooked one doesn't get saved, they will go try to save, and that's time wasted running towards the hook. Since no one knows if it's a camper or not, all 3 survivors WILL go check on the hook. By the time they realize it's a camper, its already too much time wasted. Camper usually gets rewarded for 2k-4k cuz survivors don't have enough info to know if its a camper. You don't get the full 2 min for all 3 survivors on gens, cuz there's walking time, finding gens time, checking on the hook time, realizing camper time. The camper is guaranteed with 2k unless it's a sweaty swf, and sadly those are unicorns, you are lucky if you can find one of those match in 100. And if there's still 2 gens left and only 2 survivors alive, they have no chance escaping, period. Results in 4k for camper, ultimate reward for no brain play.
Also for the fix he suggested, it can be simply improved upon. Think about how to prevent abuse instead of instantly shutting down a valid solution. The hook penalty can simply pause whenever the killer enters a chase or when another survivor is in the proximity of the hook. There, fixed, no abuse, but penalize camping at the same time.
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Also killers can't instadown a survivor at the start of the game, so survivors HAVE time to find gens.
Every time when a killer come out a facecamp better then the surviros (and there is no huge skill gape between them), then they desperatly wanted to save them. Don't do it. Do gens. Period. In worst scenario he can kill 2 survivors.
If you think killers can win games only cause this, then you maybe really forget that the survirvos are the prey for the Entity, and shouldn't be stronger then the Killer. Or the whole point of the game is gone.
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And how that would prevent abusing that, and have the hooked still unfunny time and penelty when somebody deicide to crouch near him to prevent the slowing of the timer? Or we should add another factor that if a survivor is near a hooked one too much time he got kicked in the ass by police or something? When this will stops?
Devs said that is a valid tactic, and go do gens to counter it. Accept it, or play something else - seriously...
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Between the infinite looping and sfw with voice though, survivors have much more advantages. When people are calling for changes on survivors it's for genuinely broken things. Other than the called for nurse changes and some perk changes on killer, there isn't a whole lot that's broken. Camping isn't a feature of the game, it's a playstyle. Are you going to just tell players to not play a certain way or get banned? That would be nothing less than idiotic. I'm all for voicing concerns on the game, but if that concern is something like camping, a strategy that by all accounts doesn't work unless the survivors let it work then I don't think it has any business being brought up. If the person brought it up and added some genuine advice that would help fix the problem, that's different. But as far as I can tell there's no way to fix something like this. Why? Because it's not broken. It's a strategy that causes the killers to lose more often than not.
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there's simply not enough time for one hook to repair everything by the time all 3 survivors checked and realized it's a camper. If a survivor realizes camping, they should just go do gens instead of crouching around the hook, and the penalty should give them enough time to repair and escape. As it's right now, the camper is guaranteed of 2k, and 4k most of the time cuz survivors don't have enough info to know it's a camper and need to gen rush. And, it's doesn't stop there, if you think there's flaws in the mechanic, why don't you come up with ideas to fix the flaws instead of bashing on it and willing for the problem to stay?
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This is always a circle of an arguement with each side having their own complaint...some killers will always camp...some survivors will always gen rush....im telling you if matchmaking times were faster...people wouldnt complain as much...good day
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We need more game modes. That's the only way to fix this. Imagine the possibilities! There could be a game mode with no hooks. There could be a game mode for rank 1 players only. There could be a game mode that prevents face camping. The possibilities are endless, and it would freshen up the game!
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Thing is with this you're assuming a hell of a lot and the attitude is not helping your case (and don't act like you don't have one with the snarky 'but the devs made these' comment).
It's one thing to have a scenario, it's an entirely different and disingenuous thing to map out a theoretical game to the very second and base that as fact for your narrative that every game works that way when you know it doesn't. This is equivalent to telling killers to just 'run the perfect build at all times' to any and all scenarios. That isn't an answer. The survivors nor the killers should be tasked with having to balance the game for the devs. Hell, that's what one of Cheryl's perks is. The only direct counter to Pop. Have a problem? Just make a perk for it. That's how they fix things.
At the end of the day all you're doing here is protecting a #########, lazy and effortless play style and before people go 'but the devs allow it'; if the devs wanted people to play like this and solely like this they wouldn't have implemented a penalty for being near a hooked survivor point blank period, no matter how meager it is.
God forbid someone actually wants to play the game. At least when you play killer there's no impending threat of the survivors taking you out of the game so early you get not only no points but have no fun whatsoever and get to go back to a horrendous que. Even if you have a crap fest of a game, you still only que for a minute or two before finding a new match as killer.
Spawn camping in some games is allowed, doesn't make it right. People are still gonna do it, it sucks and there's nothing you can do about it but move on because there will never be a fix. People are gonna be #########, that only reflects on them. 🤷♀️
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Killers can't insta down? Let's see.
Billy. Leatherface. Ghostface. Huntress if she's good with hatchets or has iri heads. Clown with pinky finger. etc.
Y'all grossly underestimate how quickly you can go down no matter how skilled you are.
I'm not asking for survivors to be more powerful than the killer. Nobody in their right mind is. Don't think it's unreasonable to be asking that people be reasonable and not face camp someone to death on their first hook with no gens done shortly into the match. Can't believe that's too much to ask. 🤷♀️
I spawned once and got exposed by a Ghostface literally two seconds after taking my first step. This isn't a common occurrence, but I was flabbergasted. He must have spawned looking directly at me before I could even look around. He had exposed me and was close enough to get a hit not even 10 seconds into the match starting. Not only did I spawn within view of him, I spawned in a dead zone on the map. He then proceeds to face camp me in the basement to death. I waited an hour to get into that match. Fun and balanced, right? But nah, let's keep defending this behavior. 🙄
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I really agree with u man like seriously why couldn't they fix the rankings when the 4.0.0 update came out and also what's next a tip to not flashlight save a survivor and only use it during a chase lol
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i complete agree with you I'm just sad that not a lot of people see the problem with this and just shrug it off. i ever wrote my own opinion and thought of how to count this, but people just said to do gen and let them die which is a pathetic and selfish response.
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Run camaraderie if you are upset about face camping instead of all using sprint burst, self care and dead hard. Face camping is a baiting tactic which works, as survivors would rather taunt a face camping killer instead of doing gens.
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This IS pretty stupid. There might be a problem with your game, guys, if you are issuing a collective shrug at the idea that it's fine and even desirable for everyone to play around one person getting their game experience completely trampled on. And it's for no other reason than that the killer thinks it's funny, and decides it's OK to do it even though it flies in the face of the intended game flow and reward structure.
Your game might have a problem here, Behaviour. I know it's competitive and adversarial, and that's cool, but we also all know this strays really far from how a match is supposed to play out. You're legitimizing it instead of addressing it, which seems to me that it means you're either out of ideas, or you just don't care. Neither of these endpoints is acceptable.
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Indeed, survivors cannot force the killer to play in a certain way. Like I said, that's par for the course when you choose to play survivor. The killer is the one who can force you to do something differently.
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Kindred takes care of the "checking" problem.
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Imagine if there were some mechanic in Overwatch to make it so that one player just doesn't ever respawn. The person applying this mechanic doesn't get XP for the match -- but they don't care about this at all, and they do it anyway. Why would Overwatch's keep that mechanic in the game? Why would they ever introduce that mechanic and then defend it as a plus?
There needs to be more of a deterrent to keep killers from doing this. Ideally, there needs to be a reason why killers would actively want survivors to be rescued so that they can be hooked three times. The fact that Behaviour can't figure this out is a big part of what drives new players away, and what pushes the game into this narrow meta that everyone constantly bitches about here, and what fuels all this political-party-esque toxicity between "killer mains" and "survivor mains." God damn, deal with it. This is your game. Get your house in order.
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I've been camped more than enough to know that only doesn't work if survivors try to unhook. I was once camped in a basement by an Insidious Bubba while using Kindred. Everyone saw him there, so they rushed gens. I hadn't reached halfway on the sacrifice progress by the time there were only 2 gens left. You know what happened then? They completely dropped the ball and two of them stopped working on generators just to come and "rescue" me. The killer ended up with a 3k.
Survivors are primarily responsible for camping being as big of an issue as it is. If they stopped rewarding it, it would stop being a problem. However, despite them having created the problem and having the key to solve it, they want the devs to punish the killer for playing in a way that they (survivors) make worthwhile.
If you think my scenario is unreasonable despite all those coordination perks, then point out the ways in which it's unrealistic. Make a more realistic scenario, still taking into account all the facts (survivors spawn directly next to generators) and the premise (that survivors are using all those coordination perks and the killer camps every survivor to death).
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Here's the thing: there have been many, many mechanics proposed over the years to reward killers for not camping. From having hooked survivors suffer an interaction penalty, to speeding up the sacrifice process depending on the killer's distance to the hook. I myself have proposed mechanics to stop unsafe unhooks with a redefinition of what it means to unhook unsafely (unsafe unhooks being of the main reasons why camping works and a big problem when playing survivor).
Every time, without fail, these suggestions were met with massive derision and opposition. Why? Because nobody actually gives a #########. They want the killer to be punished, so the killer should be punished, just like they want to unhook, so they should be able to unhook.
I was even one of the supporters of the "have the sacrifice speed slowed down if the killer is near the hook" idea, thinking (naïvely) that there was no way survivors would abuse this and that they'd rush gens. The PTB sure showed me - survivors would rather troll the killer by forcing them into a lose-lose situation than just win the game outright. Then it hit me: no solution that depends on punishing the killer will work, because the killer is not the problem, the survivors are.
You can argue with my conclusion as much as you want, but it's drawn from a very real example of survivors getting exactly what they asked for and abusing it to the detriment of the killer and the game as a whole and supported by four years of playing this game. You think it's not fun to hang on the hook for two minutes? Give it a try when it's four or even twenty (like the OP was suggesting with the 90% slowdown), all because your teammates won't win the game since they prefer trolling the killer.
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