Pyramid Head needs an absolutely huge change.
Let me preface this by saying I am a killer main. I don't often play survivor, so maybe my view on things for survivors isn't great. However, there's a blatant issue with Pyramid Head. Why don't BT, DS, Pop, etc. work with cages, but moris do? The logic behind being unable to use DS and BT with cages is that they are HOOK perks. Okay, whatever. It's really yikes that this killer literally encourages tunneling, but that's just the game for you. If you can't use your hook perks out of the cage, you shouldn't be able to mori out of the cage.
Moris specifically say (we'll go with an ivory for simplicity) "Grants the ability to kill one Survivor who has been hooked by your hand during the next Trial."
Well, if the cages don't count as hooks for the perks, why should they count as hooks for moris? For that matter, if cages don't count as hooks, why can you hook someone and cage them, for the same 3 states?
For real, man. Pyramid Head is so bad for the game right now. The pure, unadulterated tunneling right now is absurd. Sure, sending a survivor to the cage puts them on the other side of the map, but you can still see the cage, so what's stopping you from going after the survivor again, when they're injured, pretty much completely defenseless and fresh out of the cage? You can't really avoid the trails of torment in chases without nearly guaranteeing giving the killer a hit or a down. You may be able to urban evade through it but in my opinion, there should not be a single killer that makes you put on a perk on the off chance you get them.
BHVR, you say you want the game to be fun for everyone, and from a killers perspective, this absolutely does not seem fun for survivors at all. The tunneling is absolutely rampant right now, and its making half your playerbase want to quit. God knows first 3 games as survivor I played, I got tunneled all 3, and don't want to play survivor at all right now.
Seriously man, I don't understand why BHVR added a killer who literally does something the community has been bothered by for literal years and it needs to be changed. If tunneling has irked the community for years, why make it so easy for PH? He can pick survivors up, just like every other killer. He shouldn't be any sort of special about it. I understand it's supposed to be a cool new mechanic, but in reality, it's making people genuinely not want to play. There is no sort of fun in being tunneled, and it should not be encouraged like this.
Feel free to tell me I'm just whining if you must, but after seeing it from the killers perspective and the survivors, I really do not see where this is good for the game at all.
Comments
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Yup that's true i think only 2 PH played right with him the rest of my matchs were all PH tunnelers most of the time they put the survivors on the cage and cross the map and camp the cage or tunnel one of them was using insidius to camp '-'.
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BHVR will do an easy fix. PH can't see cage auras anymore. Boom.
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The only change needed is make it so mori is not activated from being put in cages. Everything else is fine. I don't want to give anyone too many secrets but there is a very easy way to completely nullify cages and death blow and make him hook you.
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no tell us the secret
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Let me guess: dont step on the trail at all cost, even let yourself go down everything to not go down while tormented.
Cages are when used right very situational. I am myself not paying too much time placing trails down, I only care that the survivors are tormented so I can use cages on the right circumstances or for the mini mori. It is really hard to make survivors tormented in not indoor maps so it is better to focus on hooking survivors so you can use pop and BBQ.
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I love how people insist that PH encourages tunelling - the killer literally has to go out of their way to tunnel someone, more so than any other killer. You get shoved to the furthest point away, potentially even into an area filled with pallets. Just because someone has no second-chance perks doesn't mean that are an easy target, it just means they have to actually run away from the killer, not towards them. And that's without mentioning the near-instant saves or the fact that the cages are a snowball tool, not a general use hooking mechanism.
And here's a hint: if you want to constantly state that you are a killer main, maybe mention some of his problems on the killer side of things, instead of a giant rant about people playing in such a way that they should literally be throwing the match because they waste so much time that could have been spent actually pressuring the generators with real hooks. Because guess what: it's far easier and more profitable to tunnel someone as Huntress, Nurse or Spirit.
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Moris work with cages because it counts as a hook STATE.
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That would fix the issue but I fear cages are only good for avoiding DS. After awhile I stopped caging people because I want my bbq stacks and pgtw. Right now the cages feel like they are good for avoiding ds and quickly caging someone so you can continue hunting.
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If you want meta perks to work with cages then the cage should spawn near Pyramid Head, instead of across the map (fix the body blocking issue too). That also means killer hook perks will work to such as BBQ, pop, myc, etc.
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I don't really see an issue with him seeing cages as it's on the opposite side of the map.
That said, we can take away him seeing the cage auras in exchange for having his Rites of Judgement apply Torment on hit and reduce his recovery time after using it by 1 second. Deal?
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Can i just point out that i'm not biased. I will tunnel you regardless what killer i play! :)
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100% Agree, PH tunnel "tactic" is such a time waster, you can have way better results with facecamping bubba.
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Deal
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Why not just stay away from a PH cage-tunneling since in order to avoid the meta survivor perks he's got to give up the meta killer perks? That way you'll be more likely to be in a good spot for a cage rescue and he won't be popping the generators you'll be doing.
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This is probably THE best post on this forum on why he is so broken. I agree with you 200%.
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Probably because it seems like moris don't actually interact with the hook itself, instead it simply checks if the survivor still has all their hook states. If not, allow mori.
Whether or not this is intended behavior is an entirely different discussion though. It doesn't feel like it as the devs have been very clear that cages shouldn't be viewed as hooks in any way beyond them taking away (at least) one hook state, with all the perks not working with them and all.
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But you act like going out of your way to tunnel is so difficult when it’s really not. What he’s trying to say is that the sad part about his kit is how broken the cages are and how they indeed allow him to tunnel. Sure he has a ranged attack that can hit through pallets and walls with a Small 5 second cool down if you miss but that’s really not the point here.
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I have played against PH around 15-20 times and every single time i was far from PH when he caged someone (if he even got the chanse to cage someone since avoiding the trail is pretty easy) the cage spawned somewhat close to me or another survivor making it impossible to the killer to tunnel the survivor effectively,
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Nope he is saying that going out of your way with PH is a waste of time since yo take twice as long to start the tunnel process, also we know that tunnel is not really an effective strategy against decent survivors since they can easily genrush you, so by the time you start tunneling with PH all the gens against a good time will probably be done already.
And also also he needs to down you first and he can easily be looped and you have to be tormented sooooo yeah i dont see really how you can tunnel effectively with him, just go with facecamping bubba.
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"You act like if you are a dev and this is going to happen. kekw"
No, I'm not. I literally just offered a balance change for the devs to see when they scroll through the page. Relax.
"Do you really think that is a deal? hell no, that's not a fair deal it's like saying.
"Let's nerf mori, iri head and spirit, but let's nerf too keys""
And what's wrong with this saying? Mori's, Iri Heads and keys do all need reworks.
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Personally I'd say that he shouldn't be able to see cage aura and torment she be removed when hooked.
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"Thing is 3 things for 1 only thing?
Is that fair!?"
We make changes by the quality of those changes not the literal number count of you got 3 and I got 1.
Certain things need more changes than others.
"And you know kekw means being sarcastic, right?"
I know what kekw means, it just isn't accurate use for this conversation.
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I need to try him in red ranks, but I have an inkling PH is fine.
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Hooking is better than caging. I only cage someone if I think they might have DS or to be quick and chase a nearby survivor. I think this is the most efficient way to play because you can still use Pop, Devour, and BBQ. Repeatedly running across the map is not optimal, and being tormented doesn't completely counter DS because of lockers. However, it's best if the survivor rescuing does so with borrowed time.
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I don't tunnel with him at all. Sometimes I destroy with him,sometimes I lose pretty bad. Maybe they thought people were better than that. I dunno. The killer can see the hook though,right? I don't see how it's really all that different. I don't disagree that the perks should work though. I think that makes more sense than the killer not being able to see where the person is. Then people would probably just step in the stuff on purpose and hope you cage them. Then they are as far away from you as possible and go right back to blending in with the scenery lmao. (I've seen a lot more people trying to get away with that lately) I also don't think people are always trying to be malicious. You can be rank 1 and go against a low rank killer that just might not know ant better. Plus,there are people that do have a legitimate hard time finding the survivors when they aren't on gens. I saw someone running 3 "this is where the survivors are" perks yesterday. Well,now they know where you are lol.
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Yeah that's been my experience playing as him. Depending on the map I really have to think about if I want to cage them or not. A lot of the time they are only in it for two seconds.
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Yeap it kind suck sometimes, thats why you need to be strategic about the cages.
In one ocassion i was on a gen with another survivor and the cage spawned just next to us. You can imagine what happened to that poor gen :(
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The cages intentionally spawn as far away as possible from him. He doesn't encourage tunneling. If anything it usually hurts him, if the survivors are above rank 12. And his mini mori is fair to me considering not only does the survivor need to be caged before (which you need to be situational with, otherwise you compromise map control and give survivors a free save), they need to be currently Tormented, AND on death hook. So they were already dead anyways, just cuts the middle man of carrying them to a hook. And it's an awesome reward for playing a killer well. A 1st hook Ivory mori is faaaar worse than going against this.
If his Final Judgement were 1st hook, THEN I'd say it's strong.
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You don't understand: it's like playing Basement Bubba.
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Killer is effective! THIS IS CLEARLY A HUGE ISSUE!
much waow
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If all four of those things need to be re-balanced, then all four of those things need to be re-balanced.
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Well same about gen rushing... Deaf ear. But tunneling can be easly countered either jump in locker or let him down you intentionaly so that you can use ds or keep geting into tormented state.
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This a good idead
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Totaly agree, when i play ph i usualy use him to kill him/her faster. Cages i don't even used it from 10 times i paly mb i use it like 1 time if i see they are too close to me. And if you miss range attack you get decent stun so high rank survs easly can esc and use that time. But i guess low ranks don't wan't to addapt like for doctor or spirit. But they forgot to cry on spirit....
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All of my Pyramid Head games:
Tormented
Hooked
Tunneled
Caged
Tunneled
Morid
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Honestly they should just remove the aura of the cage. Still be a strong ability but not a tunnel them through all three hooks instead just 2. Dunno how everyone let's themselves be tormented so easy though. I've only ever been tormented once so far by Pyramid Head.
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I actually kinda like that, but I think it should show the aura after 10 secs or so, so information isn't completely stripped away.
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I think there's no reason to show the cage aura at all, because it only promotes tunneling.
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with each new map and killer the fun is reduced, they try to make people afraid of the killer and that is impossible, that is the direction they have been taking for 2 years and they are not going to get it
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If hook perks end up working on cages he will need a significant upgrade to compensate for it
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you don't get tokens for the perk We're Gonna Live Forever and it doesn't reset exhausted either, that's too bad and needs a fix
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Killers don't want it to be fun for survivors that's the whole point. We want survivors to be dragged through pain regularly. I wish all killers were as good as pyramid head. We as killers aren't there to give survivors fun we are there for one job and one job only to kill them. Not make friends.
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It is a non-competitive game, without fun there is no sense
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It's highly competitive when survivors hen rush the hell outta ya, loop the hell outta you and teabag you. How is that fun for killers.
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Genrush I meant
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"From a killer's perspective, this does not seem fun for survivors at all."
The what?! From a killer's perspective, the fun of survivors is secondary to your own. Fixed it for you. You can choose NOT to tunnel and still do good with PH. Let survs do their own complaining as they don't need a white knight. Tunneling isn't cheating and it isn't camping.
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He's fine in red ranks. If you want to pip, you have to choose if you need to hook or cage. The best strategy I've seen on these forums is to hook first.
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her little mori is unnecessary I think it should be an addon in my opinion... :7
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Not true, 10 seconds gives survivors a massive head start and knowing their cage location is valuable information and shouldn't be stripped away.
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the unpunished feathering of his power too is so bogus. im tired of being forced into lose-lose situations and picking the one that is less bad. the character from head to toe is disfunctionally unhealthy
*edits for spelling*
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